If Hit is stronger than Vados, why didn't he steal the cube?

[Polyphase Avatron]

Those values are not KI STRENGHT, the one measured by scouters.
Are a simple measure of "power" in narrative terms. KKx10 doesn't multiply this "comparison" value, and we don't know how much each step broadly translate in ki power.

Another problem is that everyone is assuming that the Kaio-ken x10 multiplies all stats by 10. Sure, that's how it's supposed to work under ideal circumstances, but it's never been tested in such extreme circumstances before (with God ki, stacked on top of a super form, etc.) So it's possible it could become unstable at this level. Maybe only Goku's speed was boosted by 10x, but his strength, defense, ki attacks, etc. were only boosted by 1.1x or something.

[djcoopdawg]

Either we have to ignore the original 6-10-15 power levels, or we have to assume the numbers are logarithmic in scale as a potential mathematical model. So if we say its base 10, then for Goku to go from a 6 to a 7, he would need to get 10 times stronger.

[DragonHermit]

Either we have to ignore the original 6-10-15 power levels, or we have to assume the numbers are logarithmic in scale as a potential mathematical model. So if we say its base 10, then for Goku to go from a 6 to a 7, he would need to get 10 times stronger.

I said this too. The only way it works is if we consider an exponential scale(think Runescape or WoW XP ). However, let's get real it's headcannon and that's not what Toriyama meant.

[LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta]

Bad writing. That's why. People say to throw out the 6, 10 15 scales...but no, unless you think rage vegeta>blue goku, goku at 10x should be above beerus and even whis. its just bad writing. welcome to super sadly....

[Hugo Boss]

Even Hit realizes he is weaker than Champa. Goku also agreed. For now, they can't match a God of Destruction, no matter what they do.

[Faisal Shourov]

Either we have to ignore the original 6-10-15 power levels, or we have to assume the numbers are logarithmic in scale as a potential mathematical model. So if we say its base 10, then for Goku to go from a 6 to a 7, he would need to get 10 times stronger.

I doubt Toriyama even knows what logarithmic scale is. He said he will keep Super simple for kids.

So yeah, Hit > (Whis + Vados) x 2

[Lord Beerus]

Since when has Hit been stronger than Vados? Last time I checked, Hit shit his pants against Champa, who is much weaker than Vados herself.

[Sonicjamareiz]

Since when has Hit been stronger than Vados? Last time I checked, Hit shit his pants against Champa, who is much weaker than Vados herself.

I wouldn't say He's much weaker than Vados because in super it was never stated how strong Whis/Vados is or if they're even strong at all. Aside from vague hints at Vados strength compared to Whis I'm not surprised if they retcon Whis being stronger than Beerus. :/

[Polyphase Avatron]

Either we have to ignore the original 6-10-15 power levels, or we have to assume the numbers are logarithmic in scale as a potential mathematical model. So if we say its base 10, then for Goku to go from a 6 to a 7, he would need to get 10 times stronger.

I doubt Toriyama even knows what logarithmic scale is. He said he will keep Super simple for kids.

If he graduated from high school he should know what it is...

[Sonicjamareiz]

Either we have to ignore the original 6-10-15 power levels, or we have to assume the numbers are logarithmic in scale as a potential mathematical model. So if we say its base 10, then for Goku to go from a 6 to a 7, he would need to get 10 times stronger.

I doubt Toriyama even knows what logarithmic scale is. He said he will keep Super simple for kids.

If he graduated from high school he should know what it is...

I don't know what a logarithmic scale is and I graduated high school not too long ago

[Faisal Shourov]

Either we have to ignore the original 6-10-15 power levels, or we have to assume the numbers are logarithmic in scale as a potential mathematical model. So if we say its base 10, then for Goku to go from a 6 to a 7, he would need to get 10 times stronger.

I doubt Toriyama even knows what logarithmic scale is. He said he will keep Super simple for kids.

If he graduated from high school he should know what it is...

I don't think so. He's a just a manga artist who can't even remember his own story. Not many people with outstanding academic record become manga artist. Even if he did, he's extremely unlikely to use logarithmic scale in a kids show without proper explanation (the 6 10 15 is from an interview where he didn't say anything about logarithmic, it's purely fan conjecture)

[Polyphase Avatron]

I don't think so. He's a just a manga artist who can't even remember his own story. Not many people with outstanding academic record become manga artist. Even if he did, he's extremely unlikely to use logarithmic scale in a kids show without proper explanation (the 6 10 15 is from an interview where he didn't say anything about logarithmic, it's purely fan conjecture)

I agree that he likely wouldn't use it, especially in a casual interview like that. I was just saying that it's something that most people learn in high school so assuming that he's never even heard of the concept before seems doubtful.

[Faisal Shourov]

I agree that he likely wouldn't use it, especially in a casual interview like that. I was just saying that it's something that most people learn in high school so assuming that he's never even heard of the concept before seems doubtful.

So yeah, 6 10 15 is linear and there is no reason to think otherwise. Hit one shots Whis and Vados at the same time

[Kuririn Fan]

I agree that he likely wouldn't use it, especially in a casual interview like that. I was just saying that it's something that most people learn in high school so assuming that he's never even heard of the concept before seems doubtful.

So yeah, 6 10 15 is linear and there is no reason to think otherwise. Hit one shots Whis and Vados at the same time

You are correct.

[Overlord78]

I agree that he likely wouldn't use it, especially in a casual interview like that. I was just saying that it's something that most people learn in high school so assuming that he's never even heard of the concept before seems doubtful.

So yeah, 6 10 15 is linear and there is no reason to think otherwise. Hit one shots Whis and Vados at the same time

If we use that scale, assume it is linear and apply it to Super then yeah Hit would beat them both. Which is why I only use that scale for the movies.

[Sodhi]

I think its not the scale that bothers some people, but beerus using 10% against ssj2 rageta. That would make ssjg a lot weaker than people thought.

[Pannaliciour]

There is something not right: what can Champa do if Hit freezes time (complete freeze) and use his assassin move?


1)Champa will die
2) Champa counter time skip (this is unlikely because even Beerus couldn't counter it)
3)Champa has exxtreme durabilty that even ssj b kk times 10 can't hurt him.

[Polyphase Avatron]

There is something not right: what can Champa do if Hit freezes time (complete freeze) and use his assassin move?


1)Champa will die
2) Champa counter time skip (this is unlikely because even Beerus couldn't counter it)
3)Champa has exxtreme durabilty that even ssj b kk times 10 can't hurt him.

Well I view it more like a time skip than a time stop. So if Champa is in motion before it starts or anticipates it he can wipe Hit out. He could possibly kill him before he even gets a chance to use it.

[TheMikado]

I've said it in other threads and saying it again. When your audience is unable to follow this very simple concept of relative strength you messed up somewhere along the lines. Turning things up to 11 with SSJ Goku doing universe level punches against Beerus then making SSB, then making SSB x 10. Then have 3 different versions of these events, of course your audience will be confused and every single conversation will end up devolving into who is stronger then who because no one can tell based strictly on the narrative.

Your audience shouldn't be so lost to the point where their opinions vary this widely unless the interpretation is MEANT to be ambiguous.
Think the ending of inception.

[Draconic]

How can it be bad writing if the scale was never mwntioned in the actual story?