Vegetto "possibly" stronger than SSJ4?

[OWmyDragonBallz]

What also bothers me about this is that Goku had said when Baby Vegeta first transformed that he had the strongest ki he had ever felt. So "SSJ Baby Vegeta" > Super Vegetto already. And on top of that DBGT Perfect Files also say GT Gohan has kept up with his training.. Just look at GT Gohan, he doesn't even use his "ultimate" form anymore and he's always in his work clothes, except for against One-Star Dragon for some reason.

[LowRyder2005]

It could possibly mean a general comparison between the power ups i.e. how Goku & Vegeta fusing with the potara to form Vegetto and turning SSJ1 compares with Goku turning SSJ4. Like a hypothetical GT SSJ1 Vegetto Versus GT SSJ4 Goku. Not the Buu arc Vegetto Vs GT SSJ4 Goku.

The logic is probably that base Vegetto is comparable to Goku going SSJ3. Then turning SSJ1 makes him stronger by whatever the SSJ1 multiplier is. On the other hand SSJ4 made Goku go from the SSJ3 level of getting easily beaten by Bebi Vegeta to a level of being on par with Oozaru Bebi Vegeta. So in other words the statement might just be saying "the multiplier of SSJ1 upon the base level is probably larger than the multiplier of SSJ4 upon the SSJ3 level".

Wholeheartedly agreed. This has always been my interpretation as well.

[miguelnuva1]

Here's the two ways I go about it.

1. SSJ4's multiplier= the rival boost + SSJ. Goku in Gt gained the same amount of power from going ssj4 as he would have if he used potara and turned into a ssj.

2. Vegito at his strongest as a SSJ3 rivals ssj4 goku.

[Lord Frieza]

And neither would stand a snowball's chance in hell against Omega or Beerus.

[Hitiro]

What also bothers me about this is that Goku had said when Baby Vegeta first transformed that he had the strongest ki he had ever felt. So "SSJ Baby Vegeta" > Super Vegetto already. And on top of that DBGT Perfect Files also say GT Gohan has kept up with his training.. Just look at GT Gohan, he doesn't even use his "ultimate" form anymore and he's always in his work clothes, except for against One-Star Dragon for some reason.

Except in the history of Dragon Ball we have never had a character specifically state they can sense their own Ki. In fact, considering how characters often think that they can beat an opponent who has superior Ki to theirs it is more or less implied that they can't judge their own Ki levels against someone else's without other extenuating factors. Such as actually fighting their opponent and visually noticing that they can't keep up with that persons speed or using another character you know you can beat as a measuring stick against this new opponent. Furthermore it should be clear that Goku can't sense his own Ki because:

A) He states he needs to be able to sense someones Ki to teleport to/around it. If he could sense his own then he would be teleporting without the need to sense other peoples Ki.

B) Goku asks Karin to compare his Ki against Cell's to see who is stronger. He could do this without Karin if he could sense his own Ki.

So when Goku said Bebi's Ki was the strongest he has ever felt then it would be perfectly fine for Super Vegetto's to be above Super Bebi Vegeta's.

[Analytic]

But how would Gohan know that Fat Boo upon hatching was much stronger than himself if he couldn't feel his own power?

[Hitiro]

But how would Gohan know that Fat Boo upon hatching was much stronger than himself if he couldn't feel his own power?

Because Boo's power would exceed two characters he knows are stronger than himself? Goku and Vegeta while they are in SSJ2. Or the fact that Fat Boo decimated Dabra would also clue him in because Gohan struggled against Dabra himself. Or even possibly Boo's power vastly exceeded another character Gohan knows is really strong, Super Perfect Cell.

[ekrolo2]

I pretty much have GT Base Goku on par with Base Vegetto in the Boo arc. The reason for this is that Vegetto is surprised by how easily he's trouncing Super Boo as an SSJ, implying that his base form isn't in that ballpark like many people assume from the anime. There also doesn't seem to be a massive gap between SSJ1 Gotenks and SSJ3 Goku, even after the ROSAT and once you take the multipliers into account, you've got a situation where Vegetto, with just the multiplier of SSJ1 could trounce Boohan pretty comfortably without even needing the full power of his regular Super Saiyan state.

