Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[ZombieVito]

I've been thinking, now that Goku and Vegeta are confirmed to be over SSJ3 Gotenks, doesn't that mean Gohan was indeed ultimate or at least reaching that level by episode 30? Piccolo was shown to be on par with him and he shouldn't be worlds apart of the base Saiyans in the U6 tournament.

Something like:

Final form Frost: 450
Piccolo's Makkankosappo: 245
Weak final form Frost: 200
Vegeta/Goku/Cabba: 150
Assualt Frost: 125
Ultimate Gohan: 120
SSJ3 Gotenks: 100
Piccolo/Gohan: 75

The only problem I can see is that Piccolo was never stated to surpass Boo.

[RandomGuy96]

Piccolo says he wanted Frost to dial back to his first form to have an equal fight

Did he really say that? I thought he just said "revert [to an unspecified form] so we can have a more even fight". If he did say that, that would be more proof that the gaps between Frost's forms are really small.

[ZombieVito]

Piccolo says he wanted Frost to dial back to his first form to have an equal fight

Did he really say that? I thought he just said "revert [to an unspecified form] so we can have a more even fight". If he did say that, that would be more proof that the gaps between Frost's forms are really small.

He didn't specify a form.

[RandomGuy96]

Piccolo says he wanted Frost to dial back to his first form to have an equal fight

Did he really say that? I thought he just said "revert [to an unspecified form] so we can have a more even fight". If he did say that, that would be more proof that the gaps between Frost's forms are really small.

He didn't specify a form.

But he did he actually say that they'd have an even fight if he reverted? Or just that it would be closer in a way that suggests he's really saying "so I'll win"?

[ZombieVito]

But he did he actually say that they'd have an even fight if he reverted? Or just that it would be closer in a way that suggests he's really saying "so I'll win"?

No. This is the conversation they have in KenXyro's sub:

Piccolo: Do you plan to keep fighting me in your final form?
Piccolo: Why don't you hold back a little?
Frost: You need not to worry.
Frost: I don't have enough power remaining to accidentally kill you.
Frost: Still, I do not intend to lose.
Piccolo: It seems like everyone is underestimating me today.

[RandomGuy96]

But he did he actually say that they'd have an even fight if he reverted? Or just that it would be closer in a way that suggests he's really saying "so I'll win"?

No. This is the conversation they have in KenXyro's sub:

Piccolo: Do you plan to keep fighting me in your final form?
Piccolo: Why don't you hold back a little?
Frost: You need not to worry.
Frost: I don't have enough power remaining to accidentally kill you.
Frost: Still, I do not intend to lose.
Piccolo: It seems like everyone is underestimating me today.

Thanks. I figured that he didn't say something so specific.

[AvatarReiko]

What, what?! SSJ Caba is stonger than Base Goku and Vegeta? But aren't their base forms stronger than Buu saga characters? So basically, a newly transformed SSJ can now curbstomp characters like SSJ3 Goku or anyone in else in that tier. What are these writers smoking?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I've been thinking, now that Goku and Vegeta are confirmed to be over SSJ3 Gotenks, doesn't that mean Gohan was indeed ultimate or at least reaching that level by episode 30? Piccolo was shown to be on par with him and he shouldn't be worlds apart of the base Saiyans in the U6 tournament.

Gohan had his Ultimate eyes in episode 43, so he was probably drawn inconsistently in episode 30.

[TheMikado]

What, what?! SSJ Caba is stonger than Base Goku and Vegeta? But aren't their base forms stronger than Buu saga characters? So basically, a newly transformed SSJ can now curbstomp characters like SSJ3 Goku or anyone in else in that tier. What are these writers smoking?

Umm in case you missed it Base Cabba could have probably curbstomped Z SSJ3 Goku...

[HeroR]

I've been thinking, now that Goku and Vegeta are confirmed to be over SSJ3 Gotenks, doesn't that mean Gohan was indeed ultimate or at least reaching that level by episode 30? Piccolo was shown to be on par with him and he shouldn't be worlds apart of the base Saiyans in the U6 tournament.

Something like:

Final form Frost: 450
Piccolo's Makkankosappo: 245
Weak final form Frost: 200
Vegeta/Goku/Cabba: 150
Assualt Frost: 125
Ultimate Gohan: 120
SSJ3 Gotenks: 100
Piccolo/Gohan: 75

The only problem I can see is that Piccolo was never stated to surpass Boo.

I have no doubt Piccolo got stronger, but I don't think he's near Ultimate Gohan. Most likely, Gohan was fighting at Piccolo's level to get the most out of his training. Think Goku and Vegeta not using their Super Saiyan forms as they trained.

I think someone would have comment if Piccolo got such a power boost, since him being near Gohan maximum power would make him surpass Mr. Buu, and Goku only took Piccolo because he was the next strongest fighter. Both Vegeta and Goku wanted Gohan, and were more than willing to replaced Piccolo with him. Hell, Goku wanted reborn Kid Buu over Piccolo.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I think someone would have comment if Piccolo got such a power boost, since him being near Gohan maximum power would make him surpass Mr. Buu, and Goku only took Piccolo because he was the next strongest fighter. Both Vegeta and Goku wanted Gohan, and were more than willing to replaced Piccolo with him. Hell, Goku wanted reborn Kid Buu over Piccolo.

