Did you like Toriyama’s decision to make Vegeta a prince?

[veku1]

Vegeta wasn’t revealed to be a prince until the Namek arc. In the Saiyan arc, the Saiyans are made to seem very anarchic and lawless. The Saiyans didn’t seem like the type of people to have a form of government. I actually liked Kaiō-sama’s backstory about the Saiyans, even though it was filler. Toriyama should have rolled with it. I’m assuming Toriyama’s decision to make Vegeta a prince was an attempt to make him a more likable character. Kings and princes are cooler than lawless space bandits I guess. I don’t know. I can’t say I’m a fan of Vegeta as a prince. The Saiyans seemed more apt for anarchy, rather than monarchy.

[gogeta97]

I like Vegeta as a prince, it makes sense considering how incredibly prideful he is. Shouldn't he technically be a king now though?

[Majin Jator]

For a culture who value strength over anything else doesn't make sense to have that kind of government. But.. maybe King Vegeta proclaimed himself as a ruler because he was the strongest and could kill any "dissident".

[Lord Beerus]

I didn't mind it at all. It actually kinda added a bit of prestige to Vegeta's character that made his interactions with Goku, who Vegeta's perceives as below him because of his "royal status", all the more unique and intriguing. And in the end, it made Vegeta's character as a whole more layered and his development much deeper and meaningful.

[sintzu]

Yeah cause it gives him his own identity instead of just being another Saiyan and will hopefully be relevant when we get to u6's Saiyan planet cause I think the original didn't do as much as it could've with that aspect of his character.

[Chuquita]

Yes because it's allowed me to play with so many prince and royalty tropes with him in fan-comics.

[ABED]

For a culture who value strength over anything else doesn't make sense to have that kind of government. But.. maybe King Vegeta proclaimed himself as a ruler because he was the strongest and could kill any "dissident".

What kind of government are you referring to? I think it's absolutely plausible that a culture that valued physical strength would have a monarchy, in this case the strongest would create it by force.

The Saiyans seemed more apt for anarchy, rather than monarchy.

And there's no huge difference between anarchy and monarchy with absolute control. Both involve force.

[veku1]

And there's no huge difference between anarchy and monarchy with absolute control. Both involve force.

Anarchy is an absence of government. Monarchy would be the opposite of that, as it involves some type of government. When first introduced, the Saiyans didn't strike me as the type of people who would give importance to royalty or hierarchy. They just like to fight and eat. In Kaiō-sama's backstory, they were shown as very uncivilized and unruly. They lived in harsh conditions. In the Namek arc, we see them living in palaces and shit. Making Vegeta a prince was probably an attempt by Toiryama to humanize the Saiyans a bit. In the previous arc, the Saiyans were basically monsters and barbarians. Oozaru got scrapped after the Saiyan arc and the less intimidating super saiyan form is introduced. I can see why Toiryama made Vegeta a prince, as it made his transition to a good guy easier, but I just wish it wasn't done as a retcon.

[Majin Jator]

For a culture who value strength over anything else doesn't make sense to have that kind of government. But.. maybe King Vegeta proclaimed himself as a ruler because he was the strongest and could kill any "dissident".

What kind of government are you referring to? I think it's absolutely plausible that a culture that valued physical strength would have a monarchy, in this case the strongest would create it by force.

Yeah, I said that KIng Vegeta could make himself a monarch by force. But is hard to believe that they have a monarchy established lon ago; doesn't make sense for saiyans to accept a ruler just because it has inherited the title, and that's how monarchy works.

Of course, Vegeta's bloodline might be always the strongest. That's probably the explanation. But won't a complacent king, sitting in his throne most of the day, be surpased by warriors who train and survive battles (zenkai) in a regular basis?

[Polyphase Avatron]

In the Saiyan saga they still had ranks like elite, so I don't see why having an organized government wouldn't make sense.

[lancerman]

For a culture who value strength over anything else doesn't make sense to have that kind of government. But.. maybe King Vegeta proclaimed himself as a ruler because he was the strongest and could kill any "dissident".

What kind of government are you referring to? I think it's absolutely plausible that a culture that valued physical strength would have a monarchy, in this case the strongest would create it by force.

Yeah, I said that KIng Vegeta could make himself a monarch by force. But is hard to believe that they have a monarchy established lon ago; doesn't make sense for saiyans to accept a ruler just because it has inherited the title, and that's how monarchy works.

