The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Khin]

Also I am certain 10x kaioken would only anime idea as they tend to over power some scenes or character, however using just kaioken with blue was enough to scare beerus as would be at the most 14 but including stamina issue and risk plus using it only in short burst beerus would win also possible beerus could freeze goku for time being with some technique as dbs focused to show more about technique.

There's no way to tell for now if the Kaio-ken was just a TOEI idea or not. Also, Beerus wasn't scared because of Goku's power, he was nervous because the Kaio-ken multiplies the user's power. Vados said that Champa can punish Hit and Goku at anytime, implying Champa can wreck both Hit and KKx10 Goku, but she wouldn't allow it because she would like to see how the match would end. Goku said Monaka is stronger than him, I'm pretty sure the line where Monaka can give Beerus a hard time if he's serious was form Toriyama's draft, Hit who was supposedly be able kill Goku had he use his Full Power against the latter was hesitant to attack Champa.

Plus, A 40% gap is huge. If Goku can sustain the Kaio-ken x10 for a few minutes. Then he can sure handle regular Kaio-ken longer than that.

[ssbgoku]

Also I am certain 10x kaioken would only anime idea as they tend to over power some scenes or character, however using just kaioken with blue was enough to scare beerus as would be at the most 14 but including stamina issue and risk plus using it only in short burst beerus would win also possible beerus could freeze goku for time being with some technique as dbs focused to show more about technique.

There's no way to tell for now if the Kaio-ken was just a TOEI idea or not. Also, Beerus wasn't scared because of Goku's power, he was nervous because the Kaio-ken multiplies the user's power. Vados said that Champa can punish Hit and Goku at anytime, implying Champa can wreck both Hit and KKx10 Goku, but she wouldn't allow it because she would like to see how the match would end. Goku said Monaka is stronger than him, I'm pretty sure the line where Monaka can give Beerus a hard time if he's serious was form Toriyama's draft, Hit who was supposedly be able kill Goku had he use his Full Power against the latter was hesitant to attack Champa.

Plus, A 40% gap is huge. If Goku can sustain the Kaio-ken x10 for a few minutes. Then he can sure handle regular Kaio-ken longer than that.

Let's wait and see the manga of hit vs goku battle. I can bet everything that Alira will make him only use of kaioken x2 aka regular one. Adding fact that only 10% complete technique is I can see akira putting restrictuons on it. Maybe beerus could just hard enough to male
Goku ki explode hisbody.

Also hit didnt power up to hang with goku just used improved time leap to go past goku's defence.

Moreover goku used only kkx10 with kamehameha and then regular kaioken as he is known for powering up and down whiile using kaioken see namek frieeza battle

[Khin]

Let's wait and see the manga of hit vs goku battle. I can bet everything that Alira will make him only use of kaioken x2 aka regular one. Adding fact that only 10% complete technique is I can see akira putting restrictuons on it. Maybe beerus could just hard enough to male
Goku ki explode hisbody.

Also hit didnt power up to hang with goku just used improved time leap to go past goku's defence.

Moreover goku used only kkx10 with kamehameha and then regular kaioken as he is known for powering up and down whiile using kaioken see namek frieeza battle

I didn't say anything about Hit powering up. It was stated that he was holding back against Goku. And no, we got no indication or statement saying that Goku powered down to x2 after using x10. Saying Goku is stronger than Beerus is just ridiculous. We got several implication of the latter being stronger.

• Toryaima himself saying that he has no plans for Goku and Vegeta surpassing Beerus and Whis.
• Goku saying that Monaka is stronger than him. Who was stated to be able to give Beerus a hard time if he's serious, which I'm pretty sure was from Toriyama's draft.
• Vados saying that Champa (who is weaker than Beerus) can punish Goku and Hit at anytime.
• Hit, who was supposedly capable of killing Goku had he use all his effort was hesitant to attack Champa.
• Surpassing Beerus or Champa even if its only in raw power is a very big feat. Yet Zeno, Whis or anyone didn't say anything about it.

[ssbgoku]

Let's wait and see the manga of hit vs goku battle. I can bet everything that Alira will make him only use of kaioken x2 aka regular one. Adding fact that only 10% complete technique is I can see akira putting restrictuons on it. Maybe beerus could just hard enough to male
Goku ki explode hisbody.

Also hit didnt power up to hang with goku just used improved time leap to go past goku's defence.

Moreover goku used only kkx10 with kamehameha and then regular kaioken as he is known for powering up and down whiile using kaioken see namek frieeza battle

I didn't say anything about Hit powering up. It was stated that he was holding back against Goku. And no, we got no indication or statement saying that Goku powered down to x2 after using x10. Saying Goku is stronger than Beerus is just ridiculous. We got several implication of the latter being stronger.

