Interesting Find...

SonGokuGT · Post by **SonGokuGT** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 6:54 pm

Hey all,

I bought the Widescreen boxset as many of you know. Butyesterday I was feeling nostalgic and popped in one of my Ultimate Uncut discs and came accross this:

And it led me to go look for the other two screencaps that Corey posted. Goku getting kneed was clean, however:

So I'm starting to wonder... Did FUNimation just take the shitty masters they already had and do a half-assed remastering job? Was the whole "original Japanese masters" just a load of bull?

I also don't know where to find the shot of the tear in the grass, if someone can post it or tell me when it is that's be cool.

Discuss...

EDIT: Where these scratches on the Dragonbox release?

DBW · Post by **DBW** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:00 pm

SonGokuGT wrote:EDIT: Were these scratches on the Dragonbox release?

No.

So I'm starting to wonder... Did FUNimation just take the shitty masters they already had and do a half-assed remastering job? Was the whole "original Japanese masters" just a load of bull?

No, they got new film masters. They previously only had digibeta broadcast masters (which apparently were more-or-less cleaner). The widescreen wouldn't have been possible with their previous masters.

Yes, they did a half-assed "remastering" job. In fact, they didn't do any real remastering at all, it seems like they just pumped up the usual filtering devices ten-fold.

SonGokuGT · Post by **SonGokuGT** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:02 pm

DBW wrote:
SonGokuGT wrote:EDIT: Were these scratches on the Dragonbox release?
No.

Thus proving that FUNi's "remastering" was definitely a rush job.

Tanooki Kuribo · Post by **Tanooki Kuribo** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:07 pm

Last one, I swear...

fps_anth · Post by **fps_anth** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:09 pm

Ahahahahahahah! Don't stop with captions Kuribo! Please!

And yes, FUNi simply did a half assed job. All that 2 million dollar equipment stuff...all a bunch of bull shit.

SonGokuGT · Post by **SonGokuGT** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:13 pm

They didn't even request new masters... They just took the ones they got for the Ultimate Uncuts and used those... :/ Really lame on their part, they're making it sound like they got the ultimate masters Pony Canyon used, when i reality they're cleaning up the craptacular ones they already have.

Acid_Reign · Post by **Acid_Reign** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:14 pm

Well, the 2 million dollar equipment probably does sell for that price, but I doubt FUNi were the ones to pay for it. My guess is that it was either rented out, or it came with Steve Franko. :P

SonGokuGT wrote:They didn't even request new masters... They just took the ones they got for the Ultimate Uncuts and used those... :/ Really lame on their part, they're making it sound like they got the ultimate masters Pony Canyon used, when i reality they're cleaning up the craptacular ones they already have.

It's possible that the same artifacts appeared in both sources, and they just cleaned up neither.

DBW · Post by **DBW** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:29 pm

SonGokuGT wrote:They didn't even request new masters... They just took the ones they got for the Ultimate Uncuts and used those... :/

No, they're definately working from a different master, it's just not any better than what they previously had (probably a little worse). UUE = digibeta, Season Sets = 16mm film.

I also checked the raw 16mm footage that Pony Canyon used, and the closest damage I could find was a small white dot, although it's found at a different time code. This was all cleaned away for the final product, though.

Dragon Box, original film masters (raw):

Acid_Reign · Post by **Acid_Reign** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:35 pm

Do you actually have DBZ on 16mm? Where did that screenshot come from?

DBW · Post by **DBW** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:41 pm

Acid_Reign wrote:Do you actually have DBZ on 16mm? Where did that screenshot come from?

Dragon Box Z Vol. 2 bonus feature - original film samples.

- Cha-la Head-Cha-La variation #3
- We Gotta Power

Acid_Reign · Post by **Acid_Reign** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:45 pm

DBW wrote:
Acid_Reign wrote:Do you actually have DBZ on 16mm? Where did that screenshot come from?
Dragon Box Z Vol. 2 bonus feature - original film samples.

- Cha-la Head-Cha-La variation #3
- We Gotta Power

Ah; awesome.

EDIT: The discs seem to have a lot of extras. What size capacity is each one, if you know?

JAPPO · Post by **JAPPO** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:45 pm

Hopefully this will straighten everything up. This is based on nothing except what would make the most sense:

ABOUT COLORS: Steve Franko has said, "With a little tweaking you can automatically remaster this show where 20 years ago you could not."

What does this mean?: 20 years ago the technology that "remasters" the show did not exist. I haven't met this person or know anything about the equipment, but it clearly means the show was NOT remastered frame by frame. Rather, they put it through the machines and hoped for the best.