Piccolo isn't stated to be stronger, but he is shown to be on Gohan's level, who seems to be Ultimate once again. Goku didn't know that Piccolo was training with Gohan, and he wanted Boo & Oob first before he learned this, so until he met Piccolo, he must have been assuming that he was still weaker than a Super Saiyan.

In the manga though, Piccolo is still below a regular Super Saiyan as far as we know.

[AvatarReiko]

What, what?! SSJ Caba is stonger than Base Goku and Vegeta? But aren't their base forms stronger than Buu saga characters? So basically, a newly transformed SSJ can now curbstomp characters like SSJ3 Goku or anyone in else in that tier. What are these writers smoking?

Umm in case you missed it Base Cabba could have probably curbstomped Z SSJ3 Goku...

That is even worse. Seems that the characters in super are only as strong as the plot needs them to be.

[LowRyder2005]

But he did he actually say that they'd have an even fight if he reverted? Or just that it would be closer in a way that suggests he's really saying "so I'll win"?

No. This is the conversation they have in KenXyro's sub:

Piccolo: Do you plan to keep fighting me in your final form?
Piccolo: Why don't you hold back a little?
Frost: You need not to worry.
Frost: I don't have enough power remaining to accidentally kill you.
Frost: Still, I do not intend to lose.
Piccolo: It seems like everyone is underestimating me today.

Thanks. I figured that he didn't say something so specific.

Yeah, my bad, I bypassed an "I think he meant this" back there.

[Bullza]

So basically, a newly transformed SSJ can now curbstomp characters like SSJ3 Goku or anyone in else in that tier. What are these writers smoking?

Well yeah, Base Vegeta is stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks and Base Cabba is equal to him.

Base Cabba would surely stomp Ultimate Gohan so of course as a Super Saiyan he'd beat SSJ3 Goku. Just because he'd never turned Super Saiyan before doesn't impact how strong they would be without it.

[AvatarReiko]

So basically, a newly transformed SSJ can now curbstomp characters like SSJ3 Goku or anyone in else in that tier. What are these writers smoking?

Well yeah, Base Vegeta is stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks and Base Cabba is equal to him.

Base Cabba would surely stomp Ultimate Gohan so of course as a Super Saiyan he'd beat SSJ3 Goku. Just because he'd never turned Super Saiyan before doesn't impact how strong they would be without it.

I was actually refering to the fact that Base Caba ssj3 tier in the first place. I find it hard to believe that any saiyan can reach the realm of god power in base. Both Goku and Vegeta both had to absorb the god power into their bases.

[dbzfan7]

Looked to me like Base Gohan vs Piccolo. Considering his eyes and how they made the differentiation in the Beerus arc.

[Bullza]

I was actually refering to the fact that Base Caba ssj3 tier in the first place. I find it hard to believe that any saiyan can reach the realm of god power in base. Both Goku and Vegeta both had to absorb the god power into their bases.

Well it's alright for him to be that strong because he's a Saiyan from Universe 6, we don't know anything about him or the Saiyans of that universe so there's nothing contradicting about it.

For all we know there's no reason why he can't be that strong. If he were a Saiyan from Universe 7 then it'd be bad writing but he isn't.

[ZombieVito]

I've been thinking, now that Goku and Vegeta are confirmed to be over SSJ3 Gotenks, doesn't that mean Gohan was indeed ultimate or at least reaching that level by episode 30? Piccolo was shown to be on par with him and he shouldn't be worlds apart of the base Saiyans in the U6 tournament.

Something like:

Final form Frost: 450
Piccolo's Makkankosappo: 245
Weak final form Frost: 200
Vegeta/Goku/Cabba: 150
Assualt Frost: 125
Ultimate Gohan: 120
SSJ3 Gotenks: 100
Piccolo/Gohan: 75

The only problem I can see is that Piccolo was never stated to surpass Boo.

I have no doubt Piccolo got stronger, but I don't think he's near Ultimate Gohan. Most likely, Gohan was fighting at Piccolo's level to get the most out of his training. Think Goku and Vegeta not using their Super Saiyan forms as they trained.

I think someone would have comment if Piccolo got such a power boost, since him being near Gohan maximum power would make him surpass Mr. Buu, and Goku only took Piccolo because he was the next strongest fighter. Both Vegeta and Goku wanted Gohan, and were more than willing to replaced Piccolo with him. Hell, Goku wanted reborn Kid Buu over Piccolo.

I know that but unless Piccolo's Makankosappo got dozens of times stronger I see no other way this can work.

[Hellspawn28]

How strong do you think Gryll is? Weaker than Namek Saga Freeza or above it. He did got scared of Goten and Trunks fighting.

[Bullza]

I can't remember who Gryll even fought but from a story perspective seeing as how Frieza was supposed to be the strongest in the Universe and Beerus was shocked to hear that there was somebody out there that was actually stronger than him then I'd say Frieza would probably be much stronger.