Base Cabba stronger than ssj3 Gotenks?

[apex_pretador]

If the U6 Saiyans never went Super Saiyan, they'd be able to continue racking up zenkai boosts, right?

[generalred3]

Can the in-universe explanation simply be Trunks and Goten received the same power decrease as Gohan considering they both also stopped training for just as long as Gohan did. Since Gohan was stronger than Gotenks in the Buu saga and they stopped training at the same time wouldn't it be feasible that weak Super Gohan is still stronger than Super's Gotenks? Which can also explain why copy Base-Vegeta is stronger than Gotenks now.

[pacz360]

Can the in-universe explanation simply be Trunks and Goten received the same power decrease as Gohan considering they both also stopped training for just as long as Gohan did. Since Gohan was stronger than Gotenks in the Buu saga and they stopped training at the same time wouldn't it be feasible that weak Super Gohan is still stronger than Super's Gotenks? Which can also explain why copy Base-Vegeta is stronger than Gotenks now.

No the show never hinted or implied gotenks gotten weaker at all unlike with gohan seriously why people are having a hard time accepting base vegeta or goku being this strong:/

[rereboy]

I love it when people say that Super doesn't make sense, as if power levels in Z made all the sense and Toriyama did the manga with calculator, carefully calculating all this bullshit, and not just for the money and to entertain young boys. Yeah, it makes sense, it's all about the power levels.

It made much more sense than Super, even though it obviously wasn't perfect.

And since the series is mainly about fighting, power consistency between arcs and characters is actually significant for the overall coherence of the show.

[generalred3]

Can the in-universe explanation simply be Trunks and Goten received the same power decrease as Gohan considering they both also stopped training for just as long as Gohan did. Since Gohan was stronger than Gotenks in the Buu saga and they stopped training at the same time wouldn't it be feasible that weak Super Gohan is still stronger than Super's Gotenks? Which can also explain why copy Base-Vegeta is stronger than Gotenks now.

No the show never hinted or implied gotenks gotten weaker at all unlike with gohan seriously why people are having a hard time accepting base vegeta or goku being this strong:/

Not having a hard time with anything, I am actually i guess one of the few who isn't bothered by that at all. But it is the in-universe thread so I am just trying to think of other reasons that could possibly make sense. And it is sort of implied he got weaker considering he is one-shot by Freeza's henchman (I believe. I actually don't remember this arc well lol). Just a thought.

[Speedster]

Well Cabba was wearing his thick, Saiyan plot armor so I guess he was protected from losing easily in base form...

[Gorou]

The only clear strength ratio in Super is that everyone is inferior to Beerus. The rest is a mess.

Majin Buu, one of the biggest threats of the universe 7, seems to be easily overcome by anyone with a bit of training.

[RandomGuy96]

Universe 7 probably just has fighters who start extremely higher. Frost, the Freeza equivalent, is told he needs to train to get stronger like Freeza did (implying he never seriously trained), yet even in his 3rd form out of 4 he's a good deal stronger than both final form Freeza after he drew out all his dormant potential and all but maybe two or three characters in the Buu arc.

[Hitiro]

People are forgetting that Cabba comes from a planet with 10x Earth's gravity and gets to spar and train with his own race all the time. His gains are going to be huge. Look at what happened to Goku when he trained for a year with Gohan in the Cell Saga. He went from being weaker than the androids to being on par with suppressed Perfect Cell. That's a massive increase. Cabba has had 10-20 years of that experience. Not to mention his version of the Saiyan's fight all across the galaxy against bad guys. If a Saiyan goes out and fights against a strong opponent then comes back to Planet Salad he can train the other Saiyan's and spread his gains. Effectively:

Random Saiyan: 5
Random Saiyan(After fighting difficult opponent): 10
Rest of Saiyans: 5
Rest of Saiyans(After various sparring/training matches): 10

^And so on. They can effectively train their whole race to ridiculous levels.

[rereboy]

People are forgetting that Cabba comes from a planet with 10x Earth's gravity and gets to spar and train with his own race all the time. His gains are going to be huge. Look at what happened to Goku when he trained for a year with Gohan in the Cell Saga. He went from being weaker than the androids to being on par with suppressed Perfect Cell. That's a massive increase. Cabba has had 10-20 years of that experience. Not to mention his version of the Saiyan's fight all across the galaxy against bad guys. If a Saiyan goes out and fights against a strong opponent then comes back to Planet Salad he can train the other Saiyan's and spread his gains. Effectively:

Random Saiyan: 5
Random Saiyan(After fighting difficult opponent): 10
Rest of Saiyans: 5
Rest of Saiyans(After various sparring/training matches): 10

^And so on. They can effectively train their whole race to ridiculous levels.

And yet the average of the saiyan race in the main universe was just around 1000 in power level... Even though they had decades, centuries of fighting with others and among themselves...