ABOUT DIRT: This is where the remastering should have came in. "Frame by frame" would be to open a program kind of like photoshop and draw or color a part of the film where dirt and glue are. This would be a PAINFUL process that could take months.

FUNimation is far too lazy (who can blame them?) to do this. The dirt MIGHT have existed on the dragon boxes film, but either they DID remaster it frame by frame, or the film was too dark to notice them. That, or they used a perfect, magic copy of the film (:D).

ABOUT WIDESCREEN: FUNimation has said that the top and bottom part of the film was too damaged to repair.

What I think: SOME of the top and bottom was too damaged to repair. This would mean IF they used full screen, there would be a few parts of the film where the frames look HORRIBLE. Most fans are willing to see bad film rather than having widescreen, but FUNimation must have thought it would look awful. This is just my guess.

BRIGHTER COLORS: They have not confirmed this, but for the most part it seems they brightened the colors.

More dirt and glue show because of this.

CHA-LA-HEAD-CHA-LA: They might not have the rights to this song, or they thought the general public would find the song "odd."

THERE. My final opinion on what FUNimation did.

Mystery Person X · Post by **Mystery Person X** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:55 pm

JAPPO wrote:ABOUT DIRT: This is where the remastering should have came in. "Frame by frame" would be to open a program kind of like photoshop and draw or color a part of the film where dirt and glue are. This would be a PAINFUL process that could take months.

FUNimation is far too lazy (who can blame them?) to do this. The dirt MIGHT have existed on the dragon boxes film, but either they DID remaster it frame by frame, or the film was too dark to notice them. That, or they used a perfect, magic copy of the film (:D).

The dirt and damage was cleaned up frame-by-frame for the Dragon Box releases. Scans from the booklets have been posted here that show comparisons of what the original film master looked like and what the DVDs look like; it was clearly fixed by hand.

JAPPO · Post by **JAPPO** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:57 pm

Mystery Person X wrote:
JAPPO wrote:ABOUT DIRT: This is where the remastering should have came in. "Frame by frame" would be to open a program kind of like photoshop and draw or color a part of the film where dirt and glue are. This would be a PAINFUL process that could take months.

FUNimation is far too lazy (who can blame them?) to do this. The dirt MIGHT have existed on the dragon boxes film, but either they DID remaster it frame by frame, or the film was too dark to notice them. That, or they used a perfect, magic copy of the film (:D).
The dirt and damage was cleaned up frame-by-frame for the Dragon Box releases. Scans from the booklets have been posted here that show comparisons of what the original film master looked like and what the DVDs look like; it was clearly fixed by hand.

I didn't say they didn't, I just don't have the dragon boxes so I couldn't say "OMG IT'S CONFIRMED" without someone getting mad if it was not true.

Sun_Wukong · Post by **Sun_Wukong** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:59 pm

Guys, its FUNIMATION, were you honestly expecting anything better? Seriously, you all are complaining for nothing.

Mystery Person X · Post by **Mystery Person X** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 9:01 pm

JAPPO wrote:I didn't say they didn't, I just don't have the dragon boxes so I couldn't say "OMG IT'S CONFIRMED" without someone getting mad if it was not true.

Well, now you have it confirmed. No need to get uptight about it.

Bardock the Mexican · Post by **Bardock the Mexican** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 9:33 pm

I have never seen the little white chili pepper on the frame. Unless it is in every frame, there is no reason why it is such a big deal. After all, that is one of the weaknesses of the frame comparison approach to determining quality of a certain "master" footage. I have never seen this and I own the Ultimate Uncuts for the Mexican dub which they have included.*

*I did a review for the Funi discs a while back. I had to buy the Funi discs because they were the only ones to have it in DVD format. There has been no official Mexican release of DB or DBZ for some time. It is unlikely that Funimation will Spanish subtitle the Japanese track either given the preceding actions with the "Remastered Version" Boxsets.

email2003 · Post by **email2003** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 9:42 pm

Sun_Wukong wrote:Guys, its FUNIMATION, were you honestly expecting anything better? Seriously, you all are complaining for nothing.

Uh....yeah! They did such a great job on Fullmetal, Spiral, Yu Yu Hakusho and etc. we though maybe FUNi had learned thier lesson on DragonBall Z. It seems like they didn't afterall.

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:17 pm

Acid_Reign wrote:Ah; awesome.

EDIT: The discs seem to have a lot of extras. What size capacity is each one, if you know?

They're DVD-9's.

-Corey

SonGokuGT · Post by **SonGokuGT** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:32 pm

Well, looking up on youtube, I saw that the Castilian and German versions have the chili too...

Kanzenshuu

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