Here's how I see it in more understandable terms:

SSJ3 Goku (Boo Arc) & Base Goku (GT) & Base Vegetto (Boo Arc): 1
SSJ1 Gotenks (Post-ROSAT): 1.5
SSJ3 Gotenks & Super Boo: 12
Ultimate Gohan: 14
Bootenks: 24
Boohan: 26
SSJ1 Vegetto (Boo arc) & SSJ1 Goku (GT): 50

Now, if the databook means a hypothetical GT Vegetto, then yeah, he'd murder stomp Goku no problem even if he had 4. He'd be a fucktillion times more powerful than his Boo Arc self just from Goku's insane strength gains alone.

[Analytic]

Because Boo's power would exceed two characters he knows are stronger than himself? Goku and Vegeta while they are in SSJ2. Or the fact that Fat Boo decimated Dabra would also clue him in because Gohan struggled against Dabra himself.

Boo when he first hatched was weaker than Goku and Vegeta.

Chapter: 461 (DBZ 267), P4.6, P5.4-6
Goku: “It’s a ki…! A huge ki has appeared…! Majin Boo has finally come out…”
Vegeta: “Fuffuffuh…Majin Boo, huh?...Here I was wondering what kind of amazing guy he would be, and he’s got this kind of battle power number?...I thought so…Kakarot, you and I have now become too strong…By a wide margin! By his nature, Kaioshin is supposed to be someone tremendous, but have you ever once thought that he was incredible? Quite the opposite, it's Kaioshin who’s been bewildered…Majin Boo is fearsome from Kaioshin’s perspective, but from ours he’s not so much…”

As for your second point, while Boo did decimate Dabra, Gohan knew that he was outclassed before he even saw Boo fight Dabra.

Edit:

Or even possibly Boo's power vastly exceeded another character Gohan knows is really strong, Super Perfect Cell.

And how would Gohan know how Cell compares to himself if he doesn't know his own power?

[Hitiro]

I pretty much have GT Base Goku on par with Base Vegetto in the Boo arc. The reason for this is that Vegetto is surprised by how easily he's trouncing Super Boo as an SSJ, implying that his base form isn't in that ballpark like many people assume from the anime. There also doesn't seem to be a massive gap between SSJ1 Gotenks and SSJ3 Goku, even after the ROSAT and once you take the multipliers into account, you've got a situation where Vegetto, with just the multiplier of SSJ1 could trounce Boohan pretty comfortably without even needing the full power of his regular Super Saiyan state.

Here's how I see it in more understandable terms:

SSJ3 Goku (Boo Arc) & Base Goku (GT) & Base Vegetto (Boo Arc): 1
SSJ1 Gotenks (Post-ROSAT): 1.5
SSJ3 Gotenks & Super Boo: 12
Ultimate Gohan: 14
Bootenks: 24
Boohan: 26
SSJ1 Vegetto (Boo arc) & SSJ1 Goku (GT): 50

Now, if the databook means a hypothetical GT Vegetto, then yeah, he'd murder stomp Goku no problem even if he had 4. He'd be a fucktillion times more powerful than his Boo Arc self just from Goku's insane strength gains alone.

I don't think can really evaluate the Potara boost based upon the Fusion dance because they are two different techniques which even the Rou Kaioshin stated that the Potara's effect was greater than the Fusion dance. If we're going by boosts then the Potara must make their combined strength at least 8x stronger assuming of course that Evil Boo and Gohan were on par with SSJ3 Goku, which they aren't they vastly exceed him.

Assuming a 1.5x gap is needed for another character to outclass another.
Base Goku: 1
Base Gotenks: 9
Base Vegetto: 273.75
SSJ3 Goku: 400
SSJ Gotenks: 450
SSJ3 Gotenks: 450*8 = 3,600
Evil Boo: 3,650
Chou Gohan: 5,475
Boohan: 9,125
Super Vegetto: 13,687.5

Above is just an example but here the combined total of Vegeta and Goku's power would need to be multiplied by 136.875 to get their Base to a level that would decimate Boo.

