SSJ4 being homage to Sun Wukong

[Vijay]

Does anyone else think the same?

Or perhaps I should've asked have anyone actually watched Journey To The West, as there has been various adaptations, at least 6 TV series, animated show & over 3 films.

So, in order to deduce wether or not SSJ4 was intended to be homage to iconic Sun Wukong, 1st you need to have at least a vague impression of the said character

I just recently watched JTTW (1996) which is regarded as most entertaining piece of work. Dicky Cheung played as Wukong & needless to say. Rocked! Absolutely fell in love with the character & the BGM's at many places (Wukong's backstory, training segments, Heavenly & Human World adventures) instantly reminded me of Kikuchi

Back to topic, at tail end of GT's Ep 34 (which was animated by Uchiyama Masayuki) showed Golden Oozaru Goku's slow-mo transformation into SSJ4

With the thick fur, monkey tail & ape-like abdominal appearance, all those points instantly gave me a strong Sun Wukong impression

Its no secret that Goku was Wukong derivative. But SSJ4 simply "revived" that connection after a very long break in Z-era (where Goku became more of Superman lol)

Thoughts?

[sangofe]

I had this theory of SSJ4 being based on one in-between-frames of the SSJ3 transformation because if you pause the video, ssj4's really similar.

[Kamiccolo9]

Does anyone else think the same?

Or perhaps I should've asked have anyone actually watched Journey To The West, as there has been various adaptations, at least 6 TV series, animated show & over 3 films.

And, you know, a book. Minor thing; not too important.

[Vijay]

Does anyone else think the same?

Or perhaps I should've asked have anyone actually watched Journey To The West, as there has been various adaptations, at least 6 TV series, animated show & over 3 films.

And, you know, a book. Minor thing; not too important.

If it was a minor thing, the source material would've remained as a book or novel. Forever

It was a beast back then (80's-90's). Still a beast (Over 3-4 JTTW series incarnations, Monkey King (2014), Monkey King 2 (2016). Will always remain a beast (top H'wood studio is in talks for Monkey King 3 pre-production collaborations)

Hell yeah! Minor thing.

You realize Journey To The West is ancient Chinese mythological tale right? Hit google search & its history dates way back to Chinese Dynasty.

Its not comic book waiting in the book shelves to be bought. Just like Quran for Muslims, Bible for Christians or Bhagavad Gita for Hindus, I'd say JTTW to be near equivalent to such holy sutras/manuscripts (minus the religious overviews)

But even then, presence of Lord Gautama Buddha, Guan Ying Boddhisatva or even Wukong himself said to be loose adaptation of Lord Hanuman (an important deity of Hinduism) APART from the novel's philosophical approach once again reflects its stature beyond ordinary book. Minor thing huh?

Considering age of the source material, you can't expect the drawings/artistry to be appealing. Hell, even some top rung anime shows (thx to MadHouse, BONES & Sunrise) originate from disastrous manga material. Ex: Inuyasha, HXH, One Piece, AoT, Death Note etc

My whole point of this thread was to draw comparison SSJ4 to Sun Wukong which is only possible by using ANY one of Sun Wukong's incarnation. Personally, I picked TVB's Dicky Cheung's portrayal as excellent fit to SSJ4.

1. Both have Great Ape origin.

2. The Monkey X Human cross is evident with tail, thick fur & monkey-like abdominal apperance

3. Goku as SSJ4 showed great deal of seriousness (compared to his Base Kid self that likes to trash talk a lot in GT). Another similarity to Sun Wukong

In short, its these points that I wish to highlight & discuss.

[Kuririn Fan]

Bro, he said it sarcastically, because you mentioned all those things and not the book - the most important part.

