Would you like a story arc about an internal dispute?

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Would you like a story arc about an internal dispute?

Post by Doctor. » Thu May 12, 2016 8:46 am

Ever since I saw Civil War, I've been wondering about how this kind of story could work in Dragon Ball. Let's imagine that after Goku goes missing for some reason, some members of the group start doubting Vegeta's loyalty again and think his power needs to be put on check. Or maybe after some big fight where Goku does something careless that puts everyone in danger again, they finally had enough and split into two groups, the ones who support him, the ones who think he's a menace. Something like that, a reason to divide the group into two (or more) parties. I think this would be a great way to explore character dynamics and character relationships beyond just "they're all friends and like each-other". It would allow for character development for characters who get low screentime. For example, imagine Gohan and Trunks choose a different side, this could help develop Goten as he struggles to pick a side. Or Vegeta chooses a side Trunks doesn't agree with, he has to struggle between choosing the same side and losing his identity or making a decision by himself.

Would you like this kind of story in Dragon Ball? How do you think it could work?

Now I kinda wanna write it myself, because I know this isn't the type of story Toriyama will ever write.

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Re: Would you like a story arc about an internal dispute?

Post by ekrolo2 » Thu May 12, 2016 9:08 am

Going by how you put it, you'd probably run into the same problem as Civil War the movie: Goku's team has no real valid standing and thus would come off as just reckless jerk offs wanting to stay reckless jerk offs.

However, in a world where the characters got all their ass pulls taken away and a catastrophe hit the Earth that they can't magically reverse, I could see a situation where the Earth government would finally say enough is enough and get these alien freaks under control.

I imagine characters like Gohan, Krillin, Bulma who've been shown valuing things beyond fighting would probably go with the pro-government side while guys like Vegeta, Piccolo, and Tien would likely go anti-government control. I don't see Goku caring about this enough to enter the fray so I imagine he'd probably just leave for King Kai's until this whole thing blows over. Satan would probably be split down the middle, with public opinion swaying him on pro-gov while his own personal feelings steering him to anti-gov.

It's got story and character potential for sure and it devolving into a pissing contest might actually work here with these characters whereas it never did with the Marvel's
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Re: Would you like a story arc about an internal dispute?

Post by TekTheNinja » Thu May 12, 2016 11:14 am

ekrolo2 wrote:Going by how you put it, you'd probably run into the same problem as Civil War the movie: Goku's team has no real valid standing and thus would come off as just reckless jerk offs wanting to stay reckless jerk offs.
Well that's the beauty of it. That's how YOU took it, but how I took it was that Tony's side was completely fine with becoming government pawns with no real choice of their own. It's set up so that different people with different ideals would agree with one side while other people would agree with the other. (Random note, the movie was way better than the comic, because in the comic Tony was impossible to relate with and was a complete tool. Here both are relatable)

But yeah this could work in Dragon Ball and make for some cool fights as no one ever seems to spar anymore.

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Re: Would you like a story arc about an internal dispute?

Post by Pantalones » Thu May 12, 2016 1:27 pm

I guess there was some potential for something like this near the end of the Buu saga -- with Goku wanting to keep the fat Buu around and Vegeta wanting to destroy him right away for fear of him getting angry and spawning another evil Buu in the future.

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Re: Would you like a story arc about an internal dispute?

Post by Nejishiki » Thu May 12, 2016 2:00 pm

Pantalones wrote:I guess there was some potential for something like this near the end of the Buu saga -- with Goku wanting to keep the fat Buu around and Vegeta wanting to destroy him right away for fear of him getting angry and spawning another evil Buu in the future.
I'd say it was present even earlier! Kaioshin and Gohan wanted to keep Buu sealed while Goku and Vegeta were actively making sure he would be released by donating their power. Of course, you have to tweak the narrative to make the focus on this louder but the potential was there. :)

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Re: Would you like a story arc about an internal dispute?

Post by TekTheNinja » Thu May 12, 2016 2:48 pm

Pantalones wrote:I guess there was some potential for something like this near the end of the Buu saga -- with Goku wanting to keep the fat Buu around and Vegeta wanting to destroy him right away for fear of him getting angry and spawning another evil Buu in the future.
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Re: Would you like a story arc about an internal dispute?