Because Boo's power would exceed two characters he knows are stronger than himself? Goku and Vegeta while they are in SSJ2. Or the fact that Fat Boo decimated Dabra would also clue him in because Gohan struggled against Dabra himself.

Boo when he first hatched was weaker than Goku and Vegeta.

Chapter: 461 (DBZ 267), P4.6, P5.4-6
Goku: “It’s a ki…! A huge ki has appeared…! Majin Boo has finally come out…”
Vegeta: “Fuffuffuh…Majin Boo, huh?...Here I was wondering what kind of amazing guy he would be, and he’s got this kind of battle power number?...I thought so…Kakarot, you and I have now become too strong…By a wide margin! By his nature, Kaioshin is supposed to be someone tremendous, but have you ever once thought that he was incredible? Quite the opposite, it's Kaioshin who’s been bewildered…Majin Boo is fearsome from Kaioshin’s perspective, but from ours he’s not so much…”

As for your second point, while Boo did decimate Dabra, Gohan knew that he was outclassed before he even saw Boo fight Dabra.

What does that statement prove exactly? Vegeta can, by comparison, make the observation that Boo is inferior to the both of them considering he is fighting on par with Goku. Goku even says "After all this, we're completely even."

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P10.3-4, P11.2-3
Context: after Goku and Vegeta fight for a while
Goku: “Un-unbelievable…I thought I trained considerably in the afterlife…But we’re completely even…You trained more than me…”

If Goku could sense his own Ki surely this would have been noticeable from the start. No?

So Vegeta would easily be able to put two and two together just by evaluating that he is the same strength as Goku that they are superior:

Vegeta: ?
Boo: 10
Goku: 15
Vegeta(Draws the conclusion his Ki must be as high as Goku's for him to fight Goku equally): 15

And as I said about Gohan he could probably make a logical comparison that Boo outclasses him due to using Super Perfect Cell as a pegging post. If he's greater than Super Perfect Cell then he is greater than SSJ Gohan who can't muster all of his anger. Simple as that.

[ekrolo2]

I don't think can really evaluate the Potara boost based upon the Fusion dance because they are two different techniques which even the Rou Kaioshin stated that the Potara's effect was greater than the Fusion dance. If we're going by boosts then the Potara must make their combined strength at least 8x stronger assuming of course that Evil Boo and Gohan were on par with SSJ3 Goku, which they aren't they vastly exceed him.

Assuming a 1.5x gap is needed for another character to outclass another.
Base Goku: 1
Base Gotenks: 9
Base Vegetto: 273.75
SSJ3 Goku: 400
SSJ Gotenks: 450
SSJ3 Gotenks: 450*8 = 3,600
Evil Boo: 3,650
Chou Gohan: 5,475
Boohan: 9,125
Super Vegetto: 13,687.5

Above is just an example but here the combined total of Vegeta and Goku's power would need to be multiplied by 136.875 to get their Base to a level that would decimate Boo.

I've got Base Goku and Vegeta a fair amount inferior to Freeza's 100% form, with that in mind, the Potara giving them a boost that puts them on equal footing to SSJ3 Goku or even SSJ1 Gotenks seems like a massive enough boost to give his base form more than enough breathing room to annihilate Boohan without even needing to exert all his SSJ1 strength.

[Analytic]

What does that statement prove exactly? Vegeta can, by comparison, make the observation that Boo is inferior to the both of them considering he is fighting on par with Goku. Goku even says "After all this, we're completely even."

If Goku could sense his own Ki surely this would have been noticeable from the start. No?

The point of the quote was to prove that Goku and Vegeta were stronger than Fat Boo initially, as you tried to claim that Gohan would know that he was weaker than Boo based on Boo being stronger than Goku and Vegeta, which he wasn't initially.