• Toryaima himself saying that he has no plans for Goku and Vegeta surpassing Beerus and Whis.
• Goku saying that Monaka is stronger than him. Who was stated to be able to give Beerus a hard time if he's serious, which I'm pretty sure was from Toriyama's draft.
• Vados saying that Champa (who is weaker than Beerus) can punish Goku and Hit at anytime.
• Hit, who was supposedly capable of killing Goku had he use all his effort was hesitant to attack Champa.
• Surpassing Beerus or Champa even if its only in raw power is a very big feat. Yet Zeno, Whis or anyone didn't say anything about it.

Well Hard to say as Akira is really unpredictable mangaka/man. However introduction the guys like zeno and his guards rather hints to goku suprassing or at least being on par for short brief time while using kaioken. Beerus's reaction couldn't be more clear and simple. I will wait and see, but at this point it can go either way.

[Khin]

Well Hard to say as Akira is really unpredictable mangaka/man. However introduction the guys like zeno and his guards rather hints to goku suprassing or at least being on par for short brief time while using kaioken. Beerus's reaction couldn't be more clear and simple. I will wait and see, but at this point it can go either way.

No he didn't. Zeno came because he wanted to give Beerus and Champa a heads up because they're neglecting their jobs as God of Destruction, not that he came because Goku surpassed or became on par with Beerus or something. As said before, Beerus was nervous because he heard that Kaio-ken multiplies the user's power. They're like 5 stuff that i posted that heavily implied that Goku is still weaker than Champa and Beerus. And i see no reason why one would deny those.

[Overlord78]

New matches:

1% Full Power Beerus runs the gauntlet: (Survival matches/no healing)

- SSJ2 Vegeta (BoG)
- SSJ3 Goku (BoG)
- Super Gotenks 3 (BoG)
- Ultimate Gohan (BoG)
- SSJ3 Gogeta (BoG)

Beerus clears without batting an eyelid.

He needed 10% to deal with a tired ssj2 who was damaged with anger boost. SSj2 vegeta is like 4% of beerus' power.

And Vegeta put up a better fight than everyone else who fought Beerus including SSJ3 Goku and Buu. The rage boost he got was just ridiculous.

[Pocket-God]

How about a little gauntlet with Piko-yo (XD)

Piccolo (Post King Kai/Namek Arrival/Pre Nail Fusion)

1. Krillin and Gohan (Post Guru)
2. Recoome
3. Burter
4. Jeice
5. Burter and Jeice
6. Base Goku (Namek Arrival)
7. Captain Ginyu
8. KaioKen Goku (Vs Ginyu)
9. Vegeta (Vs First Form Frieza)
10. First Form Frieza

So, how far does he get? I'm thinking maybe 6 or 7

[Khin]

Piccolo (Post King Kai/Namek Arrival/Pre Nail Fusion)

1. Krillin and Gohan (Post Guru)
2. Recoome
3. Burter
4. Jeice
5. Burter and Jeice
6. Base Goku (Namek Arrival)
7. Captain Ginyu
8. KaioKen Goku (Vs Ginyu)
9. Vegeta (Vs First Form Frieza)
10. First Form Frieza

Piccolo pwns everyone until hitting a brick wall against Vegeta.

Piccolo actually believed he can save Gohan from Freeza, which led me to believe he can be some help to them. Nail also said that if Piccolo and Kami were to become one again, his power would surpass Freeza. And since I'm one of those people who have the Piccolo-Kami fusion a 2x boost. I have Piccolo at the 250,000 range before merging with Nail, which is still way below than Vegeta, who i have at the 450,000 range.

[Kaboom]

Future Android #18 and Future Android #17 vs Android #17
Yamcha and Kuririn (First Arc) vs Son Goku (First Arc) - No knowledge of the tail weakness
Base Goku and Base Vegeta(BoG) vs Freeza (Namek Arc)

— There's implied to be quite a substantial difference in power between the present Android twins and the weaker ones Trunks fought. Seventeen Prime is probably going to win this one.
— I'm thinking Goku cleans house here. At this early point in the story, his Saiyan physiology is still giving him a huge advantage over most folks in raw strength, speed, and durability. Going at him 2-on-1 isn't going to matter.
— Either of them alone still isn't quite a match for Freeza (discounting things like Kaio-Ken), but together the two of them could beat him.

17 VS 18

Literally everything out there says that Seventeen is the stronger of the two. The only way Eighteen could win is by surprising him with some new technique she learned from Kuririn or something.

Beerus Vs Omega Shenron

No factual answer possible because there's no good way to compare GT's top powers to the gods... but if there's anyone from GT I could reasonably see being too much for Beerus, it's Super Yi Xing Long and SS4 Gogeta.

