Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[apex_pretador]

Beerus alone is strong enough to destroy the 7th Universe on his own, and if he was to fight with Champa, both 6th & 7th Universes would be destroyed. So, Zenno should be at least 12 times stronger than Beerus & Champa.

That's not how it works.For example, Saiyan Arc Vegeta can bust the earth,the solar system have around 8 planets.Does that mean Super Perfect Cell is only around 8x stronger than Saiyan Arc Vegeta ? Freeza in his 1st Form destroyed a planet 10x the density of Earth with ease.Does that mean he can destroy a Solar System in his Final Form ,who is way stronger than his First Form ? Destroying Planets,Solar Systems,Galaxy and Universe isn't just about "I can destroy 1 galaxy, meaning a guy 2x stronger than me can destroy 2 galaxy.".

• There are a lot of arguments which suppost that saiyan arc vegeta can't "bust" the earth.
• Destroying solar system means destroying the sun, which takes TRILLION TIMES the energy required to destroy earth.
• See above point for freeza. Final form freeza is not trillion times stronger than 1st form.
• The guy 2x stronger than galaxy buster can destroy 2 galaxies. Obviously, unless you take scouter system to measure "2x stronger."

[Cipher]

The white aura, that was conspicuous by its absence in the Champa Arc, but was there in RoF Arc and now in Episode 42 does not mean anything, when past debates have shown failure to have auras and such are direct proof of one or other claims?
At least provide us with your reasoning.

Wait, what?

They've been giving "white auras" to characters since ... the Saiyan arc, I think? It's always just been a visual shorthand for fighting more seriously. This is not a new thing in Super.

[Chiki]

The white aura, that was conspicuous by its absence in the Champa Arc, but was there in RoF Arc and now in Episode 42 does not mean anything, when past debates have shown failure to have auras and such are direct proof of one or other claims?
At least provide us with your reasoning.

Wait, what?

They've been giving "white auras" to characters since ... the Saiyan arc, I think? It's always just been a visual shorthand for fighting more seriously. This is not a new thing in Super.

Fighting more seriously in Base post BoG = using god ki or SSG power.

[Bullza]

At least provide us with your reasoning.

It's just something that has shown up at random times. There's nothing specific about it.

In the RoF movie when they were sparring with Whis they didn't have a white aura initially, it showed up later in that fight and then it disappeared again but they continued fighting. In the RoF arc it never appeared at all in that scene.

It was used when he fought Frieza but not when he fought Hit. Vegeta deflected shots from Frieza when he had no white aura.

When Goku and Vegeta are fighting on Whis' planet it's not there but when they fight in the ROSAT it is there, briefly.

It means nothing. It's no different from how sometimes the flaming red or blue aura is alongside the SSJG and SSJB form and then sometimes it isn't.

Really? Do you have video proof of this?

Nah I don't remember what episode it was even if it were said in the first place. I could just be thinking of when Hit powered up. I'm not sure. He was fibbing about powering up to full power so it could have just been for show.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

So? SSJ2 Vegeta made Beerus bleed in the movie and he wasn't close to him. In the manga he beat on him for a bit and then it turned out Beerus was unharmed. It's not all that different from that.

Beerus was holding back against Vegeta, which is why Vegeta got close to him with his power-up. There is no indication that base Goku was holding back against Assault Form Frost, and the next step of his power-up was turning into a Super Saiyan.

Well he isn't necessarily as strong as SSJG whether he'd absorbed the power or not. He isn't as strong as SSJG in Base in the Super anime so he likely isn't going to be in the Super manga either.

In the movies & the FnF manga, base Goku is as strong as SSG, there is no doubt about that.

[Khin]

• There are a lot of arguments which suppost that saiyan arc vegeta can't "bust" the earth.
• The guy 2x stronger than galaxy buster can destroy 2 galaxies. Obviously, unless you take scouter system to measure "2x stronger."

- What arguments ? A guidebook [Cant remember which one, probably daizenshuu] stated Vegeta's blast can destroy the earth.Goku's reaction supports this,Goku's wouldn't need to go x4 to counter it if couldn't destroy the earth since he can simply dodge it.
- Not really, the distances and sizes of the galaxies/solar systems can greatly vary the amount of energy needed.So even if a guy can generate twice the energy, it does't mean he can destroy 2 galaxies.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Did Base Goku flare an aura when he fought Hit? I can't remember.

