Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Khin]

I agree. That's the only one and it can easily be explained.

How would you explain it ? I personally think the line just make no sense whatsoever and just straight up ignore it. I just put Rageta good deal stronger than SS3 Goku, that way, it would make his rage boost not that ridiculous.

[Lord Beerus]

The only big contradiction the anime has done thus far is the 10% line.Other than that, i personally dont see any problem.Its just the that many things left unexplained that people have many different theories or placements of the characters.

I agree. That's the only one and it can easily be explained.

Yeah. The 10% line, given the how things have progressed in story after that point, throws everything out of wack. If that line didn't exist, power scaling in Super would make much more sense.

How would you explain it ? I personally think the line just make no sense whatsoever and just straight up ignore it. I just put Rageta good deal stronger than SS3 Goku, that way, it would make his rage boost not that ridiculous.

Beerus lying to Vegeta about using 10% of his power to tank SSJ2 Raging Vegeta's assault is the only way any of this makes sense and it's the only plausible theory I can come up with because it wouldn't be out of context if he lied to Vegeta considering he then lied to Goku about going all out against him in their battle to get SSJG Goku to fight at him at his strongest and then lied again about Monaka being the second strongest person he's fought and really only brought him onto the team to motivate Goku and Vegeta.

[buutenks]

After seeing ep 42, saw it a few moments ago, i dont see how one can say base goku is ssj3 tier. Beerus says he wants to finish it quickly and powers up, plus whis stops them saying if they want to destroy the earth.

Beerus was finger flicking ssj3 goku without even powering up, yet he powers up vs base goku and even whis is needed to step in to prevent earth from being destroyed.

[LightBing]

I guess only the 10% line is a pure contradiction. The others have some flexibility. I still can't accept Piccolo who was supposed to be weaker than Frost, defending his attacks with one hand, while charging an attack in the other. Doesn't make sense to me.

[ZombieVito]

I agree. That's the only one and it can easily be explained.

How would you explain it ? I personally think the line just make no sense whatsoever and just straight up ignore it. I just put Rageta good deal stronger than SS3 Goku, that way, it would make his rage boost not that ridiculous.

- Beerus used more power that he needed to.
- Vegeta's Galick Gun was very powerful with a big multiplier.
- Vegeta tapped into is SSG power for a short while and became 1/6 as powerful as Goku.
- Beerus lied.

Take your pick. It's really not a serious issue.

Serious issues should be like Yamcha beating Olibu or what ever he is called in the Boo arc filler. Now that's impossible to explain.

[Lord Beerus]

I guess only the 10% line is a pure contradiction. The others have some flexibility. I still can't accept Piccolo who was supposed to be weaker than Frost, defending his attacks with one hand, while charging an attack in the other. Doesn't make sense to me.

Frost was very fatigued after getting his ass kicked by SSJ Goku and when Goku stated that Piccolo stood no chance against Frost, he didn't take that into consideration.

[LightBing]

I guess only the 10% line is a pure contradiction. The others have some flexibility. I still can't accept Piccolo who was supposed to be weaker than Frost, defending his attacks with one hand, while charging an attack in the other. Doesn't make sense to me.

Frost was very fatigued after getting his ass kicked by SSJ Goku and when Goku stated that Piccolo stood no chance against Frost, he didn't take that into consideration.

But Piccolo reinforced Goku's statement, even asking for Frost to power down a form. He claimed people were underestimating him, which originated for the lack of thought towards is tactics and intelligence to overcame the situation.

[ZombieVito]

Frost was very tired. Being tired just doesn't decrease your power but also your speed and reflexes. That's the reason I think he never went to chase Piccolo, instead he just blasted him from the ground.

[Lord Beerus]

I guess only the 10% line is a pure contradiction. The others have some flexibility. I still can't accept Piccolo who was supposed to be weaker than Frost, defending his attacks with one hand, while charging an attack in the other. Doesn't make sense to me.

Frost was very fatigued after getting his ass kicked by SSJ Goku and when Goku stated that Piccolo stood no chance against Frost, he didn't take that into consideration.