[generalred3]

I guess I understand why one would think SSJ4 is an homage to Sun Wukong. However, the character Goku himself is an homage to the Monkey King. I do agree that SSJ4 taking on more of an ape form definitely helps the audience be reminded of the character he is based on. However that is it in my opinion. If Goku started using his Nimbus and power pole, that would be more of an homage. If he chewed on his SSJ4 hair and was able to change them into clones of himself that would also prove they were trying to make him look more like Sun Wukong in appearance. The most obvious thing in my opinion would have been giving SSJ4 golden hair as that is the hair color the Monkey King originally has in the books. Although if he had that, I would assume they only used gold to keep in line with the other SSJ transformations. I see SSJ4 more as an homage to Oozaru and Vegeta's story of the legend more than a Sun Wukong reference. I also believe I remember reading somewhere recently that was what the creators had in mind when creating SSj4. However, Goku is already based on Wukong so I guess it is unavoidable to assume SSJ4 is based on him as well. Just my opinion anyway

[Kamiccolo9]

I guess I understand why one would think SSJ4 is an homage to Sun Wukong. However, the character Goku himself is an homage to the Monkey King. I do agree that SSJ4 taking on more of an ape form definitely helps the audience be reminded of the character he is based on. However that is it in my opinion. If Goku started using his Nimbus and power pole, that would be more of an homage. If he chewed on his SSJ4 hair and was able to change them into clones of himself that would also prove they were trying to make him look more like Sun Wukong in appearance. The most obvious thing in my opinion would have been giving SSJ4 golden hair as that is the hair color the Monkey King originally has in the books. Although if he had that, I would assume they only used gold to keep in line with the other SSJ transformations. I see SSJ4 more as an homage to Oozaru and Vegeta's story of the legend more than a Sun Wukong reference. I also believe I remember reading somewhere recently that was what the creators had in mind when creating SSj4. However, Goku is already based on Wukong so I guess it is unavoidable to assume SSJ4 is based on him as well. Just my opinion anyway

I'm with this. SSJ4 is more of a reference to a reference of Sun Wukong, rather than being directly modeled after him.

Kinda like how Minus Goku seems to be a reference (or shameless rehash) of Superman, instead of, say, Moses.

[sangofe]

I see SSJ4 more as an homage to Oozaru and Vegeta's story of the legend more than a Sun Wukong reference. I also believe I remember reading somewhere recently that was what the creators had in mind when creating SSj4. However, Goku is already based on Wukong so I guess it is unavoidable to assume SSJ4 is based on him as well. Just my opinion anyway

Yes. That's what I meant.

[Cipher]

I always took it for granted that its design was a little Wukong-inspired. Many of his depictions include prominent red and yellow coloration, and Super Saiyan 4 brings back the obvious simian elements.

So I'd guess ... yes? Or at least that was something that went into its design among other aspects?

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

I don't think so directly but it does better connect the tie-ins that the series deviated from for a long time in Z, (and now completely ditched in Super's continuity.)

[shinmaru]

Don't know, maybe it is. But I think the Brolly headband that controls his rage is definitely based of Wukong.

[Vijay]

Don't know, maybe it is. But I think the Brolly headband that controls his rage is definitely based of Wukong.

True. I've always believed Toriyama must have gave the headband input to TOEI during M8's production as the Wukong-esque impression was so evident

In JTTW, The Master (usually known as Tan San Zang) haf enough of handling Wukong's tantrums & used sacred headband to actually control Wukong's rage/aggression by citing mantras

Now in M8, Paragus used the headband on Broly to control his freakish destructive nature, which somehow resonates with an instrument in Paragus's palm. Not forgetting Broly's tragic past bears slight resemblance to Wukong (Emperor Jade would send gods from Heaven to kill off Wukong, but miraculously survives & their fate would clash once again after 50 years)

[sangofe]

Don't know, maybe it is. But I think the Brolly headband that controls his rage is definitely based of Wukong.

True. I've always believed Toriyama must have gave the headband input to TOEI during M8's production as the Wukong-esque impression was so evident

In JTTW, The Master (usually known as Tan San Zang) haf enough of handling Wukong's tantrums & used sacred headband to actually control Wukong's rage/aggression by citing mantras

Now in M8, Paragus used the headband on Broly to control his freakish destructive nature, which somehow resonates with an instrument in Paragus's palm. Not forgetting Broly's tragic past bears slight resemblance to Wukong (Emperor Jade would send gods from Heaven to kill off Wukong, but miraculously survives & their fate would clash once again after 50 years)

As far as I know, Toriyama wasn't involved with the movies other than some character designs?