Lord Slug's Power Level Re-examine

[Lord Frieza]

Ok I didn't really want to do this thread but if I don't it will keep bugging me.

Ok a few years back I read a dissection somewhere about Slug's power level. There were a a lot of very good augments for and against Slug being stronger then Frieza in his final form.

I'm not here to go over that so much, what I'm trying to get to the bottom of is Goku's power level during the film. That seems to be the key stone for the whole debate.

When ever the topic of Slug's power comes up everyone one says " he's weaker then 3rd for Frieza because thats were the anime was at when the movie came out" or something to that effect. Now I for one believed that myself until I got a though into my head today.

"Yes thats were the anime was, but were was the manga?"

What I found got me thinking. Dragon Ball Z: Super Saiyan Son Goku was released on the 9th of Marcg 1991. Dragon Ball Chapter 317, the chapter were Goku transforms into a Super Saiyan, came out on the 19th of March 1991.

While they have chapter 316 between them, it dose seem like Toei was trying to realise the movie alongside the manga's Super Saiyan reveal.

Know if thats the case then Movie 4's placement in the tv series is inconsequential since its focus was on the mange. As a result Movie 4's actual placement should be just before Goku drops the Genki Dama on Frieza.

That would mean Goku's power level is at it's Frieza fight level (I can't remember the actual numbers), not the Ginyu fight level. That makes Slug, based on what I had read, surpass final form Frieza in power.

Now I am will to admit I am totally wrong on this, it could be that someone else has brought this up before and it was debunked. If so let me know.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

I actually have no issue with Goku being 3 million during the Slug movie.

[Kamiccolo9]

I have no problem with Slug being stronger than the 100% Freeza that Goku beats. Taken at face value, "Stronger than Freeza" means "Stronger than Freeza," not "Stronger than Freeza, but...."

[apex_pretador]

Goku never faced ginyu, never got the "pre super saiyan" zenkai.

No one except freeza's parent(s) know about Freeza's 3rd & Final form.

Goku never got the training in 100g, so the huge power gains can't be there.

[Lord Frieza]

Goku never faced ginyu, never got the "pre super saiyan" zenkai.

No one except freeza's parent(s) know about Freeza's 3rd & Final form.

Goku never got the training in 100g, so the huge power gains can't be there.

Well first every movie is unconnected to the plot of series so we have no idea what happened in that universe befor Goku fought Slug. Goku already knows about gravity training and likely would still ask for one to be made for home.

In a universe were Goku never went to Namek Goku could have been training in the gravity room for a longer period of time, since we don't know when Slug invaded allowing him to get that strong.

Taking that into acount if Turles invaded befor Slug in the timeline then he got a Zenki boost larger then the one he got after his body beat up by Vegeta, Gohan and Trunks.

Or in Slug's universe Goku killed Frieza with the Genki Dama and never became s Super Saiyan.

Since all of that is pure speculation on our part, we can only work out how strong Goku and by extension Slug is based on the events happening in the series at the time. The point I'm making is that since the movie was likely made to coinside with the manga's revieal of Super Saiyan then unlike most of the other movies, movie 4 focuses on the events of the manga not the anime. At that time Goku was fighting Frieza so when Goku fought Slug his would have been at that level wither it should be possable or not.

[dbgtFO]

It will always come down to pure speculation, since all the movies from the original run are seemingly based around the premise, that things have gone back to normal after the respective arcs, from the time the movies were produced in, came to an end.(I don't know, if that is a proper sentence, please bear with me!)

So Slug is supposed to be stronger than Freeza, but when the writers wrote that, they may just have had First Form Freeza and or 2nd Form Freeza in mind, if the manga hadn't revealed him to have more forms by the time they went into production.
But we have no idea about that and though they obviously got it wrong in regards to Super Saiayn Goku, it still does not necessitate, that Slug has to be weaker than 100% Freeza as well.
Sure it's a giant inconsistency, but as Kamiccolo9 posted: "stronger than Freeza" means "stronger than Freeza" not "stronger than Freeza, but...."

