Thoughts on Cell arc

[ABED]

The Cell arc has its issues, but the Buu arc is by far the worst arc. The Cell Games has Gohan's transformation going for it.

[Kuririn Fan]

The Cell arc has its issues, but the Buu arc is by far the worst arc. The Cell Games has Gohan's transformation going for it.

In your opinion...

[ABED]

The Cell arc has its issues, but the Buu arc is by far the worst arc. The Cell Games has Gohan's transformation going for it.

In your opinion...

Do these sorts of things need to be spelled out so as to not step on anyone's toes? Yes, in my opinion, it's the worst. Toriyama is making it all up as he goes along and it so evident when watching that arc. Buu's not a compelling or interesting villain, his transformations don't make much sense,
the humor too often undercuts the drama, and it's clear that Toriyama isn't quite sure who he wants to focus the story on.

[Kuririn Fan]

The Cell arc has its issues, but the Buu arc is by far the worst arc. The Cell Games has Gohan's transformation going for it.

In your opinion...

Do these sorts of things need to be spelled out so as to not step on anyone's toes? Yes, in my opinion, it's the worst. Toriyama is making it all up as he goes along and it so evident when watching that arc. Buu's not a compelling or interesting villain, his transformations don't make much sense,
the humor too often undercuts the drama, and it's clear that Toriyama isn't quite sure who he wants to focus the story on.

Ok, i really don't care and don't want to argue with you.

[ABED]

No one's arguing, at least not in a nasty manner.

[rereboy]

The Cell arc has its issues, but the Buu arc is by far the worst arc. The Cell Games has Gohan's transformation going for it.

That's precisely the weakest point. Gohan was used purely for drama effect, even going against his prior characterization. His entire fight and transformation relies completely on cheap shock, drama and emotional response that doesn't hold up to logical scrutiny and to his prior characterization, and it doesn't have anything else going for it (no decent choregraphy, no decent action, no show of real intelligence on Gohan's part, etc).

[ABED]

The Cell arc has its issues, but the Buu arc is by far the worst arc. The Cell Games has Gohan's transformation going for it.

That's precisely the weakest point. Gohan was used purely for drama effect, even going against his prior characterization. His entire fight and transformation relies completely on cheap shock, drama and emotional response that doesn't hold up to logical scrutiny and to his prior characterization, and it doesn't have anything else going for it (no decent choregraphy, no decent action, no show of real intelligence on Gohan's part, etc).

That wouldn't be the weakest point. The weakest points are the one sided fights. I'm well aware and have made the characterization arguments, but Gohan's transformation still works for me in spite of that. While yes, his not wanting to fight is out of character, him getting upset over needless destruction is in character. I disagree about the action, it's fine, not great, but still good. The Buu arc a handful of good moments, but it lacks any drama. Even if the shock and drama and emotional response are cheap, at least they are there. There aren't truly shocking moments in the Buu arc.

And even in spite of Gohan's hand being held, the Kamehameha struggle between Gohan and Cell is dramatic and cathartic. Buu's defeat? Not so much.

[Gorou]

The transformation in my opinion works perfectly, and is consistent with the character of Gohan, which is very sensitive to free acts of cruelty.
What doesn't work, for me, is the battle with Cell, which lacks of balance. Was the suitable opportunity to reintroduce tactic and old techniques (because Cell does not use kaioken? Goku does not use it only for the transformations, but Cell has no limit of this type). Works much better in the anime, because in the manga is reduced to four counted strokes.

Much better even the battle between kamehameha, in the anime.

[ABED]

It works, but it would've been more impactful had it someone he cared for instead of a complete stranger.

[Bansho64]

One of the things I can say is good about the Cell arc is the character designs. To me, everyone looked AMAZING. The muscles, hair, all of it. Especially those two because they kept the fluffy hair for one last arc and they kept everyone looking muscular but not too much. I like the way the kept the Saiyan's transformed hair wild and untamed. It's way better looking than the stringy mess we get later on.

[DonAce]

The Boo arc has a lot going for it. It has a lot of fun use of new characters, I particularly love Mister Satan and Gohan's super hero antics. There's a lot to say that could place it as the worst arc though, but overall it has a great sense of fun and I am particularly fond of the magical set up and villain rather than the sci-fi lite stuff of the cell arc, but that's subjective. Gohan's transformation seems to me to be a bit cheap because it feels like a repeat of Goku's transformation to a tee, so I really don't view that as a strong point of this arc at all. I think Mister Satan using his celebrity to get the people of earth to relinquish their ki is absolutely wonderful. I have a thing for pompous characters, and if Mister Satan wasn't such a pompous buffoon, they would have certainly not defeated Boo.