But Piccolo reinforced Goku's statement, even asking for Frost to power down a form. He claimed people were underestimating him, which originated for the lack of thought towards is tactics and intelligence to overcame the situation.

Perhaps Frost got even more exhausted on top of being already very fatigued from constantly chasing Piccolo's clones and fire several ki blast only for Piccolo to dodge them. And when Frost decided to take a more hands on approach, his BP had dropped considerably as his stamina dropped to nearly rock bottom.

[ssbgoku]

Changing topic a bit. I have just rewatched return of frieeza in dragon ball super anime and here with what I came up with ;p.

- Picoolo and base gohan got certainly and sadly much weaker then in buu arc as both had trouble with ginyuu using tagoma's body who was only noted to suprass ginyuu's level
so I will say tagoma was only final form frieeza at 2% and here I am being generous.
- Picoolo is indeed below base Saiyan, it shows actually how much he got weaker same with base gohan. At the best Picoolo would be 100% final form frieeza from namek.
- Ssj gohan is at the best equal to his mssj kid version.
- First form frieeza was laughed by gotenks and also ssj gohan intrigued frieeza a bit so ff frieeza is at the least Semi Perfect Cell and at the best Perfect Cell.
- Second form frieeza scaled off would be only ssj2 kid gohan or super perfect cell
- Third form frieeza is Mr Buu tier or a bit stronger
- Final form frieeza is ssj3 tier, base goku being ssj3 tier is not farfetched.

Also last episode I label it as gag episode so beerus can scream and power up as much he wants I just can not take it seriously. Especially goku being content with monaca being stronger then him in his only base state, not even ssj, not even mentioning ssb...

This way Picoolo improving much and base gohan being retrained from scratch makes much more sense. Picoolo and gohan would be only as strong as imperfect cell or below. While ssj gohan would be at the most ssj2 kid gohan's level. This way combatans from universe 6 don't need to be so ridiculous overpowered.

[Khin]

Picoolo and base gohan got certainly and sadly much weaker then in buu arc as both had trouble with ginyuu using tagoma's body who was only noted to suprass ginyuu's level

Sorbet checked Tagoma's battle power before Tagoma powered up. Piccolo and Base Gohan being only around Ginyu tier makes no sense whatsoever.

[ssbgoku]

Picoolo and base gohan got certainly and sadly much weaker then in buu arc as both had trouble with ginyuu using tagoma's body who was only noted to suprass ginyuu's level

Sorbet checked Tagoma's battle power before Tagoma powered up. Saying Piccolo and Base Gohan is only around Ginyu tier makes no sense whatsoever.

Even then beerus noted base goku to be be below final form frieeza and base gohan is certainly weaker then that as he neglected training for long time. Picoolo may be only a bit stronger then base gohan as shown against tagoma. I still believe neither Picoolo or gohan could beat base goku from bog at this point.

Of course I am only talking about rof, later they trained for 8 months so I can see Picoolo in range from mss goku cell arc to perfect cell at the most

[Khin]

Even then beerus noted base goku to be be below nake final form frieeza and base gohan is certainly weaker then that as he neglected training for long time. Picoolo may be only a bit stronger then base gohan. I still believe neither Picoolo or gohan could beat base goku from bog at this point.

For a long time ? Its been only around 6 months to 6 years since Boo Arc, are you saying that Gohan lost power more than he lost between Cell and Boo Arc ? Piccolo being below Namek Freeza is ridiculous , that's like saying Piccolo got over 10x weaker for no reason whatsoever.

[ssbgoku]

Even then beerus noted base goku to be be below nake final form frieeza and base gohan is certainly weaker then that as he neglected training for long time. Picoolo may be only a bit stronger then base gohan. I still believe neither Picoolo or gohan could beat base goku from bog at this point.

For a long time ? Its been only around 6 months to 6 years since Boo Arc, are you saying that Gohan lost power more than he lost between Cell and Boo Arc ? Piccolo being below Namek Freeza is ridiculous.