[dragonballer]

for everyone who thinks it very reasonable universe 6 fighers be worlds above z era level, is piccolo stronger than ssj3 gotenks?

[Kuririn Fan]

I love it when people say that Super doesn't make sense, as if power levels in Z made all the sense and Toriyama did the manga with calculator, carefully calculating all this bullshit, and not just for the money and to entertain young boys. Yeah, it makes sense, it's all about the power levels.

It made much more sense than Super, even though it obviously wasn't perfect.

And since the series is mainly about fighting, power consistency between arcs and characters is actually significant for the overall coherence of the show.

No, it isn't. The point of the show isn't to create your imaginary numbers and argue over them.

[rereboy]

I love it when people say that Super doesn't make sense, as if power levels in Z made all the sense and Toriyama did the manga with calculator, carefully calculating all this bullshit, and not just for the money and to entertain young boys. Yeah, it makes sense, it's all about the power levels.

It made much more sense than Super, even though it obviously wasn't perfect.

And since the series is mainly about fighting, power consistency between arcs and characters is actually significant for the overall coherence of the show.

No, it isn't. The point of the show isn't to create your imaginary numbers and argue over them.

What numbers? I didn't talk about any numbers. I will give an example: what if Ron Weasley was suddenly more powerful at magic than Mcgonagall in the Harry Potter franchise without a good explanation? It would be a jarring inconsistency in terms of power/skill consistency. It has nothing to do with numbers.

And DB Super is filled with jarring examples of incoherences, more so than what came before. We don't need numbers to notice that one fighter is way stronger than another in one moment, like Gohan and Piccolo, and suddenly notice that, without any reasonable explanation, he no longer is, for example.

(And yes, DB's main focus is fighting, no point in denying that. Pretty much all the arcs are about that and that's the focus of the main characters.)

[Kuririn Fan]

Of course, but i'm talking about small "power levels are important and shown in numbers" fandom.

[rereboy]

Yeah, but when people talk about Super not making sense they aren't really talking about power levels. We don't need power levels to notice the incoherences in Super.

[Kuririn Fan]

Yeah, but when people talk about Super not making sense they aren't really talking about power levels. We don't need power levels to notice the incoherences in Super.

Yeah, yeah, i get what you're saying, but there's no need to make sense if current stuff makes ton of money.

[rereboy]

Yeah, but when people talk about Super not making sense they aren't really talking about power levels. We don't need power levels to notice the incoherences in Super.

Yeah, yeah, i get what you're saying, but there's no need to make sense if current stuff makes ton of money.

Maybe for the executives at Toei, but since fans don't get any of that money they are concerned with other things.

[Kuririn Fan]

Yeah, but when people talk about Super not making sense they aren't really talking about power levels. We don't need power levels to notice the incoherences in Super.

Yeah, yeah, i get what you're saying, but there's no need to make sense if current stuff makes ton of money.

Maybe for the executives at Toei, but since fans don't get any of that money they are concerned with other things.

But Toei doesn't give a shit.

[TheMikado]

^ And that's why people have very poor opinions about Super. I'm not sure if you've noticed the number of newbies wandering into the forums lately with all kinds of questions and confusion about how strong people actually are in Super. Honestly, is what brought me here in the first place. The point is the show shouldnt be this confusing for casual fans, you can also make the argument that they aren't casual fans but even then it shouldnt be that confusing for even hardcore fans.

People arent saying that Super is bad because Goku is 10% of Beerus power or anything like that. Its because they already thought things were established with power comparisons in universe and they have a hard time placing people to know whether they are actually in any peril at all. Knowing that Goku's base was above SSJ3 Gotenks level means that the Frost/Piccolo fight was pretty much pointless if Frost was fighting a SSJ Goku who would be far past a Base Goku at SSJ Gotenks level. I feel for Piccolo fans because that was like putting Krillin against the androids or Cell but us not actually knowing how badly outclassed he is.

[Kuririn Fan]

^ And that's why people have very poor opinions about Super. I'm not sure if you've noticed the number of newbies wandering into the forums lately with all kinds of questions and confusion about how strong people actually are in Super. Honestly, is what brought me here in the first place. The point is the show shouldnt be this confusing for casual fans, you can also make the argument that they aren't casual fans but even then it shouldnt be that confusing for even hardcore fans.

People arent saying that Super is bad because Goku is 10% of Beerus power or anything like that. Its because they already thought things were established with power comparisons in universe and they have a hard time placing people to know whether they are actually in any peril at all. Knowing that Goku's base was above SSJ3 Gotenks level means that the Frost/Piccolo fight was pretty much pointless if Frost was fighting a SSJ Goku who would be far past a Base Goku at SSJ Gotenks level. I feel for Piccolo fans because that was like putting Krillin against the androids or Cell but us not actually knowing how badly outclassed he is.

That why power level people have very poor opinion about Super. Normal people look at other normal stuff.