Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
Me and my friend were debating stuff like we always do, and we were debating how strong Muten Roshi is in DBS. I personally believe he is weaker than in the original DB. I was wondering what the opinions of others were.
My reasoning: When Muten Roshi(Jackie Chun) was fighting Gokuu in the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai, he had to shoot a max power Kamehameha Wave to destroy the moon and stop Gokuu from rampaging. He was then able to continue fighting and ultimately won. In DBS he shot one max power Kamehameha Wave, killed a few soldiers, and was not able to battle any longer. We can also see that Gohan got much weaker after not training for all these years, and now needs to be trained by Piccolo. I believe it is safe to assume that Muten Roshi hasn't been training either.
My friend's reasoning: Freeza states in DBS that the soldiers are second class, and my friend takes that to believe Ginyu Force level. (???) I believe they are Sorbet's 2nd class soldiers, and not 2nd class to Freeza. My friend also tells me that Toriyama himself said that Muten Roshi could be on the same level as Kururin (who at the time had the power level of 75,000?) if he wanted to. Which I take to believe that if Muten Roshi trained he could be on that level.
Freeza's Elite pretty much hitman squad being the Ginyu Force had Ginyu himself topping out at 120,000, Jeice, Recoome, and Burter were all in the neighborhood of 40,000, and Guldo significantly weaker. Freeza's "standard" right and left hand men being Zarbon and Dodoria were only in the 20,000's themselves and Sorbet held the two of them in quite high regard. Cui is the next strongest of his men that we are shown and is supposed to be equal to Vegeta at the time putting him at around 18,000. Other than that as far as I can recall all of his men otherwise were either in the hundreds or at best perhaps 1,500- 2,000. They laughed at the 3 Namekian warriors who arrived with power suppressed to a "measly" 1,000, but as soon as they shot up to 3,000 they dominated Freeza's men. I could perhaps see Roshi taking on Raditz.
His performance against Freeza's men in Super seems to imply that he got significantly stronger than he was on Dragon Ball since he is able to handle Freeza's men who, going by the level of Freeza's men on Namek, should be around 700 to 2000 in power level. That puts him around Radditz level, which is a much stronger level than he was on early Dragon Ball.
Thanks everyone for clarifying. I just don't understand why Roshi could not fight anymore after only one Kamehameha Wave. Maybe he's gotten stronger, but his body isn't trained enough for to use all that energy and keep going on? I'm not sure.
ShaneisMC wrote: I could perhaps see Roshi taking on Raditz.
I think the last time Roshi was relevant was in Movie 2 against the Bio-men, basically just like Saibamen. He put up a fight I guess but got beat by Wheelo's minions. So I would say he could not beat Raditz.
I think there was a comment from Toriyama in an interview saying that Roshi could have been as strong as he was in RoF all along if he had really put effort into it. So based on that I'd say he's stronger than he ever was before. By how much is another question, but if I had to guess I'd say his PL is maybe 1000 - 3000.
Whilst it is true that his appearance in RoF came with quotes from Toriyama that implied that he had been training, and was indeed stronger than before, it's also worth mentioning that the composition of Freeza's army was stated as being a total hodgepodge.
The idea of the horde was to provide all of the players a chance to have a little fight - from down at Jaco's level all the way up to Piccolo. As such, I don't think we need to read too much into it - comparisons to Raditz are a little verbose. There was clearly a little bit of moving things around for plot convenience, but I think we need to be careful about not getting carried away.
'Multiculturalism means nothing in Japan, for every outside culture must pass first through the Japanese filter, rendering it entirely Japanese in the process.' - Julian Cope.
I'd say he sits somewhere between Nappa and post-King Kai training Goku.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
