Trunks vs King Cold

James R. Cadwell · Post by **James R. Cadwell** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 10:10 pm

PsyLiam wrote:In the way that the Star Wars novels are "official", but aren't "canon".

That was the way I had originally intended to explain it, but I thought the reference might be too obscure. I guess there are other people out there who are aware of that particular categorical nuance after all.

PsyLiam wrote:If we had to guess how strong a hypothetical fifth-form Freeza would be, we might as well use fifth-form Cooler as a guide.

I never saw the Cooler movies. How strong was he?

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 10:22 pm

Noooooo. Each form worked like this:

2nd form = roughly 2 X form 1
3rd form = roughly 3 X form 2
4th form = roughly 4 X frm 3

Sources: Form 1 was 530,000
Form 2 was "at least 1 million" (and it works! 530,000 X about 2 = 1 mil)
Form 3 we dunno, but if 1 mil X 3 works than it should be 3 mil
Form 4 was 12 mil, and it works if form 3 was 3 mil since 4 X 3 mil=12 mil

Therefore, fifth form would be 5 times form 4, or 5 times 12 mil = 60 mil

Concerning Cooler, I always figured he was weaker than Freeza since Goku only notes he's stronger than Freeza AFTER he transformed. Plus, Goku only used kaioken times 5 or 10 in movie 5 for some reason, and that was again, AFTER Cooler transformed.

Cooler could be only 7 million for all we know, but transformed would be only (5 X 7 mil = ) 35,000,000

Also, Goku was SEVERELY wounded. His PL could have been 50 million after the senzu. We dunno! Now make him SSJ! It's INSANITY! And NOT linear!

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 10:31 pm

Was the 12m 4th-form Freeza's power level just after he transformed, or when he went "100%"? For all we know, his other forms might have been at 50% of their maximum too.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 10:37 pm

12mil (or 12.5mil, I think it was) was his 'Full Power'. I think he was only at four mil after transforming.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 10:46 pm

4 mil was what Planet Namek said he was at for some reason. When he first transformed he was "barely using 50% of his power" (direct quote). If you go the way of Daizenshuu 7 they only give you 50% and 100% (6 mil and 12 mil). PN gave 33%, 50% 66% (since they hypothesized he'd need more than 50% to survive the genkidama) and 100%.

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 10:51 pm

Isn't it weird that his second and third forms would (presumably) be at 100% of their respective total powers, but he'd be at less than 50% of his forth form after transforming?

James R. Cadwell · Post by **James R. Cadwell** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 10:54 pm

PsyLiam wrote:Isn't it weird that his second and third forms would (presumably) be at 100% of their respective total powers, but he'd be at less than 50% of his forth form after transforming?

Freeza seemed to exhaust himself fairly quickly when he used 100% of his power in his final form, so I'd assume that it was a conscious decision to restrict his strength after he finished transforming.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 11:02 pm

And he'd also said somthing about not being able to 'contain' his full power. I think he was a little worried that going straight to his max would have killed him. He kind of needed to 'ease' into his power, give his body enough time to adjust.

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 11:08 pm

I never completely bought that "I become so powerful that I can't control myself" explanation for transformation. I always got the impression that he could have stayed in "thin" fourth form for as long as wanted. Which he pretty much would have, unless those cyborg components were also designed to change shape.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 11:14 pm

I agree that 'thin' 4th form Frieza would be sustainable without injury, but I was reffering to the dangers of FP 4th Frieza.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Wed Apr 28, 2004 4:26 am

I think more proof about #17 and #18 being stronger can be shown in the fact that Goku, Vegita, and the others trained like mad for 3 years and they still were no match for them. They didn't have any warning about them in the future timeline, so they didn't train, hence they weren't as strong and were defeated. It's likely safe to assume that if they had trained in the same way that they did in the present timeline, they would have been strong enough to defeat the #18 and #17 of Trunks' time.

