Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[DBZGTKOSDH]

There needs to be a visual cue when they supposedly change base states, otherwise it's beyond stupid.

That just means that Goku & Vegeta didn't use the "Saiyan beyond God" form in the tournament.

[Lord Beerus]

There needs to be a visual cue when they supposedly change base states, otherwise it's beyond stupid.

That just means that Goku & Vegeta didn't use the "Saiyan beyond God" form in the tournament.

Is Saiyan Beyond God even a thing outside of Dragon Ball Heroes?

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

There needs to be a visual cue when they supposedly change base states, otherwise it's beyond stupid.

That just means that Goku & Vegeta didn't use the "Saiyan beyond God" form in the tournament.

Is there a reason why Goku wouldn't use this instead of resorting to Super Saiyan?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Is Saiyan Beyond God even a thing outside of Dragon Ball Heroes?

In theory, if the movies & the Super manga (U6 arc & beyond) are intended to be in the same continuity, or else we have a plot-hole.

Is there a reason why Goku wouldn't use this instead of resorting to Super Saiyan?

Same reason he used Super Saiyan instead of Super Saiyan Blue.

[VegetaSSJBlue]

Zeno: ?
Vados: ?
Whis: ?
Beerus: ?
Champa: ?

Son Goku: 140,000,000
Super Saiyan: 7,000,000,000
Saiyan Beyond God: 60,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue: 90,000,000,000,000
Kaio Ken x10: 900,000,000,000,000

Vegeta: 140,000,000
Super Saiyan: 7,000,000,000
Saiyan Beyond God: 60,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue: 90,000,000,000,000

Majin Buu: 20,000,000

Piccolo: 4,500,000,000

Monaka: 4

Hit: 90,000,000,000,000

Cabba: 140,000,000
Super Saiyan: 7,000,000,000

Magetta: 400,000,000
Full Power: 6,000,000,000

Frost: 70,000,000
Assault form: 140,000,000
Final form: 5,000,000,000

Botamo: 50,000,000

Gohan: 4,000,000,000

Jaco: 1,000

[LightBing]

Is Saiyan Beyond God even a thing outside of Dragon Ball Heroes?

In theory, if the movies & the Super manga (U6 arc & beyond) are intended to be in the same continuity, or else we have a plot-hole.

Is there a reason why Goku wouldn't use this instead of resorting to Super Saiyan?

Same reason he used Super Saiyan instead of Super Saiyan Blue.

Is it said anywhere that they are supposed to be in the same continuity? The manga has it's own BoG arc, why ignore it for the BoG movie?
I think the Super Manga was even publicized as an adaptation of the anime, which takes it further away from the movies.

I don't think it's productive at all to mix the products. There's three different continuity's: Manga, movies and anime. People should choose one and stick to it.

[Bullza]

People are still clinging to this two base theory?

We're 43 episodes into the series, we're about to start the fourth arc, there's been a couple dozen fights, several of which have involved the base form and there's been not one comment that's been said about having two bases/turning God Ki on and off nor has it even been implied.....and people still think it's a possibility?

If it was a thing then the writers would obviously have had the common sense to write that into the series wouldn't they?

[Faisal Shourov]

So that now we know Hit = 4x Whis, he is the second/third strongest in Dragon Ball after Zeno and possibly Zarama. Question is, what's the power level for Zeno? 100?

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Same reason he used Super Saiyan instead of Super Saiyan Blue.

Goku was surprised Super Saiyan wasn't enough and Super Saiyan Blue is considered their full-power. Nothing tells us Saiyan Beyond God is some other form they just refuse to use. It's their Base form powered-up.

[VegetaSSJBlue]

So that now we know Hit = 4x Whis, he is the second/third strongest in Dragon Ball after Zeno and possibly Zarama. Question is, what's the power level for Zeno? 100?

Wtf, Hit the second strongest in DB???
Hit<Goku kkx10< Champa< Beerus< Whis< Vados<Zeno
Hit: ×4 Whis?

[Faisal Shourov]

Wtf, Hit the second strongest in DB???
Hit<Goku kkx10< Champa< Beerus< Whis< Vados<Zeno
Hit: ×4 Whis?

SSG Goku = 6
SSB Goku kkx10 = at least 60
Hit= >60
Whis= 15

Hit = 4x Whis

[Lord Beerus]

Wtf, Hit the second strongest in DB???
Hit<Goku kkx10< Champa< Beerus< Whis< Vados<Zeno
Hit: ×4 Whis?

SSG Goku = 6
SSB Goku kkx10 = at least 60
Hit= >60
Whis= 15

Hit = 4x Whis

You really need to let go of the 6-10-15 scale. It's not applicable in any sense beyond Battle Of Gods, and was just a throw away comment made by Toriyama in a interview to give a basic description of gap in strength between SSJG Goku, Beerus and Whis in one instance. It has no bearing beyond that.

[TheMikado]

Wtf, Hit the second strongest in DB???
Hit<Goku kkx10< Champa< Beerus< Whis< Vados<Zeno
Hit: ×4 Whis?

SSG Goku = 6
SSB Goku kkx10 = at least 60
Hit= >60
Whis= 15

Hit = 4x Whis

And this my friends is the problem... We literally just completed an entire arc and are 43 episodes in and we can't even tell in the main "antagonist" is 4x stronger than our strongest known character or half as sting as that same character, I keep saying it but if your audience has no idea where your characters stand in a shonen who's theme surrounds "power" then your narrative is totally F'ked.