And as I said about Gohan he could probably make a logical comparison that Boo outclasses him due to using Super Perfect Cell as a pegging post. If he's greater than Super Perfect Cell then he is greater than SSJ Gohan who can't muster all of his anger. Simple as that.

Again, how would Gohan know how Super Perfect Cell compares to himself if he doesn't know his own strength?

[Kuririn Fan]

I think he's at LEAST stronger than Broli.

[Hitiro]

What does that statement prove exactly? Vegeta can, by comparison, make the observation that Boo is inferior to the both of them considering he is fighting on par with Goku. Goku even says "After all this, we're completely even."

If Goku could sense his own Ki surely this would have been noticeable from the start. No?

The point of the quote was to prove that Goku and Vegeta were stronger than Fat Boo initially, as you tried to claim that Gohan would know that he was weaker than Boo based on Boo being stronger than Goku and Vegeta, which he wasn't initially.

You need to check the manga, the moment Gohan notices that Boo's Ki is overwhelming as he takes Dabra out is when it cuts to Goku and Vegeta stating the exact same thing. In fact, Gohan thought he could manage Boo before Boo took out Dabra.

Before he fights Dabra

Chapter: 461 (DBZ 267), P3.5-7
Context: after Kaioshin says they must run from Boo
Gohan: “…Is that so?...He really does have tremendous ki, but…It doesn’t seem like so much so that there’s nothing I can do…[ ] …If I can only put out all of my true power…”

Chapter: 461 (DBZ 267), P4.6, P5.4-6
Goku: “It’s a ki…! A huge ki has appeared…! Majin Boo has finally come out…”
Vegeta: “Fuffuffuh…Majin Boo, huh?...Here I was wondering what kind of amazing guy he would be, and he’s got this kind of battle power number?...I thought so…Kakarot, you and I have now become too strong…By a wide margin! By his nature, Kaioshin is supposed to be someone tremendous, but have you ever once thought that he was incredible? Quite the opposite, it's Kaioshin who’s been bewildered…Majin Boo is fearsome from Kaioshin’s perspective, but from ours he’s not so much…”
Goku: “N-no…That’s not it…There’s something abnormal about this ki...”

After he fights Dabra

Chapter: 462 (DBZ 268), P1.2-4, P2.5
Context: after Boo beats Dabra
Gohan: “It-it rose…Majin Boo’s ki rose explosively…He’s str-strong…Too strong…This is unbelievable…”
Trunks: “…What the…!? This time I feel an incredible ki over there too…What’s going on?...”
[ ]
Goku (talking to Vegeta): “…It changed into an outrageous ki…So Majin Boo really isn’t anyone ordinary after all…This ain’t no time to be doing this kinda thing…! We’re the ones who let this monster out…”

Chapter: 462 (DBZ 268), P4.3
Context: Vegeta says he'll help Goku fight Boo
Goku: “We’ll definitely be able to defeat Majin Boo if we all do it together.”

So no, my point actually still stands. Gohan noticed Boo's Ki was too much only when he started fighting Dabra. And at least Goku thought that they couldn't fight him one on one which lends to Majin Boo having power exceeding the SSJ2's.

And as I said about Gohan he could probably make a logical comparison that Boo outclasses him due to using Super Perfect Cell as a pegging post. If he's greater than Super Perfect Cell then he is greater than SSJ Gohan who can't muster all of his anger. Simple as that.

Again, how would Gohan know how Super Perfect Cell compares to himself if he doesn't know his own strength?

Because Gohan had fought Super Perfect Cell before so he would more or less understand where he fell in terms of strength. Especially after fighting Dabra and realising he isn't as strong as he used to be. As I said previously the only way for characters to gauge their own strength against others is through fighting the enemy in front of them or noticing that they can't keep up with their enemies movements, they need to use observation to determine where they fall against their opponent unless of course the Ki they are sensing is something comparable or greater than another persons Ki that they had fought before. Then they can just use the previous persons Ki as a measuring stick for how well they should do. But that would also depend on if you do better or worse than that person. If you're doing better than them there is no guarantee that this new opponent isn't above your strength because you wouldn't know how much stronger you are than the person fought before. But it would probably be clear if the person you fought before was stronger than you. I mean even Evil Boo doesn't know if he could beat Gohan's new strength till he tried.

