Do we expect too much from Super?

[Faisal Shourov]

I wouldn't even compare Dragon Ball as a whole to Hunter x Hunter since it's considered one of the best shonen series. Dragon Ball as a series dropped in quality after Namek (the Cell arc especially was not that great).

As for Super it's not terrible but it's not very good either. Overall I would probably rate it 5.5 out of 10 and it would probably be above GT in my opnion (although I think ROF was one of the worst things this franchise has produced).

Did people expect too much from this series? Definitely you just have to look at the products that came after DBZ e.g. GT, DB Minus, ROF movie and now Super. The only product I can actually say was really good was the BOG movie but I accepted the fact that we are not going to get something of quality like the Saiyan Saga again which is where the series peaked for me.

People are disappointed that their expectations and the hype the series had were not met. I never really held any high expectations for this series so I'm not as disappointed. Super has had it's fair share of some good moments but overall it's been mediocre.

To be honest, only reason I am still watching Super is because of nostalgia (DBZ was my first anime). You might say I am spoiled, but with so many better anime out there that Super isn't even worth watching, let alone comment on.

I dislike GT more but I can't forgive Super for its trash art and animation in 2016.

[TekTheNinja]

Nope. I my expectations for Super were that it would at least be as good as GT, which was a really low bar, but Super basically just limboed under said metaphorical bar, as if it were actively trying to be even worse than GT. The only episode I actually really enjoyed was episode 39, but after that they decided to immediately make everything lame again, as if to say, "That's what you should have had this whole time, but instead here's more bullshit."

And I wouldn't mind the comedy episodes if Super actually had good comedy, but It really doesn't. The unintentionally bad animation in the Goku vs Frieza fight is what made me laugh the most. Congrats guys, you made a supposedly serious situation funny because you decided to rush out an episode every week to meet a quota instead of taking your time and actually making a quality product.

[Overlord78]

I wouldn't even compare Dragon Ball as a whole to Hunter x Hunter since it's considered one of the best shonen series. Dragon Ball as a series dropped in quality after Namek (the Cell arc especially was not that great).

As for Super it's not terrible but it's not very good either. Overall I would probably rate it 5.5 out of 10 and it would probably be above GT in my opnion (although I think ROF was one of the worst things this franchise has produced).

Did people expect too much from this series? Definitely you just have to look at the products that came after DBZ e.g. GT, DB Minus, ROF movie and now Super. The only product I can actually say was really good was the BOG movie but I accepted the fact that we are not going to get something of quality like the Saiyan Saga again which is where the series peaked for me.

People are disappointed that their expectations and the hype the series had were not met. I never really held any high expectations for this series so I'm not as disappointed. Super has had it's fair share of some good moments but overall it's been mediocre.

To be honest, only reason I am still watching Super is because of nostalgia (DBZ was my first anime). You might say I am spoiled, but with so many better anime out there that Super isn't even worth watching, let alone comment on.

I dislike GT more but I can't forgive Super for its trash art and animation in 2016.

There are plenty of anime better than Super and there are plenty of anime that are worse than it. Although you're not alone in watching Super because of nostalgia. It's pretty clear it's intended for a younger audience and maybe I just can't enjoy it as much as I used too. A few years ago the Cell arc was one of my favourite arcs, now I think it's one of the worst.

The BOG arc for the most part was fairly consistent with it's art (not animation since i think episode 14 is the only one that has good animation with it's fight ) except for episodes like 5 & 12. I thought the arc overall was ok for a rehash and the Goku vs Beerus fight was decent except that it dragged on a bit too much. But the ROF arc was absolutely atrocious for the most part with it's art and animation, especially with the Goku vs Freeza fight.

[DragonHermit]

There are plenty of anime better than Super and there are plenty of anime that worse than it. Although you're not alone in watching Super because of nostalgia. It's pretty clear it's intended for a younger audience and maybe I just can't enjoy it as much as I used too. A few years ago the Cell arc was one of my favourite arcs, now I think it's one of the worst.

It's ridiculous how people hold DBZ to such a high std, even to someone like me that considers it the #1 anime above HxH11 (ok maybe I like OP a bit more ). It was from perfect and it had many of the same problems people are complaining about.