[Saiyan007]

Wtf, Hit the second strongest in DB???
Hit<Goku kkx10< Champa< Beerus< Whis< Vados<Zeno
Hit: ×4 Whis?

SSG Goku = 6
SSB Goku kkx10 = at least 60
Hit= >60
Whis= 15

Hit = 4x Whis

And this my friends is the problem... We literally just completed an entire arc and are 43 episodes in and we can't even tell in the main "antagonist" is 4x stronger than our strongest known character or half as sting as that same character, I keep saying it but if your audience has no idea where your characters stand in a shonen who's theme surrounds "power" then your narrative is totally F'ked.

No its more like people still clinging to old ideas and making things harder than it needs to be

It's pretty damn obvious Goku isn't stronger than Beerus let alone 4x stronger than Whis

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Is it said anywhere that they are supposed to be in the same continuity? The manga has it's own BoG arc, why ignore it for the BoG movie?
I think the Super Manga was even publicized as an adaptation of the anime, which takes it further away from the movies.

I don't think it's productive at all to mix the products. There's three different continuity's: Manga, movies and anime. People should choose one and stick to it.

The reason I believe that the movie & manga continuities are one is because both are incomplete. The movie continuity lacks everything beyond FnF, and the manga continuity has a rushed BoG arc* & lacks an FnF arc. However, from what Toriyama says in his interview, BoG, FnF, U6 arc, and everything beyond are supposed to form one story, which is a continuation of his story.
*Beerus even makes reference of his "You are the 2nd strongest fighter I've ever faced" line from BoG in U6 arc, which was omitted in the BoG arc of the manga, and Toyotaro even made a joke bonus page in the volume release of the manga about that.

The only complete continuity we have is the anime continuity, but that's an adaptation of Toriyama's stories & a continuation of the anime. The Super manga was promoted as an adaptation of the anime, but we know that it actually isn't & that the anime even uses it as a reference a few times.

Goku was surprised Super Saiyan wasn't enough

You mean against Frost? What does this have to do with anything, SS Goku was much stronger than Frost, yet he somehow lost all of a sudden, which is why he was surprised.

[TheMikado]

SSG Goku = 6
SSB Goku kkx10 = at least 60
Hit= >60
Whis= 15

Hit = 4x Whis

And this my friends is the problem... We literally just completed an entire arc and are 43 episodes in and we can't even tell in the main "antagonist" is 4x stronger than our strongest known character or half as sting as that same character, I keep saying it but if your audience has no idea where your characters stand in a shonen who's theme surrounds "power" then your narrative is totally F'ked.

No its more like people still clinging to old ideas and making things harder than it needs to be

It's pretty damn obvious Goku isn't stronger than Beerus let alone 4x stronger than Whis

So what are people supposed to think when they see 10% Rageta? and then 2-3 additional forms on top of that. And you are making an assumption that every fan should JUST KNOW that the stuff they saw in BoG doesn't correlate to Super. There are A LOT of people even watching who were under the impression Beerus was using 70% of his Full Power against SSJ Goku. We shouldn't cling to the idea that every fan and even everyone on this forum should just know which "version" of the story they should be going by.

[ZombieVito]

There needs to be a visual cue when they supposedly change base states, otherwise it's beyond stupid.

That just means that Goku & Vegeta didn't use the "Saiyan beyond God" form in the tournament.

So let me get this straight.

Goku attacked Hit, an opponent that completely wrecked SSB Vegeta with a base power in the millions instead of using a supposedly god state that would give him a power easily in the dozen/hundred billions?

No, sorry.

[TheMikado]

^ guess you could argue it was so he could save his Ki, but that would make Goku more reckless and letting his guard down more than usual to the point of near suicide, but the way his character is written as a complete idiot in Super it wouldn't be that out of the norm in context.

[Bullza]

It makes zero sense for him to have God Ki switched on from the start when fighting against Frieza but then has it switched off the entire time throughout the Tournament even when fighting someone who beat the tar out of SSJB Vegeta.

Same with Vegeta, if he's struggling against Magetta then why would he have it turned off? Why wouldn't he just turn it on instead of turning Super Saiyan where he CO to ued to struggle?

Nah, it's made clear as day that there's a base power, a stronger Super Saiyan power and then a stronger Super Saiyan Blue power and that's it.

[TheMikado]

It makes zero sense for him to have God Ki switched on from the start when fighting against Frieza but then has it switched off the entire time throughout the Tournament even when fighting someone who beat the tar out of SSJB Vegeta.

Same with Vegeta, if he's struggling against Magetta then why would he have it turned off? Why wouldn't he just turn it on instead of turning Super Saiyan where he CO to ued to struggle?

Nah, it's made clear as day that there's a base power, a stronger Super Saiyan power and then a stronger Super Saiyan Blue power and that's it.

I'm fine with that as long we acknowledge there is both a God Tier Piccolo and a God Tier Rageta and that SSG really can't be all that powerful. Maybe Beerus just ended up doing a pressure point on SSJ3 Goku and that universe busting wave punches weren't actually endangering the universe just the immediate solar system. Probably just Earth and the moon.