Chapter: 498 (DBZ 304), P1.3, P2.4
Context: after Gohan beats up on Boo
Gohan: “You can’t win…”
[ ]
Gohan: “I see…So you tried testing your power just to be sure, and I really was above you…That’s too bad, Majin Boo.”

If Boo could sense his own Ki here then why would he need to test himself against Gohan to make sure Gohan really was above him?

[Analytic]

You need to check the manga, the moment Gohan notices that Boo's Ki is overwhelming as he takes Dabra out is when it cuts to Goku and Vegeta stating the exact same thing. In fact, Gohan thought he could manage Boo before Boo took out Dabra.

So no, my point actually still stands. Gohan noticed Boo's Ki was too much only when he started fighting Dabra. And at least Goku thought that they couldn't fight him one on one which lends to Majin Boo having power exceeding the SSJ2's.

No, your point doesn't stand. You posted two quotes, yet you failed to thoroughly read both of them.

Chapter: 461 (DBZ 267), P3.5-7
Context: after Kaioshin says they must run from Boo
Gohan: “…Is that so?...He really does have tremendous ki, but…It doesn’t seem like so much so that there’s nothing I can do…[ ] …If I can only put out all of my true power…”

^ This was said before Boo fights Dabra. Notice that Gohan only says he can beat Boo if he could only put out all of his true power. How would he know all of his true power is necessary to beat Boo if he can't compare Boo's power to his own? He knew he was outclassed from the start.

Boo's power also didn't exceed Goku and Vegeta's until he fought Dabra.

“Fuffuffuh…Majin Boo, huh?...Here I was wondering what kind of amazing guy he would be, and he’s got this kind of battle power number?...I thought so…Kakarot, you and I have now become too strong…By a wide margin! By his nature, Kaioshin is supposed to be someone tremendous, but have you ever once thought that he was incredible? Quite the opposite, it's Kaioshin who’s been bewildered…Majin Boo is fearsome from Kaioshin’s perspective, but from ours he’s not so much…”

^ Those are not the words of someone describing someone superior to themselves. If you're really trying to argue that Boo is superior initially given that statement from Vegeta, then I can't call your argument anything other than straw grasping.

Because Gohan had fought Super Perfect Cell before so he would more or less understand where he fell in terms of strength.

They never actually fought. Gohan only took a Ki blast to the arm and then had a beam struggle with Cell. He never got to see Cell in combat, so he wouldn't really have any other way to gauge Cell's strength other than sensing his Ki and comparing it to his own.

If Boo could sense his own Ki here then why would he need to test himself against Gohan to make sure Gohan really was above him?

Gohan didn't release his full power until he was right in front of Evil Boo. You'd see that if you read the fight, where Gohan powers up right before he punches Boo in the face.

[Captain Strawberry]

I think he's at LEAST stronger than Broli.

Don't you mean on par?

[TheGreatness25]

It's possible. I don't know if I put the GT characters on such a tier like others do, to be honest. Was it that Goku said that Rild was as powerful as Majin Boo? So I'd say that maybe Super Saiyan 1 Goku is as powerful as Super Saiyan 3 Goku was back against Boo? I never really put too much thought into the power scaling. I just feel like people really think that they're super overpowered in GT. I'd say that Goku is definitely stronger than he was in Z, but I never got the sense that anyone else really was. And I never would say that Goku is as powerful as Vegetto in Z. So whatever. I think it's possible that Vegetto is more powerful than Super Saiyan 4 Goku.

