How do your DB language preferences relate to others?

[Adamant]

The idea of communities of functioning adults so opposed to reading they want the audio of their foreign entertainment replaced for them being so large they're actually able to support an entire industry is absolutely ridiculous.

Might I ask why?

I thought it mostly spoke for itself, but...
It's an industry that actively harms the viewers' experience by eliminating the original audio part of the product that's being supported by functioning adults who WANTS such a reduced experience because the alternative involves them reading, and they don't want to read. And that's on top of the fact that dubbing actively harms children's development by both hurting their literacy and reading speed AND reducing their exposure to foreign languages.

Hell, correct me if I'm wrong, but you're still considered a normal functioning adult in America even if you're outright incapable of reading fast enough to follow a standard subtitled movie, aren't you? That's not a positive thing.


(and let's just ignore the nonsense about how watching English media in English makes you "a weeb" or whatever that argument was supposed to be about)

[VegettoEX]

As irritating as Adamant's initial comments come across, at least he's using his words here. That's something that we actively encourage.

If you disagree with his non-American viewpoint on dubbings, actively engage in conversation, or move along and do the normal thing of laughing about it on some other forum. Thanks!

[ABED]

It's an industry that actively harms the viewers' experience by eliminating the original audio part of the product that's being supported by functioning adults who WANTS such a reduced experience because the alternative involves them reading, and they don't want to read. And that's on top of the fact that dubbing actively harms children's development by both hurting their literacy and reading speed AND reducing their exposure to foreign languages.

It hurting the experience and children's development is a HUGE stretch. I like reading as much as the next person, but I'll admit that it's not my preference to both read and watch at the same time. I would argue that by focusing on reading on the subtitles, it distracts from the images on screen especially when there are large chunks of dialog.

[Adamant]

It hurting the experience and children's development is a HUGE stretch.

Not at all. Educators in general agree on this, (and it's honestly pretty common sense anyway. Reading more makes a child a better reader. Exposure to languages increases their familiarity with it.)

I would argue that by focusing on reading on the subtitles, it distracts from the images on screen especially when there are large chunks of dialog.

This is probably going to net me another elitism accusation or whatever, but the problem lies solely with your own literacy and your own ability to concentrate and focus on multiple things at the same time, not with the concept of subtitles itself. People that consume more subtitled media than you do don't have this problem, since it's caused by inexperience. Just watch more subs and you'll get past your problems.

I'm fairly sure I've explained this before as well.

[Ajay]

This is probably going to net me another elitism accusation or whatever, but the problem lies solely with your own literacy and your own ability to concentrate and focus on multiple things at the same time, not with the concept of subtitles itself. People that consume more subtitled media than you do don't have this problem, since it's caused by inexperience. Just watch more subs and you'll get past your problems.

Definitely agree with this one.

It always blows my mind when I see people saying that they miss things while reading subtitles. I forget subtitles are even there most of the time. It's a quick glance down and I've already taken in the line before anything's even moved above it. I started watching subtitled films as young as 8 when I got obsessed with the wuxia genre (of course I had no idea that's what it was called at the time). 15 years later and hundreds of subtitled films/anime later and it's just never ever been a problem. It's absolutely all about inexperience. Heck, even my severely dyslexic girlfriend rarely misses anything, even if she does occasionally misread a sentence or name.

I think it's definitely a culture issue. Though the UK is slightly more dub-orientated, Europe is generally very comfortable with subtitles. The large majority of major films all come out in English, so you either learn that language or you get used to reading subtitles. Few people are interested in an awkward adaptation. From my experience in the US, it's absolutely not the same case there, sadly.

[Saikyo no Senshi]

I am assuming this thread is about which language do you prefer while watching DB. I have this purity thing i want to watch everything in its original form. DB is a Japanese show so i prefer the JPN version if it was Italian i would've watched it in Italian. Even if FUNI's DB or any other language dub was the best dub on the planet i would still prefer the original.

