What SS form should have been the last transformation?

[TheMikado]

I feel like Super Saiyan 4 didn't even follow the evolution of Super Saiyan 1-3 transformations.
It's more of an evolution of the Great Ape transformations, like an Oozaru human mode.

Woulda been cool if SS4 dropped the fur and tail, kept the hair style, but made it gold.
Would give the feel of a more refined and controlled power of SS3.

SSJ4 would've been a great place to stop the series/transformations. SSJ4 was done perfectly IMO. We've had enough golden transformations, and I think SSJ4 was something new and original.

Agreed, its like a perfect cap for everything that Goku was in Dragonball (Monkey boy) and DBZ (Super Saiyan).
God by contrast was literally out of nowhere and SSB was even moreso. SSG gets a pass because it was intended as temporary.

I'd pick either SSJ3 or SSJ4

SSJ3 gives off ultimate, saikyoo Supa Saiyajin vibe with deadly villainious look especially with lack of brow & wild, aggressive long hair. It gives a very demonic presence, true to Saiyan's vintage nature

As for SSJ4, it feels very raw & organic. Only thing is the annoying tail & pink fur. Swap the color with gold & I'm fine. More than being last, I consider SSJ4 to be the treshold of "SSJ oversaturation" that SSJ Goddo/Goat, Bluper Saiyan became. Lol

The tail was neccessary as it draws on Goku's Oozaru form and his time in Dragonball and the fur is red. They considered doing Gold but felt this color scheme was much stronger. There's an interested interview about the design where the designer says he actually antagonized being charged with creating SSJ4. If he wanted to he could have easily gone the SSB route but I'm glad he at least tried to give us something that didnt feel like a total @SS pull and pulled on two natural and established Saiyan aspects.

[Dbzfan94]

Should have stopped at 4 as it truly felt like the pinnacle of saiyan metamorphosis. I'd also settle for stopping at SSJ God. Blue should never have been a thing. SSJ God was more unique, and was tossed aside for no good reason. Though really I'd throw away god for SSJ4 if I could.

I agree with this. SSJ4 looks much more like a god to me.

[Mewzard]

I agree with this. SSJ4 looks much more like a god to me.

But does it? In terms of how the Dragon Ball gods look? I definitely disagree there.

[dbzfan7]

I agree with this. SSJ4 looks much more like a god to me.

But does it? In terms of how the Dragon Ball gods look? I definitely disagree there.

As a god of the saiyan species, I'd say so. But definitely an apt observation to keep in mind when I think of Super Saiyan God.

[Ozotto]

Super Saiyan 4 does look more god like than the others, since it basically resembles common depictions of Sun Wukong the monkey god.

It's just weird how it's not a succession of the first three Super Saiyan forms, but it's called "four".

If they would have discovered Golden Ape after they figured out Super Saiyan, ssj3 probably would of never of existed or be needed.

I like the transformation and design, I just don't like how it's called Super Saiyan 4, it would be like Super Saiyan God being called Super Saiyan 5.

Just my own opinions and outlooks though.

[successoroffate]

I'd pick SSJ 4 as I see it as a Primal Super Saiyan.

[TheMikado]

I'd pick SSJ 4 as I see it as a Primal Super Saiyan.

It takes two elements of Saiyan physiology and merges them so I wouldn't call it primal as much as it's the original.
Even if you look at the first instance of viewing the SSJ legend through Vegeta you see a Golden Oozaru.

[successoroffate]

I'd pick SSJ 4 as I see it as a Primal Super Saiyan.

It takes two elements of Saiyan physiology and merges them so I wouldn't call it primal as much as it's the original.
Even if you look at the first instance of viewing the SSJ legend through Vegeta you see a Golden Oozaru.

I agree. To be honest, I still think to this day that the SSJ 4 is the true Super Saiyan. The one from the legend of course.

[ABED]

I think there should've only been Super Saiyan 1 and 4. The other forms just feel lazy.

[Vijay]

I think there should've only been Super Saiyan 1 and 4. The other forms just feel lazy.

Curious abt the "lazy" part. Sure, DBZ isnt Bleach to shout "Bankai" & have 400+ different.forms.of.swords.

Or Naruto. Where you utter somethin along the lines of "talk-no-jutsu" & you either have Ninja standing ontop giant Toad. Or depresssing 40 minutes of flashbacks unfold. Right. In. The middle. Of. The. Fight

Or Fairy Tail. Where the author chooses to redefine the term "lazyness" to resolve a fight using Nakama no Chikara. By rising their fingers into the sky. BAM!!! Natsu clears house

Toriyama at least avoided all these stereotypical cliches and gave some variety to Super Saiyan states.

ASSJ was forced power output, with great muscle mass.

USSJ was ASSJ pushed to extreme levels which actually does more harm to the user by killing speed & chi

FPSSJ was natural conception based upon real-life athletes where "form" is given importance

Then we have SSJ2 (which has been explored ever since Cell Games), SSJ3 (a form that is still enigmatic to this day) & SSJ4.

If anything, its SSJG & Blueper Saiyan states dat were lazy as the former was discarded almost immediately post BOG while latter bordered on parody

[ABED]

It feels lazy because the only way to beat the big bad is another transformation? After that, SS3 is yet another transformation to put Goku on par with a villain. It lacks creativity, whereas Goku realizing the drawbacks of going beyond Super Saiyan was really clever. He figured out that Super Saiyan had the best balance and decided the best strategy would be to stay in SS1 all the time so it feels natural to them and then start over from the basics with their training. I loved that. It was original and interesting and showed an intelligence in Goku. I don't think we needed another transformation.