It could be but it was presented and shown as that wether it was thought out and suppoused to be or not I take it as I see it. Picoolo and gohan having train for 8 months and retraining gohan from scratch definitetly would make much more sense this way. Also Picoolo catching up and even suprassing his strongest peak yet. Tagoma was never compared to cell or even frieeza before he trained this way I can only believe he would be below final form namek frieeza for sure. Pushing it really far I can say namek ssj goku would beat Picoolo or base gohan with hard diff.

EDIT: The only defense in gohan's case would be Replying to Bulma's question about kicking frieeza's ass and gohan replied that it would be done if frieeza was same. However first gohan could include ssj in estimationa and also frieeza was only in his first form anyway. Besides that I also believes ssj gotenks dropped to fat buu level as both trunks and goten have neglecting training a long so yes I can see them dropping in power.

[Khin]

It could be but it was presented and shown as that wether it was thought out and suppoused to be or not I take it as I see it. Picoolo and gohan having train for 8 months and retraining gohan from scratch definitetly would make much more sense this way. Also Picoolo catching up and even suprassing his strongest peak yet. Tagoma was never compared to cell or even frieeza before he trained this way I can only believe he would be below final form namek frieeza for sure. Pushing it really far I can say namek ssj goku would beat Picoolo or base gohan with hard diff.

He's training from scratch because he become way weaker than his Ultimate state, probably lost the state but kept some power. And why would it matter if Tagoma wasn't compared to Cell ? Beerus was never compared to Kid Buu, so Beerus is weaker than Kid Buu now ?

[singsing]

After seeing ep 42, saw it a few moments ago, i dont see how one can say base goku is ssj3 tier. Beerus says he wants to finish it quickly and powers up, plus whis stops them saying if they want to destroy the earth.

Beerus was finger flicking ssj3 goku without even powering up, yet he powers up vs base goku and even whis is needed to step in to prevent earth from being destroyed.

I mean they've been threatening planets since the Saiyan arc and there's no one else readily available at SSJ3 tier besides Vegeta. "Only SSJ3 tier" doesn't make much sense, because while there are characters WAY above that now, they are few and far in between and basically the entire Z cast besides Goku and Vegeta powered up are below it.

[Noah]

Beerus lying to Vegeta about using 10% of his power to tank SSJ2 Raging Vegeta's assault is the only way any of this makes sense and it's the only plausible theory I can come up with because it wouldn't be out of context if he lied to Vegeta considering he then lied to Goku about going all out against him in their battle to get SSJG Goku to fight at him at his strongest and then lied again about Monaka being the second strongest person he's fought and really only brought him onto the team to motivate Goku and Vegeta.

So basically to everything in Super have sense we just need to accept Beerus as one big fat liar?

[Lord Beerus]

Beerus lying to Vegeta about using 10% of his power to tank SSJ2 Raging Vegeta's assault is the only way any of this makes sense and it's the only plausible theory I can come up with because it wouldn't be out of context if he lied to Vegeta considering he then lied to Goku about going all out against him in their battle to get SSJG Goku to fight at him at his strongest and then lied again about Monaka being the second strongest person he's fought and really only brought him onto the team to motivate Goku and Vegeta.

So basically to everything in Super have sense we just need to accept Beerus as one big fat liar?

Yes. But Beerus has turned into a bit of habitual liar in Super, so it's really not out of context if he fibbed about using 10% of his power against SSJ2 Rageta.

[LightBing]

So Beerus lied to himself? What would be the point in the narrative for that? I must highlight that all other Beerus lies were uncovered, their intentions cleared up.

Regarding the points made regarding Piccolo vs Frost some posts ago, I can see those being possibilities.They do make sense and are valid explanations for it. But I disagree with them, for me it doesn't fit with what were told. Agree to disagree.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

No way Gohan and Piccolo have weakened to Namek saga levels. That makes less sense than ridiculous gains people dislike.

Base Gohan being stronger than Piccolo just shows he differs from BoG Goku, who's weaker than Freeza.

With the way the kids reacted to Tagoma's Chi, I'm fine with with him being around some form of Majin Boo.