Post by NitroEX » Thu May 12, 2016 3:08 pm

Inb4 obligatory "Dats not Dragunball!" comment.

In all seriousness though, the character relationships have become stale as hell and there's a total lack of depth to most of the cast now. Even characters like Gohan who, in the past, had internal struggles have now been reduced to two dimensional caricatures of themselves. At this point I'd take anything over the status quo.

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Re: Would you like a story arc about an internal dispute?

Post by Marco Polo » Thu May 12, 2016 3:17 pm

With Trunks' return I'm hoping we might get some interesting minor disputes. DB isn't Marvel or freaking Game of Thrones, but there were some short disagreements in the Android Saga for example between Vegeta and Trunks, and between Krillin's sexual urge and the rest of the team.

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Re: Would you like a story arc about an internal dispute?

Post by ekrolo2 » Thu May 12, 2016 3:26 pm

TekTheNinja wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:Going by how you put it, you'd probably run into the same problem as Civil War the movie: Goku's team has no real valid standing and thus would come off as just reckless jerk offs wanting to stay reckless jerk offs.
Well that's the beauty of it. That's how YOU took it, but how I took it was that Tony's side was completely fine with becoming government pawns with no real choice of their own. It's set up so that different people with different ideals would agree with one side while other people would agree with the other. (Random note, the movie was way better than the comic, because in the comic Tony was impossible to relate with and was a complete tool. Here both are relatable)

But yeah this could work in Dragon Ball and make for some cool fights as no one ever seems to spar anymore.
Neither are relatable. Cap's side loses any cred once you remember Age of Ultron happens precisely due to lack of any real oversight over the Avengers (something no one brings up in the movie) and everything Cap says he goes completely against later on in the movie. Lying to his so-called friends, dragging people into this battle who have no stakes from them while simultaneously holding information from them too, after he had the nerve to complain about how governments treat people like pawns under whatever agenda suits them at any given time.

Tony is the one who has a point at first... until he murders any credibility he had with me when he brought in Spider-Man. Because it totally makes sense to bring a young man full of potential into a war zone after the loss of another young man full of potential is what prompted him sign the Accords in the first place.

The comic definitely made me loathe Tony, but the movie made me loathe EVERYONE. And it was just as bad as the comic with how self-righteous and up their own ass everyone is about the matters at hand while simultaneously having IQs rivaling the average adult from South Park.
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Re: Would you like a story arc about an internal dispute?

Post by Doctor. » Thu May 12, 2016 3:51 pm

Another idea: the dispute could be about Beerus and Whis' presence in the group. Bulma has already displayed that she doesn't trust Beerus, and if Vegeta finds out about Beerus being behind planet Vegeta, he has a reason to fight too. Goku on the other hand would think Beerus and Whis are alright because they provide him with training.

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Re: Would you like a story arc about an internal dispute?

Post by Lord Beerus » Thu May 12, 2016 4:19 pm

I would personally love to see a Civil War-like scenario in Dragon Ball, but it just can't see it ever happening for three big reasons:

1) The gap in strength between Goku and Vegeta and the rest of the main cast, at this point in time, is so large, that Goku and Vegeta can't possibly be on the same team to even begin with. Because if they are, it doesn't matter how many other members of the team opposing them there are, Goku and Vegeta could physically steam-roll them with little effort.

2) As NitroEX pointed out, the relationship between the core cast has become quite stale, bland and just really uninteresting, save perhaps Goku and Vegeta. And because of this there is no real depth in the main characters that be truly explored to create an possible tension. I mean, you can pretty much scrap any idea of Team Goku vs/ Team Vegeta right from the get-go because any bad blood they had between them pretty much died in the Majin Boo with Vegeta's character developing and accepting that Goku was strongest. Not to mention the hostility or tension within Goku and Vegeta's relationship was practically one sided. How can build the foundation of any kind of civil war or internal dispute if the drama, tension or hostility is mostly one sided? It just would work. Goku and Vegeta suddenly distrusting, hating or resenting each other would never work as far the narrative goes, because it would be so out of left field. I mean, were pretty much told that not only can Goku and Vegeta tolerant of each other but they're kinda friends. The only real contention we've seen between Goku and Vegeta has beeen that they don't like, and don't want to work together, but here's the problem: In the end, they're perfectly fine with that. This was kinda of A big missed opportunity in Resurrection F and especially in Super's retelling of the movie. You could of had Goku and Vegeta legitimately show contempt and resentment towards each other over the disagreement to work together to defeat Freeza. That could have laid the foundation for a possible Civil War-like scenario to revisit down the road later in the story. But instead, it's just blown off quickly as a joke or like two workout buddies bickering over how time each of them get to spend on the treadmill at the gym. Goku and Vegeta suddenly arguing of a possibly serious matter? Nah, they're Saiyans, and they're actually agree and are cool with each other over the matter. The End.