Regarding the whole issue of subtitles i don't think it's that much of a problem as some make it out to be i didn't have a problem. I find the subtitle problem just one of the many invalid reasons fans of other dubs mostly the fans of the English version have for not wanting to watch the original.

- Travis

[ABED]

Not at all. Educators in general agree on this, (and it's honestly pretty common sense anyway. Reading more makes a child a better reader. Exposure to languages increases their familiarity with it.)

It is a HUGE stretch. Reading is great, but them not reading subtitles isn't going to harm their ability to learn one single bit.

This is probably going to net me another elitism accusation or whatever, but the problem lies solely with your own literacy and your own ability to concentrate and focus on multiple things at the same time, not with the concept of subtitles itself. People that consume more subtitled media than you do don't have this problem, since it's caused by inexperience. Just watch more subs and you'll get past your problems.

I'm fairly sure I've explained this before as well.

No, I'm just human. If my eyes are concentrating on the bottom of the screen, they are naturally not on the rest of the image. I'm not saying it's a HUGE problem, just that there is an issue. I'm in no way inexperience with subtitles. I've watched anime like this for a decade and a half, but it's still an issue. I like to concentrate on the artwork as a hole and not focus towards one area. My preference is to see the entire image as well as performance. They say the eyes are the window to the sole, so I'd rather not have to dart my eyes from the bottom of the screen to an actors face and then down again when I'm watching something. The issue is not a lack of focus, but of having to focus on the wrong area. All other things being equal, I prefer hearing things in English, which is why the great Kai dub was such a blessing. But they aren't equal, so the best option for me watching the show is the original, even if I have to read the subtitles. On a scale of 1-10, reading subtitles is a 2.

And yes, your tone is very elitist. You've assumed WAY too much before you responded.

[VegettoEX]

But we know the science behind the way people read words, which is to say they recognize patterns of characters and don't actually need to individually read every word (never mind individual letter) to still 100% accurately read and comprehend sentences.

Thus, the viewpoint that if you're caught up in subtitles and somehow manage to miss that much, the problem lies with your own individual reading comprehension, and is not the fault of written language itself.

I, too, have a hard time understanding how a literate, grown adult cannot read subtitles, enjoy the blistering 12fps animation of Dragon Ball, and still not also catch everything including actor inflections. And that has nothing to do with dub/sub preference, but rather the actual ability to simply just watch the show subtitled.

[Super Sonic]

Hey Ajay, what are your thoughts on DB's sister shows like "Black Butler" or "Hetalia" that take place in England and thus the characters have British accents or just having accents in the dub that make sense? Know a lot of guys who like that those shows have accents and the actors said they enjoyed getting to do them.

[Adamant]

Reading is great, but them not reading subtitles isn't going to harm their ability to learn one single bit.

What? If they read subtitles, they read. More exposure to subtitles means they read more. This is why schools do reading assignments to children in the first place: To make them read more. A child that watches 20 hours of subtitled media a week is highly likely to be a better reader than a kid that only watches things in his own language.

No, I'm just human.

So are the people that have no problems with it. It's either inexperience or a mental handicap. If it's the latter, okay, but that doesn't make it "part of being human", it makes it a personal problem it's still in your best interest to work on.

(and no, I'm not calling you mentally damaged for watching dubs, please no angry replies claiming that's what I did)

[ABED]

But we know the science behind the way people read words, which is to say they recognize patterns of characters and don't actually need to individually read every word (never mind individual letter) to still 100% accurately read and comprehend sentences.

Thus, the viewpoint that if you're caught up in subtitles and somehow manage to miss that much, the problem lies with your own individual reading comprehension, and is not the fault of written language itself.

I, too, have a hard time understanding how a literate, grown adult cannot read subtitles, enjoy the blistering 12fps animation of Dragon Ball, and still not also catch everything including actor inflections. And that has nothing to do with dub/sub preference, but rather the actual ability to simply just watch the show subtitled.

Because there's more than an inflections. That's the audible component.