Inconsistent animation, massive plot holes, contradicting power scaling? B**** that IS dragonball. You can make the argument that these problems are much worse in Super, and I agree. But don't sit there saying this shit was never a big problem before. Or complaining that Mystic Gohan was badass and now he's useless. Umm ...Mystic Gohan WAS USELESS and it was a complete waste. It's clear that a lot of people have Dragon Ball fatigue, and don't even want a sequel. Imagine if they continued FMAB, how much people would complain about every stupid thing. And complaining about this stuff is fine as long, as the qualities of DB/DBZ are not exaggerated. DBZ strength never lied in great animation or attention to detail, but in it's originality of plot and world building. That's what was best about Saiyan/Namek/Trunks Saga.

My favourite part about Super, is what DBZ' strength was: world building. The whole 12 universes intrigues the hell out of me. If it doesn't to others I can understand. It just irritates the hell me out when people say Super is shit because of the same crap that DBZ suffered from, but DBZ is somehow the greatest show and Super trash.

[Faisal Shourov]

It just irritates the hell me out when people say Super is shit because of the same crap that DBZ suffered from, but DBZ is somehow the greatest show and Super trash.

Dragon Ball is the pioneer of modern shonen anime. All mainstream shonen today like Bleach, Naruto, One Piece, Hunter x Hunter are explicitly said to be inspired by Dragon Ball (you can find the interviews where all mangaka say they are inspired by Toriyama). It was the highest selling manga of all time before One Piece came, it basically introduced much of the modern anime tropes (which we make fun of today because of being cliche and overused). Dragon Ball the only anime that was able to become a mainstream show worldwide to a diverse age demographic (pokemon anime was limited upto 12 and under). DBZ might seem outdated now but it was the benchmark for a long time. You can't compare a trend setter to Dragon Ball Super.

[PsionicWarrior]

It just irritates the hell me out when people say Super is shit because of the same crap that DBZ suffered from, but DBZ is somehow the greatest show and Super trash.

Well, DBZ didn't suffer from sub-par animations, in fact it was the best back in the days, arcs were longer allowing atmosphere to build up more and get you hooked, I think what is Super's main issue is the cash-grab when the franchise clearly deserves better.
I do enjoy Super despite everything, but still it is quite sad.

[Overlord78]

It just irritates the hell me out when people say Super is shit because of the same crap that DBZ suffered from, but DBZ is somehow the greatest show and Super trash.

Dragon Ball is the pioneer of modern shonen anime. All mainstream shonen today like Bleach, Naruto, One Piece, Hunter x Hunter are explicitly said to be inspired by Dragon Ball (you can find the interviews where all mangaka say they are inspired by Toriyama). It was the highest selling manga of all time before One Piece came, it basically introduced much of the modern anime tropes (which we make fun of today because of being cliche and overused). Dragon Ball the only anime that was able to become a mainstream show worldwide to a diverse age demographic (pokemon anime was limited upto 12 and under). DBZ might seem outdated now but it was the benchmark for a long time. You can't compare a trend setter to Dragon Ball Super.

Dragon Ball Z was the pioneer but that doesn't mean it's the better series. Dragon Ball part 1 in my opinion is better overall than DBZ even though it's not as popular. Shows like HxH and One Piece which are inspired by Dragon Ball I think are better series overall even though I still like Dragon Ball. DBZ also had less competition back then compared to today. Imagine if it got released in 2016 for the first time, would the show still be held in such a high regard as it is now or would it lessen? I had a better experience reading Dragon Ball than watching it but that's just me. Regardless Z is a better series for me than Super and whilst Super has been worse in these regards DBZ has always had problems with inconsistencies, power scaling and sometimes sub-par animation/ art (not as bad as DBS episode 5 though).

[Saikyo no Senshi]

Dragon Ball Z was the pioneer but that doesn't mean it's the better series. Dragon Ball part 1 in my opinion is better overall than DBZ even though it's not as popular. Shows like HxH and One Piece which are inspired by Dragon Ball I think are better series overall even though I still like Dragon Ball. DBZ also had less competition back then compared to today. Imagine if it got released in 2016 for the first time, would the show still be held in such a high regard as it is now or would it lessen? I had a better experience reading Dragon Ball than watching it but that's just me. Regardless Z is a better series for me than Super and whilst Super has been worse in these regards DBZ has always had problems with inconsistencies, power scaling and sometimes sub-par animation/ art (not as bad as DBS episode 5 though).