Of course, Vegeta's bloodline might be always the strongest. That's probably the explanation. But won't a complacent king, sitting in his throne most of the day, be surpased by warriors who train and survive battles (zenkai) in a regular basis?

That assumes that in Saiyan culture that the king isn't fighting all the time. By proxy he might have to always fight to prove himself. Remember, he directly confronted Freeza. In movie canon, he was the one who "took out Paragus before sentencing Broly to death".

[Polyphase Avatron]

They are like Spartans probably, where the king would lead his armies into battle.

[Zephyr]

I don't have any problems with it. Though, it seems a lot like the kind of thing that would stir up a lot of harsh criticism if Toriyama did it today.

[ABED]

And there's no huge difference between anarchy and monarchy with absolute control. Both involve force.

Anarchy is an absence of government. Monarchy would be the opposite of that, as it involves some type of government. When first introduced, the Saiyans didn't strike me as the type of people who would give importance to royalty or hierarchy. They just like to fight and eat. In Kaiō-sama's backstory, they were shown as very uncivilized and unruly. They lived in harsh conditions. In the Namek arc, we see them living in palaces and shit. Making Vegeta a prince was probably an attempt by Toiryama to humanize the Saiyans a bit. In the previous arc, the Saiyans were basically monsters and barbarians. Oozaru got scrapped after the Saiyan arc and the less intimidating super saiyan form is introduced. I can see why Toiryama made Vegeta a prince, as it made his transition to a good guy easier, but I just wish it wasn't done as a retcon.

Anarchy is the absence of a government but in essence it's the same thing as a monarchy with absolute control. They aren't the complete opposite. Instead of one person using force at their will, you have a bunch of essentially little governments.

I do think the Saiyans being a fighting culture would actually value hierarchy. They have castes based on strength, and the royalty in their society is based on the same principle. Sure, it's a bit of a retcon, but not one that clashes with what we saw before. Sure, the Saiyans were barbarians (not just in the filler flashbacks), but they had highly advanced technology, which isn't what you see in barbaric cultures unless they take it.

[Captain Strawberry]

Yeah cause it gives him his own identity instead of just being another Saiyan and will hopefully be relevant when we get to u6's Saiyan planet cause I think the original didn't do as much as it could've with that aspect of his character.

Yeah it also adds a sort of nobility and majesty to Vegeta.

It can be kinda symbolic where Vegeta humbles himself to Cabba (a fellow Saiyajin).

It just adds layers to Vegeta's character and his voice too lol

[Soppa Saia People]

In the Saiyan saga they still had ranks like elite, so I don't see why having an organized government wouldn't make sense.

Were't those Freeza's ranks ?

[ABED]

In the Saiyan saga they still had ranks like elite, so I don't see why having an organized government wouldn't make sense.

Were't those Freeza's ranks ?

Maybe, but I can easily see the Saiyans having a very rough caste systems separated into weak, mid-level, and elite fighters.

[TheMikado]

I think it was great and honestly helps develop the lore later on. We find that King Vegeta was really the first such "King" based on his battle to overthrow the Truffles.

Vegeta pretty much just got the title by proxy. Prior to that they appeared to be nomadic tribes with rough leaders. Think of the horse tribe in Game of Thrones. It really gives some variety as far as I'm concerned and I love the choice especially with Vegeta's character and personality. I'm biased but Vegeta was just a brilliant character all around.

[veku1]

Maybe, but I can easily see the Saiyans having a very rough caste systems separated into weak, mid-level, and elite fighters.

That doesn't seem to be the case in the Saiyan arc. Saiyans differed in strength but there doesn't seem to be any discrimination based on strength. Raditz refers to himself as a "first rate warrior" and had a close camaraderie with Vegeta and Nappa, who were much stronger than him. Vegeta doesn't even bring up "low class saiyans" until the Namek arc.

[TheMikado]

Maybe, but I can easily see the Saiyans having a very rough caste systems separated into weak, mid-level, and elite fighters.

That doesn't seem to be the case in the Saiyan arc. Saiyans differed in strength but there doesn't seem to be any discrimination based on strength. Raditz refers to himself as a "first rate warrior" and had a close camaraderie with Vegeta and Nappa, who were much stronger than him. Vegeta doesn't even bring up "low class saiyans" until the Namek arc.

I'm pretty sure when they found out Raditz died Nappa and Vegeta mocked him for being low-level/class. I distinctly remember the line "Raditz was a weakling."