So are the people that have no problems with it. It's either inexperience or a mental handicap. If it's the latter, okay, but that doesn't make it "part of being human", it makes it a personal problem it's still in your best interest to work on.

(and no, I'm not calling you mentally damaged for watching dubs, please no angry replies claiming that's what I did)

That's a false alternative, I'm neither mentally handicapped and there's a difference between NO issue and a VERY mild issue. I prefer to take in TV shows and movies at a whole and concentrate where my eyes are being directed, not at the words on the screen. I've already told you I have at least 16 years worth of experience watching subtitles, but again ALL OTHER THINGS BEING HELD EQUAL, I prefer not to.

This is why schools do reading assignments to children in the first place: To make them read more.

It's not the same thing. Reading is an active process but one that can be done at your own pace. If you are watching something, you aren't reading at your own pace and take the entire thing in.

A child that watches 20 hours of subtitled media a week is highly likely to be a better reader than a kid that only watches things in his own language.

Not the same thing as being harmed. The kid who doesn't watch subtitles isn't worse off because some is arguably mildly better off. This also assumes everything else is held constant.

[Dbzfan94]

As others have said I have no issue reading subtitles or watching the show in the original language. I still prefer Dragon Ball dubbed. Just because of that it doesn't make me any less intelligent like Adamant seems to imply in his first post. It just comes off as beyond rude and arrogant and I've personally seen it happen multiple other times in the past.

Back on topic, it really goes by whatever I see first is what I tend to gravitate towards. DB I can now (mostly) switch freely and be okay. As another example back when I was into Naruto in 2005 I discovered the sub and switched to that very early on in the shows American run. After that I could never really enjoy the dub as much after that. Not that it was bad, just lost some of the enjoyment.

[ABED]

Even watching DB in JPN is a bit of an acquired taste. I wasn't immediately enamored with it, much like I didn't love Metallica the first time I heard them, but came around to loving them.

[Adamant]

That's a false alternative

No, it really isn't. You're claiming to have a problem with something and that it's because you're human. So why is it that other people are saying they don't have that problem? Are you saying they're not human? Are you saying they're lying? You can't say your problem is part of being human when it's already been established that's not the case.

[Kamiccolo9]

Speaking as a "functioning adult" who probably has to read more (as in, sheer amount of material a day) than anybody else in this thread, and has no issues with subtitles or other languages, sometimes I just want to go home after work, and listen to TV in the background while I do other stuff. My current schedule consists of working on my thesis until about 7, then going on a crazy multitasking spree with FFXIV, Doctor Who (previously FMA Brotherhood, dubbed, Attack on Titan, subbed, etc.), Kanzenshuu, and my current re-read of Don Quixote (translated, you may be interested in knowing, because I deal with enough foreign material daily that I occasionally like to not have to bother deciphering every word because my Spanish isn't quite on an unconscious level as of yet.)

The point to all this being, sometimes I don't want to use subs. It has nothing to do with a cultural stigma against other languages, or laziness, or not being especially literate. I just want to relax, and have TV on in the background while I do other stuff, and it defeats the purpose if I can't understand what's being said, and don't want to be bothered with having to look up at the screen every few seconds so I can catch a line. If I'm watching TV solely for the purpose of watching TV, I'll generally watch the program in its native language, but that's a rare enough occurrence.

[ABED]

That's a false alternative

No, it really isn't. You're claiming to have a problem with something and that it's because you're human. So why is it that other people are saying they don't have that problem? Are you saying they're not human? Are you saying they're lying? You can't say your problem is part of being human when it's already been established that's not the case.

It is. It's not either or. I'm not saying they're lying, but "no problem" can mean different things. It can be hyperbole. So what I say there's a problem, it's so mild. I would even in a different context say that I don't have an issue with subtitles, and I wouldn't be contradicting myself. I don't have a big issue with it, just that ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL I prefer to watch something without subtitles so I can concentrate on the picture as a whole. Sometimes, if there's a big chunk of dialog, I have rewind or pause just to take it all in, which while not a big issue, it's not a preference. I don't like interrupting the flow of a story.