DB and DBZ are not 2 different shows they are the same.

- Travis

[FoolsGil]

If wanting to have well thought out tournaments with crazy action battles is asking too much from Super, then yeah, I expected too much.

[Lord Beerus]

Well, DBZ didn't suffer from sub-par animations, in fact it was the best back in the days.

Not the case at all. Dragon Ball Z was terribly inconsistent in terms of animation and art-style and Dragon Ball Kai horribly exposed that. DBZ was also far from being the best back in its day. I could name ten shows off of the top of my head that were better than DBZ in the same era in nearly every department.

[Basaku]

There are plenty of anime better than Super and there are plenty of anime that worse than it. Although you're not alone in watching Super because of nostalgia. It's pretty clear it's intended for a younger audience and maybe I just can't enjoy it as much as I used too. A few years ago the Cell arc was one of my favourite arcs, now I think it's one of the worst.

It's ridiculous how people hold DBZ to such a high std, even to someone like me that considers it the #1 anime above HxH11 (ok maybe I like OP a bit more ). It was from perfect and it had many of the same problems people are complaining about.

Inconsistent animation, massive plot holes, contradicting power scaling? B**** that IS dragonball. You can make the argument that these problems are much worse in Super, and I agree. But don't sit there saying this shit was never a big problem before. Or complaining that Mystic Gohan was badass and now he's useless. Umm ...Mystic Gohan WAS USELESS and it was a complete waste. It's clear that a lot of people have Dragon Ball fatigue, and don't even want a sequel. Imagine if they continued FMAB, how much people would complain about every stupid thing. And complaining about this stuff is fine as long, as the qualities of DB/DBZ are not exaggerated. DBZ strength never lied in great animation or attention to detail, but in it's originality of plot and world building. That's what was best about Saiyan/Namek/Trunks Saga.

My favourite part about Super, is what DBZ' strength was: world building. The whole 12 universes intrigues the hell out of me. If it doesn't to others I can understand. It just irritates the hell me out when people say Super is shit because of the same crap that DBZ suffered from, but DBZ is somehow the greatest show and Super trash.

You're completly dismissing all the issues in Super that Z didn't suffer from. Over-reliance on Goku/Vegeta constantly monopolising the screentime, attention, plot, themes, transformations etc. Cutting off the coupons, lazy fanservice and playing DBZ nostalgia card way too often under the assumption that fans will be content with mediocre as long as there's a wink wink reference or throwback to the "good 'ol days". Poorly exectued pace, structure and balance of the plot. Lack of proper buildup. Majority of non-fighting cast relegated to slapstick jokes, non-speaking cameos. Lack of character developement. Etc. Etc. Thing started getting better in Champa arc, but we're far FAR away from the peak of Z.

Rememeber when Krillin and Gohan would drive the plot of the Namek's race for the Dragon Balls across dozens of episodes while Goku was absent or only shown briefly doing some boring stuff on ship? Future Trunks and Gohan recieving extensive screentime in Cell saga, Krillin/18 romance subplot changing the course of action without even having anything to do with fighting. Twists and turns, suspense, stakes, build-up, well utilized ensemble cast is what made Saiyan/Freeza saga and Cell saga so memorable. With all the executive meddling and tight schedule, Toriyama was still able to exectue a very solid action saga with great cast that would keep you watching pulled in chair with anticipation. Animation mistakes and small plotholes/BS power scaling didn't matter much when overall quality in the most important aspect (story, characters) was as good as it was.

The world building has definitely been one of the strongest parts of Super, much better than what we got in Buu sage. New characters are good too, ranging from decent to great without any major mistakes so far. But other aspects key to cast and story base of the show have been severly lacking. Can only hope things improve in new arc

[coola]

I think problem is with time and rushed job, Season 3 of Sailor Moon Crystal looks fantastic in my opinion, it might be result of talented animators and director, as from what i heard, they started to work on it since February after Go Princess Precure ended

[DragonHermit]

The world building has definitely been one of the strongest parts of Super, much better than what we got in Buu sage. New characters are good too, ranging from decent to great without any major mistakes so far. But other aspects key to cast and story base of the show have been severly lacking. Can only hope things improve in new arc

I don't want to get into an argument about everything you listed (especially about pace ), but people are missing the whole point of DB anime. It's never meant to be the most philosophical, plot hole-free, with massive attention to detail, and state of the art animation show. It was never that show, and it will never be. It's stuff both series suffer from and saying Super is shit because of that while conveniently ignoring those problems in Z, is just nostalgia bias. I mean we had people from different galaxies speaking the same language as each other in Z ffs.