[Captain Strawberry]

Super Saiyajin Blue as it's blue and makes since. Fusing normal ki (SSJ) with another ki type.

[Kuririn Fan]

SS1 and that should be unlocked in the last arc of the manga and then only SSG from the new stuff and maybe, some final third form.

[TheMikado]

Super Saiyajin Blue as it's blue and makes since. Fusing normal ki (SSJ) with another ki type.

SBB actually makes no sense, especially in terms of mixing colors. In no world do you mix Red (God Ki) and Yellow (SSJ Ki) and get Blue... it's about as random and nonsensical as it gets.

[Captain Strawberry]

Super Saiyajin Blue as it's blue and makes since. Fusing normal ki (SSJ) with another ki type.

SBB actually makes no sense, especially in terms of mixing colors. In no world do you mix Red (God Ki) and Yellow (SSJ Ki) and get Blue... it's about as random and nonsensical as it gets.

The mechanism does.

And SSJB does make sense from a different perspective. The obvious one is, they already used red and yellow.

But the main one is, Goku said in the tournament that the form itself gives great ki control and a combination of strength and calm mind. So overall, it's a calm form and blue is a calm colour.

[sintzu]

Ssj3 didn't have any usage in the original story so I think 2 should've been the last one in the manga but instead of it being 2 it should've been a fully controlled Ssj or fully powered one, like how the muscled forms weren't new forms but Ssj1 with just bigger muscles.

Ssj4 was completely different from what came before it and was actually useful so it was a nice addition to the list and made up for 3.

Ssjg was a temporary form so it being around or not really doesn't matter.

Ssjb and Ssj white look like a Ssj parody so I think after absorbing Ssjg, Goku & Vegeta should've just returned to using their original Ssj form or even just Ssjg.

[TheMikado]

Super Saiyajin Blue as it's blue and makes since. Fusing normal ki (SSJ) with another ki type.

SBB actually makes no sense, especially in terms of mixing colors. In no world do you mix Red (God Ki) and Yellow (SSJ Ki) and get Blue... it's about as random and nonsensical as it gets.

The mechanism does.

And SSJB does make sense from a different perspective. The obvious one is, they already used red and yellow.

But the main one is, Goku said in the tournament that the form itself gives great ki control and a combination of strength and calm mind. So overall, it's a calm form and blue is a calm colour.

Except the origin of the God form completely and literally changed for no reason. One moment it took 5 saiyans of good heart, the next Vegeta shows up randomly with God ki and Blue hair. So yeah, it's probably the worse form yet. An equivalent would be seeing Goku going Oozaru because he has a full moon and a tail in Dragonball, then seeing Vegeta come to earth with no tail and no moon/moon equivalent and suddenly be able to turn Oozaru because of "Training". It sounds dumb and makes the conditions of the form meaningless for the sake of plot.

[Captain Strawberry]

Ssj3 didn't have any usage in the original story so I think 2 should've been the last one in the manga but instead of it being 2 it should've been a fully controlled Ssj or fully powered one, like how the muscled forms weren't new forms but Ssj1 with just bigger muscles.

Ssj4 was completely different from what came before it and was actually useful so it was a nice addition to the list and made up for 3.

Ssjg was a temporary form so it being around or not really doesn't matter.

Ssjb and Ssj white look like a Ssj parody so I think after absorbing Ssjg, Goku & Vegeta should've just returned to using their original Ssj form or even just Ssjg.

SSJ3 kinda makes or does make sense because when you go SSJ1 - SSJ2, your hair grows longer. So maybe it has do with potential. Potential increases hair length.

Except the origin of the God form completely and literally changed for no reason. One moment it took 5 saiyans of good heart, the next Vegeta shows up randomly with God ki and Blue hair. So yeah, it's probably the worse form yet. An equivalent would be seeing Goku going Oozaru because he has a full moon and a tail in Dragonball, then seeing Vegeta come to earth with no tail and no moon/moon equivalent and suddenly be able to turn Oozaru because of "Training". It sounds dumb and makes the conditions of the form meaningless for the sake of plot.

Well they just said or implied that there are different ways of obtaining gosh ki

[TheMikado]

Except the origin of the God form completely and literally changed for no reason. One moment it took 5 saiyans of good heart, the next Vegeta shows up randomly with God ki and Blue hair. So yeah, it's probably the worse form yet. An equivalent would be seeing Goku going Oozaru because he has a full moon and a tail in Dragonball, then seeing Vegeta come to earth with no tail and no moon/moon equivalent and suddenly be able to turn Oozaru because of "Training". It sounds dumb and makes the conditions of the form meaningless for the sake of plot.

Well they just said or implied that there are different ways of obtaining gosh ki

If that's the case I don't see why they couldn't just wait a couple months after training to make God/Vegeta permanently God if he wanted an actual challenge. Like the weird thing was how urgent it felt and it was their only hope when it sounds like Whis and Beerus knew how to make them Gods from the get go. It's not like they were in any big hurry, they had been around for a couple 100 million years by now. They could have easily waited a few months for the time it took for them to catch up and even surpass that God form.

[sintzu]

SSJ3 kinda makes or does make sense because when you go SSJ1 - SSJ2, your hair grows longer. So maybe it has do with potential. Potential increases hair length.

The hair just stands up in those forms and my issue isn't with that, it's that it wasn't useful at all so I don't know why it was even introduced.