But for head-canon purposes, I peg him at slightly below 2nd form Freeza, first reaching that power as a Giant, as per Kaio's "stronger than Freeza" comment

[Polyphase Avatron]

I think we can all agree that false Super Saiyan is weaker than the real version, right? Goku in false SSJ was dominating Slug, but in real SSJ Freeza was still able to put up a fight. So Freeza should be significantly stronger.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Didn't Goku use Kaio-Ken x100 in this movie?

[Lord Frieza]

Well their is no official multiplier for false super Saiyan so it could be weaker. However since it was ment to be the true super saiyan for it could be just as powerful. If it is as some suggest to be, 25x power boost would make Goku a bit stronger then 50% Frieza.

I personal put young Slug so were near Frieza's 50% full power. Maybe equal to 30% or 40%.

His Great Namekian form is more powerful the 100% Full Power Frieza since Goku had to pull a Kaioh-Ken x 100 to seriously damage him.

As for why Slug is so strong as a giant when Piccolo wasen't I would say it's because he's Super Namekian, a mutant and might have trained to get used to the form or used it so much that it had the same effect.y

[Hugo Boss]

I think that, since Goku doesn't use his improved Genkidama in the movie, Slug isn't quite as strong as Freeza or at least the version of Freeza which survived that large Genkidama. This is what I usually go by, but you can still argue Genkidama's size doesn't matter at all.

[Speedster]

I have always considered the thirteen Z movies to be what if scenarios taking place in alternate timelines with different outcomes. For movie 4 it is probably “what if they beat the Ginyu force, took the DBs, wished back Piccolo to restore Earth’s DBs, and went back to Earth (probably by teleporting, and probably by teleporting the Namekians too) without facing Freeza”.

Kaios’ remark that “not even Freeza’s power can stand up to Slug” was followed by “probably not even that of a Super Saiyan”. His statement was made without having previously seen a Super Saiyan (as indicated by his final remark in the movie too) and likely not knowing the full extent of Freeza’s transformations. Freeza is still alive (not even Freeza “can” not “could”) by the way so the events on Namek played out differently in this continuity.

Anyway this whole “Super Namekian” concept is at this point in time, based on Guru’s explanation that had the nameless Namekian not split into Kami and Piccolo he would be more powerful than Freeza. Given that Piccolo was on par with second form Freeza that is where Slug’s power level is imo. Probably his giant form is equivalent to Freeza’s third or initial (not 50%) fourth form. After all Vegeta by that point was speculating that himself and then Goku had become a Super Saiyan but they did not.

As for Goku supposedly doing Kaiokenx100. That was never mentioned in the movie itself. I have seen this mentioned a lot over the internet but I don't know what the source of this speculation is – is it in a guidebook or a video game? Either way it is certainly not mentioned in the movie itsef. Goku just says “Kaioken” without a multiplier.

Goku's base=90K
Goku false SSJ=base*25= 2.25M
Depleted Goku + Piccolo’s energy= 125K -->Kaiokenx20=2500M
Genki Dama=3M
Lord Slug=1.4M
Giant Form=2.2M

[dbgtFO]

As for Goku supposedly doing Kaiokenx100. That was never mentioned in the movie itself. I have seen this mentioned a lot over the internet but I don't know what the source of this speculation is – is it in a guidebook or a video game? Either way it is certainly not mentioned in the movie itsef. Goku just says “Kaioken” without a multiplier.

It comes from some promotional material, that has a page, where Goku uses the Kaioken and with huge letters it says something about how this is Kaioken x100.

[Speedster]

As for Goku supposedly doing Kaiokenx100. That was never mentioned in the movie itself. I have seen this mentioned a lot over the internet but I don't know what the source of this speculation is – is it in a guidebook or a video game? Either way it is certainly not mentioned in the movie itsef. Goku just says “Kaioken” without a multiplier.

It comes from some promotional material, that has a page, where Goku uses the Kaioken and with huge letters it says something about how this is Kaioken x100.

Thanks. Do we have any link to that on here? Was it in the movie 4 promotional pamphlet? For the record the pamphlet of movie 3 (with Tullece) contained some power level values too and most of them were complete non-sense. Just have a look below:

Spoiler:

So yeah these pamphlets are not something to put too much faith on.