DB was/is great because of 1) world building and originality of plot 2) fights 3) humour. If Super doesn't convince people of those things, I can respect that. But making DBZ this philosophical, plot-hole free, 15,000 frame per second animation masterpiece is b.s.

[JulieYBM]

No film uses 15,000 frames per second. That number is for theentire film.

[Basaku]

I don't want to get into an argument about everything you listed (especially about pace ), but people are missing the whole point of DB anime. It's never meant to be the most philosophical, plot hole-free, with massive attention to detail, and state of the art animation show. It was never that show, and it will never be. It's stuff both series suffer from and saying Super is shit because of that while conveniently ignoring those problems in Z, is just nostalgia bias. I mean we had people from different galaxies speaking the same language as each other in Z ffs.

DB was/is great because of 1) world building and originality of plot 2) fights 3) humour. If Super doesn't convince people of those things, I can respect that. But making DBZ this philosophical, plot-hole free, 15,000 frame per second animation masterpiece is b.s.

Not being an Oscar-contender doesn't excuse Transformers from having awful writing and being weak action movies. Just because Dragon Ball doesn't aim for philosophical anime-arthouse level it doesn't give it a license to half-ass everything. It's a disservice to those who also make commercial action movies/anime but still put in effort to make them the best possible, within their respective genre.

[Hellspawn28]

I think problem is with time and rushed job, Season 3 of Sailor Moon Crystal looks fantastic in my opinion, it might be result of talented animators and director, as from what i heard, they started to work on it since February after Go Princess Precure ended

The retellings of BOG and ROF did felt rush. However I feel like the Champa saga was a big improvement both story and animation wise. I don't think we had really awful looking episode in a while similar to Episode 5.

[Kuririn Fan]

I think problem is with time and rushed job, Season 3 of Sailor Moon Crystal looks fantastic in my opinion, it might be result of talented animators and director, as from what i heard, they started to work on it since February after Go Princess Precure ended

The retellings of BOG and ROF did felt rush. However I feel like the Champa saga was a big improvement both story and animation wise. I don't think we had really awful looking episode in a while similar to Episode 5.

Episode 24 was pretty goddamn awful.

[Hellspawn28]

Episode of 24 was from the ROF retelling. The Champa saga has better animation. Sure some of it did a bit off, but still look better than episode 5 and 24 did in my opinion.

[Lord Beerus]

I think problem is with time and rushed job, Season 3 of Sailor Moon Crystal looks fantastic in my opinion, it might be result of talented animators and director, as from what i heard, they started to work on it since February after Go Princess Precure ended

The retellings of BOG and ROF did felt rush. However I feel like the Champa saga was a big improvement both story and animation wise. I don't think we had really awful looking episode in a while similar to Episode 5.

Episode 24 was pretty goddamn awful.

And the first half of Episode 33 was kinda bad.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

It just irritates the hell me out when people say Super is shit because of the same crap that DBZ suffered from, but DBZ is somehow the greatest show and Super trash.

Dragon Ball is the pioneer of modern shonen anime. All mainstream shonen today like Bleach, Naruto, One Piece, Hunter x Hunter are explicitly said to be inspired by Dragon Ball (you can find the interviews where all mangaka say they are inspired by Toriyama). It was the highest selling manga of all time before One Piece came, it basically introduced much of the modern anime tropes (which we make fun of today because of being cliche and overused). Dragon Ball the only anime that was able to become a mainstream show worldwide to a diverse age demographic (pokemon anime was limited upto 12 and under). DBZ might seem outdated now but it was the benchmark for a long time. You can't compare a trend setter to Dragon Ball Super.

But it is very disappointing when Anime inspired by DB, do these tropes better than the original that still fails to modernize what they expanded on. Super barely lives up to the bar that was raised by the inspiration. I don't give modern DB credit just because the original series started the shounen tropes.