It is a false alternative because I'm self supporting literate adult who has watched subtitled shows and movies for decades, thus negating your two alternatives. Then there's Kamicollo's point. A good dub will get allow the audience to experience the show and get as much of the original as possible.

[Adamant]

The point to all this being, sometimes I don't want to use subs. It has nothing to do with a cultural stigma against other languages, or laziness, or not being especially literate. I just want to relax, and have TV on in the background while I do other stuff, and it defeats the purpose if I can't understand what's being said, and don't want to be bothered with having to look up at the screen every few seconds so I can catch a line. If I'm watching TV solely for the purpose of watching TV, I'll generally watch the program in its native language, but that's a rare enough occurrence.

Work with me here, though.
Your life situation is obviously not some crazy unique one. Lots of people find themselves in that same situation. And if those people lived in a country where foreign entertainment far outnumbered locally produced entertainment AND was not available dubbed, those people that felt the same way you did would rarely ever watch any foreign entertainment at all, for the reasons you state. Yet this situation descried here doesn't really exist. Nobody here watches ONLY Norwegian TV because they "just want to relax".

So what makes this the case for you? I don't have an answer to that, but it's obviously something non-universal.

[Kamiccolo9]

The point to all this being, sometimes I don't want to use subs. It has nothing to do with a cultural stigma against other languages, or laziness, or not being especially literate. I just want to relax, and have TV on in the background while I do other stuff, and it defeats the purpose if I can't understand what's being said, and don't want to be bothered with having to look up at the screen every few seconds so I can catch a line. If I'm watching TV solely for the purpose of watching TV, I'll generally watch the program in its native language, but that's a rare enough occurrence.

Work with me here, though.
Your life situation is obviously not some crazy unique one. Lots of people find themselves in that same situation. And if those people lived in a country where foreign entertainment far outnumbered locally produced entertainment AND was not available dubbed, those people that felt the same way you did would rarely ever watch any foreign entertainment at all, for the reasons you state. Yet this situation descried here doesn't really exist. Nobody here watches ONLY Norwegian TV because they "just want to relax".

So what makes this the case for you? I don't have an answer to that, but it's obviously something non-universal.

That's true enough. One difference, for instance, may be that I have more access to material dubbed in my own language than someone in Norway might? I admit I'm not too familiar with the entertainment situation there. I could watch stuff subbed in these instances (I mentioned Attack on Titan above) but honestly, the quality of the material has to be enough to hold my interest over the other things I'm doing. I rarely have TV on as the primary source of entertainment

In my specific instance, my thesis, without going too in depth, covers European genocides, and I'm using materials in about 9 different languages, only 1 of which I have any real understanding of (German.) Being able to enjoy something in my own language after 12+ hours a day having to decipher languages I'm unfamiliar with is enjoyable in and of itself, even before factoring in the material.

[ABED]

Nobody here watches ONLY Norwegian TV because they "just want to relax".

Because people don't have only one mood or preference. Sometimes people just want to come home and relax one day, and other days, they are in the mood for the original with subtitles. I like to at least have the option.

[Bansho64]

Using english subtitles with the original version will never be a hindrance since I enjoy it so much. Japanese will always be the best and my favorite but lately I have been finding myself growing more and more curious of what's on "the other side" of the fandom. There are many in our group that love the different dubs that the franchise have gotten. Not all of them have liked it because of nostalgia. There are actually people who prefer the dubs over the original. I've been trying to understand where these people are coming from since I was pretty much still a baby when most of these dubs ended. Ocean has been one that I've been growing a certain fondness for since I discovered it a few months back. It's very inaccurate in certain places but I've found myself enjoying the voices and even starting to like the music too. It may sound stupid but I've found myself enjoying going through the 53 Ocean dubbed episodes and the 3 movies more than I enjoyed going through the 291 episodes of Funimation's dub.