Sun_Wukong · Post by **Sun_Wukong** » Wed Apr 28, 2004 10:35 am

I wouldve preferred The Z senshi to take on Freeza one at a time. During the battle royale, Trunks would have a stand off with King Kold. Trunks would go SSJ and Kold would transform at the same time. Trunks and Kold would fight to the death, and as soon as Trunks delivers the final blow to Kold, Goku shows up. He sees his friends loosing to Freeza, goes berserk, and powers up to SSJ on command. While Piccolo and Vegita tag team Freeza, Goku plows through Freeza's remaining henchmen. He tells Piccolo and Vegita to stand down. Goku is pretty much dominating Freeza untill Freeza creates his death ball. Trunks steps in and deflects his death ball. Goku and Trunks then do a Kamehamea/Masenko combo attack wich obliverates Freeza.

Seeing the anime's trend in lengths, this would probably end up as long as the horrid Garlic jr. saga.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Wed Apr 28, 2004 10:40 am

Sun_Wukong, I figure you don't realize this, but your avatar hasn't been showing up for the longest time.

Zackarotto · Post by **Zackarotto** » Wed Apr 28, 2004 11:20 am

Jerseymilk wrote:Sun_Wukong, I figure you don't realize this, but your avatar hasn't been showing up for the longest time.

Hey, you remembered. I guess you're slightly smarter than Rosette, Jersey-sama.

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Wed Apr 28, 2004 11:41 am

It has happened to almost everyone. Apart from me. Cause I rock.

James R. Cadwell · Post by **James R. Cadwell** » Wed Apr 28, 2004 12:01 pm

Jerseymilk wrote:I think more proof about #17 and #18 being stronger can be shown in the fact that Goku, Vegita, and the others trained like mad for 3 years and they still were no match for them.

How is that proof? Gohan trained for more than a decade and Trunks trained for over three years himself -- neither of them were able to defeat the "Artificial Humans" in the future.

Jerseymilk wrote:They didn't have any warning about them in the future timeline, so they didn't train, hence they weren't as strong and were defeated.

This is debatable. I can see the humans slacking off without any immediate threat to Earth, but what makes you think that Vegeta wouldn't have spent most of those three years training to surpass Goku? I got the impression that he wasn't really concerned about fighting the "Artificial Humans". His primary goal was to defeat Kakarotto, and his efforts towards that objective should have proceeded normally in the original timeline up until the point when Goku died of his illness.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Wed Apr 28, 2004 12:01 pm

Seeing the anime's trend in lengths, this would probably end up as long as the horrid Garlic jr. saga.

I liked the Garlic Jr. Saga in the same way I like the DBZ movies and DBGT. As a Fanime, since, that's basically what they all are.

Zackarotto · Post by **Zackarotto** » Wed Apr 28, 2004 1:55 pm

PsyLiam wrote:It has happened to almost everyone. Apart from me. Cause I rock.

That's because you never change your avatar, and aren't using Uploadit or whatever that unreliable garbage everyone uses is called.

What about me? Was there ever a time that my avatar didn't work, and you guys didn't tell me? Or... maybe you did, and I just forgot.

Beelz · Post by **Beelz** » Wed Apr 28, 2004 2:03 pm

I really enjoyed the Garlic Jr. movie. It gave a nice little bridge between the two series. I however did not enjoy the Garlic Jr. saga at all. I mean come on turning everyone into Vampires? I unfortunatlly have only seen the dub episodes and really have no desire to see them every again, but who knows maybe the original episodes are better. For my money however the Garlic Jr. saga is the lowest point in Toei's treatment of Dragon Ball.

Epsilon Grey · Post by **Epsilon Grey** » Wed Apr 28, 2004 2:32 pm

Any consensus as to why the Androids in the main timeline are stronger?

Perhaps it is simply the fact that not all timelines progress identically, even without temporal intermingling (time travelers). Maybe the Gero in the main timeline decided to use different parts, or something to that effect.

But, of course, they train like mad for years on end, only to still be weaker than 17 and 18, but the equivalent of one year in the Room of Spirit and Time is enough to make them, what, six times more powerful? (PL level)

Magic rooms rule.

--EG

Kanzenshuu

Trunks vs King Cold

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