[Khin]

Did Base Goku flare an aura when he fought Hit? I can't remember.

Nope.Which makes the two bases theory even more stupid because Goku fought a guy in his weakest state who destroyed SSB Vegeta.He said that Blue drains stamina a lot, so it makes sense for him to not use it right off the bat.But the other base ? I don't think there's an excuse.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Yeah, that's pretty much the standpoint I was coming from. I find it hard to believe he'd fight Hit with his weaker Base form and not his powerful one if there were really two Bases.

Plus the Whis training shows they don't always need an aura, anyway.

[Speedster]

Here is the latest super feat we had in Dragonball Super. Beerus ordered Goku to do 100 trillion situps. Also Goku after exactly 1 minute finished only to admit that in fact he just did 100 as he counted 1 trillion, 2 trillion, 3 trillion,… But let's say this was gag animation, right? Well Beerus said it should had taken Goku 3 million years to do 100 trillion sit ups. That is just 63 per minute. How lame. Even humans could do sit-ups at this pace (only issue would be stamina). We talked about lowballing but this is pathetic.

[Saiyan007]

Here is the latest super feat we had in Dragonball Super. Beerus ordered Goku to do 100 trillion situps. Also Goku after exactly 1 minute finished only to admit that in fact he just did 100 as he counted 1 trillion, 2 trillion, 3 trillion,… But let's say this was gag animation, right?

It was a gag scene,you could see Goku start to do his pushups at super speed.

Well Beerus said it should had taken Goku 3 million years to do 100 trillion sit ups. That is just 63 per minute. How lame. Even humans could do sit-ups at this pace (only issue would be stamina). We talked about lowballing but this is pathetic.

That can easily be chalked up to Goku being an idiot and taking him that long to count too that number,He's going to forget what number comes after a certain number and start from the beginning all over again.

You don't need to take this episode so seriously looking for feats it's a gag centric episode made for laughs

[Faisal Shourov]

Here is the latest super feat we had in Dragonball Super. Beerus ordered Goku to do 100 trillion situps. Also Goku after exactly 1 minute finished only to admit that in fact he just did 100 as he counted 1 trillion, 2 trillion, 3 trillion,… But let's say this was gag animation, right? Well Beerus said it should had taken Goku 3 million years to do 100 trillion sit ups. That is just 63 per minute. How lame. Even humans could do sit-ups at this pace (only issue would be stamina). We talked about lowballing but this is pathetic.

Over 50% of Dragon Ball Super is pure comedy, why are you taking it seriously?

[dbzfan7]

So we're getting Future Trunks and Goku Black. Can't wait to see how they make no sense either. It's pretty much a game now to see how looney things get. Anyway quick list.

Super Satan
Super Videl
Omni King
Omni King Attendants
Vados
Whis
Beerus
Champa
Goku/Vegeta
Hit
Psychic Chaozu
Cabba
Magetta (Has higher durability than Cabba)
Ultimate Baby Pan
Boo
Frost
Piccolo
Botamo
18
Krillin
Tenshinhan
Kitchen 18
Regular Chaozu
Yamcha
Chi Chi
Videl?

And that's everyone. Not missing anyone. And don't tell me about some made up Cohan. That person clearly doesn't exist. Next you'll say Hull Cogan is real.

[Bullza]

There is no indication that base Goku was holding back against Assault Form Frost

Then there's have been no need for the slow starter line. Frost beat on Goku for a while before he casually got back up, dusted himself off and said he was a slow starter. He clearly wasn't fighting seriously.

Not like how he was when he fought Hit in the anime anyway.

and the next step of his power-up was turning into a Super Saiyan.

That's because he said Frost was naughty and was holding back transformations and then Goku transformed himself to show him that he was doing the same thing. He didn't necessarily transform because he had to at that point.

In the movies & the FnF manga, base Goku is as strong as SSG, there is no doubt about that.

The Battle of Gods movie showed Base Goku to be as strong as 80% SSJG. It may not necessarily be the case in the RoF movie or the manga though.

