Do we expect too much from Super?

[LightBing]

My problem with the phrase is how empty it is, redundant really. It doesn't help any conversations and it doesn't make any points.
In my country we have an idiom "frases feitas", which translates do "made sentences". It's like automatic expressions, said by those who have little or nothing to offer regarding a topic and offer this "frase feita" and fool people into thinking they actually know something.
In this case, I've seen the "It's Goku and Vegeta show" being used as an attempted all around insult.
Criticizing Super for not using it's cast at large couldn't be more justified.

Returning to the topic of the thread, I don't expect Super to dwell much into secondary characters:

• First, some of them have had their story-lines closed, Kuririn for example has obtained what he wished for when he was introduced. I suspect of Mr.Toriyama's desire and imagination to add dimension to these characters in a compelling way that feels like Dragon Ball.
• Second, there's a lack of courage to let the secondary characters carry the show. I primarily blame Super writers. Mr.Toriyama doesn't suffer from this, he diminished his opportunity's due to power creep. Which it's his own fault of course, but he doesn't show fear to sideline Goku and give the show to other characters.
• Third, there's the invisible forces of money working, Goku sells more than the others.

[TekTheNinja]

Piccolo fight in the tournament is the perfect example, we were promised a fight and we got it. They didn't say, Piccolo trained and is super strong or any other kind of hype.

Don't even. That episode completely shit on Piccolo. I'd much rather he not be there at all then to be completely fucked over as a character.

Add in the Gohan teasing, the Majin Buu teasing, and most recently (and also kinda in the RoF arc) Gotenks teasing, and you have a show that shits on other characters and has two characters that have become more unlikable as the main focus though they never develop as characters anymore.

The opening song with Goku and Vegeta ahead of everybody else couldn't be more direct.

The opening heavily features ALL the characters. There's pretty much a clip for everybody even if they haven't even spoken more than a sentence in the show.

Must I add that the side characters actually fucking speaking more would be a HUGE improvement?

[LightBing]

I disagree that Piccolo was portrayed poorly, that discussion doesn't belong here. I repeat, did the show promise any specific development? Did they say Piccolo was gonna win and the characters would bow to him or whatever? No.

You were criticizing the under-utilization of the cast. But it seems if they all participated, had an episode for each. It would still be crap if they lost their fight's? So not shitting on the characters is having them super strong, even if it's by contrived means and all sharing the villains kills?

Gohan was the main focus of the first part of RoF, just because he got beaten and suffered from his own lack of training, now we ignore that as actually giving development to the character like it or not(I don't).

If people can't be realist and their cry's for development are actually, get the same treatment as the main characters. Then Super will only become increasingly frustrating and it will not be the show's fault.

[TekTheNinja]

Don't put words in my mouth. You're debating a strawman right now.

All i'm saying is I want characters to actually be respected. It was mentioned what was wrong with the Piccolo episode when it aired, so if you STILL don't think the episode was disrespectful to the character, why would I be able to change your mind?

Gohan went through the SAME development he went through in the Buu and Cell arc. Can they seriously think of nothing else than to make him weak over and over to just realize that he needs to become strong again? So it's not even development. He UNdevoloped so he could REdevelop.

[LightBing]

I'm not putting words in your mouth, I'm asking.

I disagree with you regarding Piccolo. No point going further, different opinions. He still got a fight and whole episode dedicate to him. Gohan I'm with you, you said what I think regarding that.

The discussion at hand is giving other characters chances, without straining the story with more unexplained/poorly thought of power ups. The weaker characters will have a very hard time actually winning fight's, they're much weaker than the status quo.

It's very on point to criticize the show for not providing the character reliable power ups and opportunities. The Piccolo fight for me did it's job for the character, without making him unlikely powerful. I want more of this, for more characters.

Respect is very wide, that's why I'm asking what you mean. It will always be a very touchy subject because people have bias regarding the characters they prefer, Goku fans can very well criticize Super for making him lose about half the fight's he's been in. I can say la-di-da for those that complaining about Piccolo, Kuririn didn't even participated in the tournament. But these criticisms don't do anything. Throwing other characters under the bus doesn't help discuss the issue, that the show simply isn't trying to do more for the supporting cast.

But we're branching off, my original point is that for me the show doesn't promise anything for the most part(a thought for Mr.Boo) that it didn't deliver. I disagree completely with you on this point. You can say you dislike how they were developed and shown, that's another conversation.