- Dr. Uiro's henchmen (Ebifurya, Kishime, Misokatsun) vs. 3 Namekian warriors.
- Garlic Junior (film 1) vs. Yajirobe (post-Kami training).
- Kid Boo vs. Mr. Boo and Kibitoshin.
- Master Roshi (RRA arc) vs. The Red Ribbon Army.

— The Bio-Warriors have official power levels from that old Movie 3 pamphlet of 4,300, 7,000, and 7,500. As long as those are lesser than the person who beat them (Goku with at least his Saiyan-arc 8,000 power), then I'm fine with them. So as a whole the young Namekians (all around 3,000) are outclassed and beaten.
— At his strongest, the fat Majin Boo was probably only around half as strong as SS3 Goku or Pure Boo, and the merged Kaioshin is probably only on a high Super Saiyan 2 level. Pure Boo picks both of them apart at once while laughing about it.
— Garlic was almost certainly a good chunk weaker than Raditz, since Goku and Piccolo were able to do pretty well against him 2-vs-1 without resorting to desperation moves and suicide tactics. Unless Garlic's immortal, then Yajirobe could possibly manage to chop off his head or something and win that way. I don't think the odds are in his favor though.
— Muten Roshi MIGHT be able to pull it off. As I recall, he was only uncertain about having the stamina for it.

Grey Buu vs. SS2 Vegeta [Post Majin]
Good Buu [Right after the splitting] vs. SS2 Teen Gohan [25th TB]

I think the Super Saiyans can probably win both these fights. Fat Boo's full power in my book would be a little more than double SS2 Gohan's and a little below double SS2 Goku or Vegeta's. Depending on just how unevenly Boo's power got split up between the fat and skinny Boos, Vegeta might have a hard time with the latter.

Yajirobe vs Jaco

Jaco from his own original story probably couldn't win. But if he's significantly stronger 30+ years later during Resurrection F, then he's got this in the bag.

How about a little gauntlet with Piko-yo (XD)

We don't have much to go by for Piccolo's strength before his merger with Nail... However, my gut says that he'd be able to beat the mid-range Ginyu Force fighters, but isn't a match for Goku or Ginyu. He seemed confident in his ability to fight someone significantly stronger than Vegeta, but only until he actually sensed Freeza, and realistically he could only get so much stronger in the short time he was on Kaio's. I sincerely doubt he even got close to a PL of 100,000.

[DanielSSJ]

How about a little gauntlet with Piko-yo (XD)

We don't have much to go by for Piccolo's strength before his merger with Nail... However, my gut says that he'd be able to beat the mid-range Ginyu Force fighters, but isn't a match for Goku or Ginyu. He seemed confident in his ability to fight someone significantly stronger than Vegeta, but only until he actually sensed Freeza, and realistically he could only get so much stronger in the short time he was on Kaio's. I sincerely doubt he even got close to a PL of 100,000.

Chapter: 295 (DBZ 101), P1.4, P2.1-5, P3.1
Nail: “I-I’m astonished…I don’t know what kind of training you’ve done, but you’ve acquired unbelievable power…Still, it’s unfortunate…If you had only returned to the original, single Namekian you were, you might have been able to defeat even Freeza…”
Piccolo: “Are you saying that if I merged with God once again, my power would even surpass Freeza!?”
Nail: “Th-that’s right…I was overwhelmingly defeated by Freeza, but I should have a good comprehension of his abilities…[ ] So merge with me…! I’m also the only fighting-type Namekian on this planet…[ ] That’s right…Your power will become many times greater…”
Piccolo: “…You’re not lying, are you?”
Nail: “If you think so, you can just go get killed by Freeza…”

Nail says that if Piccolo merged with Kami, he would've been a match for Freeza (presumably first form Freeza), and I know you go with the idea that recombining would just double Piccolo's strength, so I'm curious how you rationalize this right here. Is Nail full of crap?

[Kaboom]

Got me there. I'm torn between what's implied about Piccolo's gains from merging with Kami and somehow rationalizing what would be a beyond-ridiculous training increase. Piccolo going from about 3,000 all the way up to several hundreds of thousands from just a few days of training in 10Gs... that would even trump what Goku achieved from a straight week of training in up to 100Gs, to say nothing of what he gained from his own time at Kaio's.

I guess, in the context of Piccolo's training... that maybe being split apart from Kami hurts his potential for growth too? So maybe if he had re-joined, and THEN trained, he'd be even stronger and possibly a match for 1st-form Freeza. Either that, or maybe the idea of Piccolo's power only re-doubling from the merger itself could be re-examined. Either option would be better than Piccolo just astronomically blowing Goku out of the water with the Kaio training.