[Speedster]

Over 50% of Dragon Ball Super is pure comedy, why are you taking it seriously?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2qMsyT662k

But that's my point actually. People should realise that attempting to put any logic in Dragonball (especially quantifying differences in strength) is more pointless than ever. It does whatever suits the plot. It will create tension, jokes or advance the plot by artificial means and that includes making the characters as strong or as weak, as clever or as stupid, as fast or as slow as they need to be to serve a particular scene.

But many people seems to think it is just isolated scenes and not story elements. Well let me give you an example outside power levels and feats. Isn't that ultra-convenient that from the entire freaking universe the delivery person who delivered "space food" to Bulma's house just happened to be Monaka? I mean what are the chances of this? And back in Dragonball how ultra-convenient was that 3 out of the 7 Dragonballs (that were scattered across the entire Earth) happened just by pure coincidence to be found by Roshi, Ox king and Gohan? - master and his former 2 students (and they just found the ball accidentally by the way).

When am I supposed to consider something seriously? What counts and what doesn't? (That is a rhetoric question by the way).
1. Was kid Goku pushing the giant boulder a gag? Because by the Buu arc a far stronger Goku can just lift 40 tonnes.
2. Was Taopaipai throwing a pillar and travelling 2400km in under 15mins a gag? Or is Gohan in the Buu arc flying 1000km in 20 minutes that counts? Or Goku traveling snakeway in a day?
3. Was Roshi destroying the moon a gag? Because in the more serious Piccolo Daimao arc a supposedly stronger Piccolo destroyed a city and remarked that in similar fashion he could destroy the world as if that was his best feat (that is still much smaller feat than you need to destroy the moon).
4. Is Goku invulnerable to bullets like we saw in chapter 1 when he got shot in the head by Bulma? Because a far more powerful and tougher Goku was in danger of getting killed by General Blue's gun.
5. What is the destructive capability of Goku's Kamehameha by the RRA arc? Apparently smaller than a simple bomb as Taopaipai got "killed" by one while he was unscratched by Goku's Kamehameha. A bomb that destroyed nothing else by the way. Or does area of effect apply to army bombs too?
6. How powerful is Tagoma? He can beat Piccolo who is supposedly stronger than Freeza. Yet after Tagoma flared up his ki it was said he surpassed the Ginyu force. Ginyu force?!! Not to mention Shisami (who was apparently below the Ginyu force) giving base Gohan trouble.
7. And am I supposed to believe that base Goku<Freeza by the BoG arc because Beerus implied so? The same Beerus who supposedly used 10% against Vegeta while being stronger than KKx10 SSB Goku? The same Beerus that says that post Champa arc base Goku can only do 63 sit ups per minute?

[ZombieVito]

So we're getting Future Trunks and Goku Black. Can't wait to see how they make no sense either. It's pretty much a game now to see how looney things get.

Serious question. What are the things that don't make sense?

I honestly see everything making sense as of right now.

[dbzfan7]

So we're getting Future Trunks and Goku Black. Can't wait to see how they make no sense either. It's pretty much a game now to see how looney things get.

Serious question. What are the things that don't make sense?

I honestly see everything making sense as of right now.

I'm not going to argue them because I've seen and been apart of the arguments. They all boil down to everyone's head canon smashing into each other until one skull wins, or the next episode changes the topic. I'll make it simple. If everything made sense and was very clear, there wouldn't be much arguments at all. Yet, all over, they spread like wild fire with each week adding something new to bash head canon's against.

[LightBing]

The anime has too many contradictions, power-wise, for me to accept it as an reliable source. I think delivering a show/spectacle is more important to them than consistency.

That's why I hope more people join my manga only power discussion. It doesn't have any problems, so far.

[Khin]

The only big contradiction the anime has done thus far is the 10% line.Other than that, i personally dont see any problem.Its just the that many things left unexplained that people have many different theories or placements of the characters.

[ZombieVito]

The only big contradiction the anime has done thus far is the 10% line.Other than that, i personally dont see any problem.Its just the that many things left unexplained that people have many different theories or placements of the characters.

I agree. That's the only one and it can easily be explained.