[Anime Kitten]

It's just my opinion, so please don't yell at me, but I think for a Dragon Ball forum, you guys are complaining a lot more about this stuff than actually enjoying the series.

If you don't agree, feel free to ignore this post.

[saiyanvegetable]

It's just my opinion, so please don't yell at me, but I think for a Dragon Ball forum, you guys are complaining a lot more about this stuff than actually enjoying the series.

If you don't agree, feel free to ignore this post.

When the show really sucks it's hard to "enjoy the series".

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

We really shouldn't just have to lower our standards to suit the low quality of the Toei's handling of the series to make it seem enjoyable because its dragonball. I'm tired of that. I'd rather people be articulate and honest about it, than praise it disingenuously or make excuses to uphold a status quo. We shouldn't have to turn our brains off to justify or ignore the poor quality.

[Anime Kitten]

Maybe let's just not drag on complaints for longer than compliments. That's all I'm saying.

[Protege]

Maybe let's just not drag on complaints for longer than compliments. That's all I'm saying.

Not when they cant do one thing right. Especially when show has crude written boring storyline and recolored transformations.

[pacz360]

Maybe let's just not drag on complaints for longer than compliments. That's all I'm saying.

That'll stop or lessens when when super is actually good instead being garbage which depends how future trunks arc will be handled.

[TheDBZmaster100]

Super at least doesn't have that godawful abomination of a story arc Black Star Dragon Ball Saga. That's make it win by default.

Also for Super's Frost... GT has Pan, Giru, and Bebi.

Let's ignore how awful all the major arcs in Super were?
This series lacks tension and stakes, it's one of the key reasons why I don't care about any of the developments since we all know they're fine at the end of DB.
The forced artificial tension is also ridiculous.

[Anime Kitten]

Well, we all have differing opinions. Let's just let those who hate Super hate Super, and those who like it like it. There's no need to argue over it. But I'm not the boss so do whatever you want...

[TekTheNinja]

Maybe let's just not drag on complaints for longer than compliments. That's all I'm saying.

There's really not much to compliment. I continue watching it just because it's Dragon Ball, but I don't LIKE it just because it's Dragon Ball. I only really keep watching even at this point for the glimmers of how great DB used to be. Stuff like the babysitting Pan episode, and the Goku vs Hit fight.

[Anime Kitten]

There's really not much to compliment.

I can see that, but there's no need to complain. Let's just keep it to ourselves, because there's too much argument going on here...

[TekTheNinja]

There's really not much to compliment.

I can see that, but there's no need to complain. Let's just keep it to ourselves, because there's too much argument going on here...

Oh so now you're telling me I shouldn't be allowed to share my opinion? -__-

[VegettoEX]

I think it's a fair point to make that an endless list of complaints isn't something that's interesting to read, and if your complaints aren't adding anything new to the discussion, maybe it's best to consider it all covered.

Yes, everyone's entitled to an opinion, but are you also sitting there reading everyone else's opinions or just shouting yours out into the void? Consider what it's like for everyone reading. It's not particularly fun, even if you agree with the complaints.

Negativity is just as infectious as excitement. Consider what you're putting out into the world!

[buutenks]

I enjoy it and have no issues with DB super.

Animation was sometimes a bit meh(rof arc), but i didnt mind much.

Overall i am happy we got db super and that db verse has been expanded upon. Something which DB GT failed to do. Since apart from some planet seeing in the first arc, everything else happened on earth. While in super, we got beerus' home, u6 tournament, super shenlong, we got to see the universe and other universes.

Plus the display of power. Problem with GT was that there was nothing new showed. While in super from the get go, you could tell, these new gods were no pushovers, PL wise and feat wise.

[Cetra]

I enjoy it and have no issues with DB super.

Animation was sometimes a bit meh(rof arc), but i didnt mind much.

Overall i am happy we got db super and that db verse has been expanded upon. Something which DB GT failed to do. Since apart from some planet seeing in the first arc, everything else happened on earth. While in super, we got beerus' home, u6 tournament, super shenlong, we got to see the universe and other universes.

Plus the display of power. Problem with GT was that there was nothing new showed. While in super from the get go, you could tell, these new gods were no pushovers, PL wise and feat wise.

That makes no sense at all. They showed alien stuff in GT first and then they did not. And they did exactly the same thing in Super. You even mentioned it. The only difference is other universes have been brought in.

[Anime Kitten]

Oh so now you're telling me I shouldn't be allowed to share my opinion? -__-

Of course not. I'm saying just what Mr. VegettoEX said. Complaints aren't very fun to read or even think about.