[In Brightest Day]

More fights :

- Broli (Second Coming) vs. Paikuhan.
- Cyborg Tao vs. Chaozu and Muten Roshi (23rd Budokai).
- SSJ2 Son Goku (Boo arc) vs. Super Perfect Cell.
- Lord Slug (young) vs. Krillin, Tenshinhan, Yamcha (Revival of F).
- Piccolo (Trunks arc) vs. Freeza (3rd form).
- SSJ Vegeta (beginning of GT) vs. Ledgic.

[DanielSSJ]

Got me there. I'm torn between what's implied about Piccolo's gains from merging with Kami and somehow rationalizing what would be a beyond-ridiculous training increase. Piccolo going from about 3,000 all the way up to several hundreds of thousands from just a few days of training in 10Gs... that would even trump what Goku achieved from a straight week of training in up to 100Gs, to say nothing of what he gained from his own time at Kaio's.

I guess, in the context of Piccolo's training... that maybe being split apart with Kami hurts his potential for growth too? So maybe if he had re-joined, and THEN trained, he'd be even stronger and possibly a match for 1st-form Freeza. Either that, or maybe the idea of Piccolo's power only re-doubling from the merger itself could be re-examined. Either option would be better than Piccolo just astronomically blowing Goku out of the water with the Kaio training.

I guess I could see the training thing. That's my rationale for how Piccolo seems to increase his strength 100-fold between the end of the Freeza arc and the start of the Android arc.

More fights :

- Broli (Second Coming) vs. Paikuhan.
- Cyborg Tao vs. Chaozu and Muten Roshi (23rd Budokai).
- SSJ2 Son Goku (Boo arc) vs. Super Perfect Cell.
- Lord Slug (young) vs. Krillin, Tenshinhan, Yamcha (Revival of F).
- Piccolo (Trunks arc) vs. Freeza (3rd form).
- SSJ Vegeta (beginning of GT) vs. Ledgic.

- By the tenth movie, Broli would be more than a little stronger than SS2 Goku and Majin Vegeta, so I doubt Paikuhan could handle him on his own.
- If Chaozu can distract Taopaipai long enough for Roshi to nail him with a Max. Power Kamehameha, than they could win. Otherwise, I think Taopaipai would just be too strong and too ruthless for them.
- Goku should be at least as smidge stronger than Cell by that point. While Cell will put up a good fight, Goku will eventually take the win.
- Young Slug is stated by Kaio to be even stronger than Freeza (presumably his first Form) and that's a line I don't think the earthlings ever cross. Unless they get lucky with the Kienzan or the Kikoho, Slug is gonna stomp them.
- Piccolo's most likely surpassed third form Freeza by now.
- I don't normally do GT matches, but if SS Goku was able to slap around Legic, shouldn't Vegeta be able to do so as well?

[BitchIlooklikeGoku]

Captain Planet



vs

Beerus

[DanielSSJ]

Captain Planet



vs

Beerus

Beerus destroys planets for a living.

[In Brightest Day]

Don Cheadle all day.

[Lord Beerus]

Base Goku (Post U6/Champa arc) runs a gauntlet. How far does he go before he hits a brick wall?

Kid Boo
Super Boo
Super Boo (w/Piccolo)
SSJ Gotenks (Post ROSAT)
SSJ3 Gotenks (Post ROSAT)
Super Boo (w/Piccolo, Goten and Trunks)
Ultimate Gohan
Bootenks
Boohan

[dbgtFO]

Base Goku (Post U6/Champa arc) runs a gauntlet. How far does he go before he hits a brick wall?

Kid Boo
Super Boo
Super Boo (w/Piccolo)
SSJ Gotenks (Post ROSAT)
SSJ3 Gotenks (Post ROSAT)
Super Boo (w/Piccolo, Goten and Trunks)
Ultimate Gohan
Bootenks
Boohan

He doesn't hit a brick wall and instead just one-shots the lot of them.

[RandomGuy96]

Base Goku (Post U6/Champa arc) runs a gauntlet. How far does he go before he hits a brick wall?

Kid Boo
Super Boo
Super Boo (w/Piccolo)
SSJ Gotenks (Post ROSAT)
SSJ3 Gotenks (Post ROSAT)
Super Boo (w/Piccolo, Goten and Trunks)
Ultimate Gohan
Bootenks
Boohan

Well, base Copy Vegeta wasn't able to put down a version of SS3 Gotenks weaker than his Buu arc version in one blow despite explicitly trying to kill him, and Gotenks was actually able to block some hits from him. Meaning he can't really be more than twice as strong as Gotenks, or else we'd have a Nappa vs Tenshinhan situation. So post-tournament base Goku is about Ultimate Gohan level.

In that case, Goku beats Gohan after a tough fight, breezes through the first six fights, and then gets beaten down by Buutenks.

[Hellspawn28]

GT Uub (Before fusing with Buu) vs. Legic

Who wins?