3) And the quite possibly the biggest reason: The Dragon Balls. Okay, lets be real, any kinda real drama that the story was ever going to have died the moment that a second set of Dragon Balls were introduced. That pretty much solidified that any kind of drama that there would be in the story would never have a lasting impact. What made Captain America: Civil War such a fantastic movie is that there were consequences for any kind of major action or moment that happened in the movie. In Dragon Ball, no such scenario is possible when they can just wish all there problems away with literally the snap of their finger. I mean, when the Bulma is giving away the Dragon Balls as a main prize for a bingo game at her freakin birthday party, I think it's safe to say that even in-universe it's acknowledged, by at least the main cast, of how easy they can collect the Dragon Balls and how much they honestly really don't find much value in them, because as I already stated they have another set of Dragon Balls, when are even more powerful, to fall back on. And with conception of Dragon Ball Super, they have three sets of magical wish granting MacGuffins at their disposal. There really are no lasting consequences in Dragon Ball.

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Re: Would you like a story arc about an internal dispute?

Post by FoolsGil » Fri May 13, 2016 8:15 pm

I would like it.

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Re: Would you like a story arc about an internal dispute?

Post by sintzu » Fri May 13, 2016 8:34 pm

It would probably work in Naruto or One Piece or even fairy tail due to a lot of characters being close to each other but how could you do that with DB ?

If Goku and Vegeta are a 10 then the other Z fighters are a -100 so even if they don't agree with the way they do things, there's nothing they can do about it.

It's a great idea and I even thought of writing a small story about it but there's not enough relevant characters to make it interesting.
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Re: Would you like a story arc about an internal dispute?

Post by Doctor. » Fri May 13, 2016 8:38 pm

sintzu wrote:It would probably work in Naruto or One Piece or even fairy tail due to a lot of characters being close to each other but how could you do that with DB ?

If Goku and Vegeta are a 10 then the other Z fighters are a -100 so even if they don't agree with the way they do things, there's nothing they can do about it.

It's a great idea and I even thought of writing a small story about it but there's not enough relevant characters to make it interesting.
Goku and Vegeta can keep each-other occupied while the other characters duke it out.

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Re: Would you like a story arc about an internal dispute?

Post by sintzu » Fri May 13, 2016 8:47 pm

Doctor. wrote:Goku and Vegeta can keep each-other occupied while the other characters duke it out.
What other characters ? Gohan, Piccolo, Goten and Krillin would more than likely be on the same side so that would leave Trunks (who might go with Goten), Tien, and Yamcha on the other side so it's a dead end no matter how you look at it.

The only way this could work would be in a reboot that has everyone on a similar level to each other but as things stand now, it's impossible.
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Re: Would you like a story arc about an internal dispute?

Post by Doctor. » Fri May 13, 2016 9:52 pm

sintzu wrote:
Doctor. wrote:Goku and Vegeta can keep each-other occupied while the other characters duke it out.
What other characters ? Gohan, Piccolo, Goten and Krillin would more than likely be on the same side so that would leave Trunks (who might go with Goten), Tien, and Yamcha on the other side so it's a dead end no matter how you look at it.

The only way this could work would be in a reboot that has everyone on a similar level to each other but as things stand now, it's impossible.
It always depends on how you write it, there's really no problem here. As long as you can find proper motivation and reasoning, you can have the line-ups you want.

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Re: Would you like a story arc about an internal dispute?

Post by Grimlock » Fri May 13, 2016 10:48 pm

Don't we have something at least similar with Saiyans and Tuffle? I always saw their conflit as a "Civil War/internal dispute". Also, wouldn't the "Super Saiyan God fighting evil Saiyans" concept fall into this criteria?

If I'm correct with these two examples I presented, then yes, I'd like to have an arc about it.

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