[ABED]

The best parts of the Buu arc are Mr. Satan and Vegeta's arc, but it's otherwise all over the place. Dragon Ball is always fun. This next comment isn't pointed at you, but it bugs me that now fun is seemingly limited to light hearted and comedic. Action packed can also be fun. Even dark films can be fun. Even at Dragon Ball's darkest, it's never really that dark.

it feels like a repeat of Goku's transformation to a tee

Super Saiyan arises because of intense anger and Gohan's power has always been dependent on anger.

[fadeddreams5]

I think the worst part about the Buu saga were Goten and Trunks. They undermined the SSJ legend, a large portion of the saga emphasized on the build up to their fusion, and what we ultimately got was an annoying character who undercut the drama (we had just gotten Super Buu!).

[DonAce]

Doesn't make it any less repetitive. And on some level I agree with you, but I picked the word fun for a reason. I don't really have a better term for it, because it really is just "fun". It isn't well structured, it doesn't really excel in its combat or drama, but it does have a specific sense of whimsy and having Toriyama be free from harsher editorial control. There may be a better term but I picked fun because it's what comes to mind. While I do enjoy darker and less comedic stuff, it doesn't really fit under the category of "fun".

[Saikyo no Senshi]

Both the Cell and Boo arcs have their fair share of problems but the humor in the latter makes it far more enjoyable IMO.

[Cipher]

It's one of the high points of playfully self-serious Dragon Ball from the time Trunks arrives to the discovery of Cell's time machine. Once Cell absorbs his first android, it becomes my least favorite portion of the series.

I'm not sure I can fully justify why, but I'll offer at least that we get a return of the same strength-one-upsmanship-as-narrative that dominates the second half of the Namek arc, but it lacks the former's urgency and novelty. There's nothing like Vegeta asking Kuririn to blast him in the gut in the middle of an unwinnable fight (and probably the most successfully sold as unwinnable in the entire series), so to speak. Nor anything as satisfying as Goku stepping in against Freeza. There isn't yet the absurdity of Boo--which, while I'm at it, also does a good job of incorporating that feeling of hectic urgency into its strength games.

The Cell arc just feels kind of dull. Your mileage may vary. There are a few character moments I really enjoy--Trunks blasting Vegeta after being goaded; Piccolo telling Goku off--but they're a bit too infrequent and out of focus. We get a very serious arc which isn't offering a whole lot that's interesting or new.

[ABED]

Doesn't make it any less repetitive. And on some level I agree with you, but I picked the word fun for a reason. I don't really have a better term for it, because it really is just "fun". It isn't well structured, it doesn't really excel in its combat or drama, but it does have a specific sense of whimsy and having Toriyama be free from harsher editorial control. There may be a better term but I picked fun because it's what comes to mind. While I do enjoy darker and less comedic stuff, it doesn't really fit under the category of "fun".

It still fits under fun if you find action to be fun. There's a lot of whimsy, and that's the problem, it's too whimsical. Whatever gain there is from the comedy is swamped by the comedy. It's a double edged sword. There are absolutely no stakes since the Dragon Balls can put things right, and the fight against Kid Buu loses its potency when Gohan doesn't even fight and he's the strongest fighter at that point. Then there's the ending which is awful.

And it's only repetitive insofar as anyone else turning Super Saiyan is repetitive.

but they're a bit too infrequent and out of focus. We get a very serious arc which isn't offering a whole lot that's interesting or new.

The entire Buu arc lacks focus, and while there's new stuff, it doesn't amount to much.

[Cipher]

The entire Buu arc lacks focus, and while there's new stuff, it doesn't amount to much.

Okay.

[TheDBZmaster100]

A poorly written arc that had an interest premise on paper but was completely,poorly executed. It was rife with haphazard characterisation and development (Vegeta being his worst and Gohan's out of character moment, that was not badass but sloppy writing that lead to a sadistic psychopath). The Jinzoningen for the most part were forgettable and I barely cared about them. They were also poorly implemented and hardly foreshadowed, perhaps if we had seen Dr Gero back in early DB I would be more accepting regarding this new concept.

R.O.S.A.T barely had any foreshadowing aswell.

Characters were underutilised such as the humans and the arc had too many instances of P.I.S/C.I.S (such as Vegeta's ego which was badly inflated and lead to the creation of Semi Perfect Cell, who happened to be a huge disappointment after the creation of Imperfect Cell).

I did like Future Trunks character arc and I hope that he does not return as it would be completely unnecessary. Just leave characters alone after their respective arcs have ended (Frieza's return was also stupid in ROF).

Overall ranking.. 4/10, should have ended the series after Frieza's death.

[ABED]

The entire Buu arc lacks focus, and while there's new stuff, it doesn't amount to much.

Okay.

What does that mean? Are you agreeing? Do you mean it ironically? You don't have to agree, I just ask that you contribute something of substance.

They were also poorly implemented and hardly foreshadowed

Not everything needs foreshadowing. They were the opening act, anyway. How would seeing Dr. Gero long before have helped?