[ahill1]

There are many examples where the character can say how strong he is during the series, like:

---Vegeta knowing he could manage something against Dabra, based on the latter movements. How would he know that if he didn't know his own strength.
---Goku (after the Sapceship gravity training) knowing that Recoome didn't stand a chance against him.
---Mecha Freeza saying that with his new power up he could probably go alone against SSJ Goku. How would he know he even powered up if he didn't know his previous strength?
---Goku (post Choshinsui) saying he could manage something against Piccolo Daimao.
---Piccolo knowing he was screwed right after Imperfect Cell (post humans) powered up in front of him.

[Hitiro]

No, your point doesn't stand. You posted two quotes, yet you failed to thoroughly read both of them.

Chapter: 461 (DBZ 267), P3.5-7
Context: after Kaioshin says they must run from Boo
Gohan: “…Is that so?...He really does have tremendous ki, but…It doesn’t seem like so much so that there’s nothing I can do…[ ] …If I can only put out all of my true power…”

^ This was said before Boo fights Dabra. Notice that Gohan only says he can beat Boo if he could only put out all of his true power. How would he know all of his true power is necessary to beat Boo if he can't compare Boo's power to his own? He knew he was outclassed from the start.

Because if Boo's power doesn't exceed Cell's from back then he would clearly be able to manage Boo with his true power. He struggled with Dabra, who they had already evaluated to be at the same level as Cell. Why would he need to know how strong his original strength was in order to beat a character comparable/inferior to Cell? Even if we say he was on par with Cell then we can argue that yes, Gohan does need his true power, because he was losing to Dabra who was around Cell's level and also he would also possibly have to fight Majin Boo and Dabra. If it were him with his true power that probably wouldn't be too difficult considering he felled Cell in two blows. And I'm saying this is Perfect Cell's level before he got a Zenkai because it was Goku who made the observation about Dabra which he could have only made from that version of Cell as he was dead at the time Cell had gone back to Earth with a Zenkai. So he would not have been able to observe his movements.

Boo's power also didn't exceed Goku and Vegeta's until he fought Dabra.

“Fuffuffuh…Majin Boo, huh?...Here I was wondering what kind of amazing guy he would be, and he’s got this kind of battle power number?...I thought so…Kakarot, you and I have now become too strong…By a wide margin! By his nature, Kaioshin is supposed to be someone tremendous, but have you ever once thought that he was incredible? Quite the opposite, it's Kaioshin who’s been bewildered…Majin Boo is fearsome from Kaioshin’s perspective, but from ours he’s not so much…”

^ Those are not the words of someone describing someone superior to themselves. If you're really trying to argue that Boo is superior initially given that statement from Vegeta, then I can't call your argument anything other than straw grasping.

I was never arguing that Boo was superior initially. You need to learn to read. What I said, as a possibility for Gohan knowing he is no match, was Gohan knew Boo was too strong when Boo's power exceeded Vegeta and Goku's.

You need to check the manga, the moment Gohan notices that Boo's Ki is overwhelming as he takes Dabra out is when it cuts to Goku and Vegeta stating the exact same thing. In fact, Gohan thought he could manage Boo before Boo took out Dabra.

They never actually fought. Gohan only took a Ki blast to the arm and then had a beam struggle with Cell. He never got to see Cell in combat, so he wouldn't really have any other way to gauge Cell's strength other than sensing his Ki and comparing it to his own.

Except it does not take much observation from a character to gauge the strength of their opponent. And the fact that Gohan was struggling with someone of Cell's level yet Boo clearly surpassed that level by leaps and bounds would be clear that he wouldn't stand a chance. Especially if he is comparing Boo's increase to Vegeta and Goku who had surpassed him in terms of strength, as dictated by them.

Gohan didn't release his full power until he was right in front of Evil Boo. You'd see that if you read the fight, where Gohan powers up right before he punches Boo in the face.

Fair enough. I would argue however that he did demonstrate his full power on the Kaioshin planet. Just because he powered up on Earth didn't mean he wasn't at full power previously. If he was comparable to Boo without emitting his full power then I hardly think Boo would have wanted to test it first. Because characters do have the ability to know when someone using their full power. If he is sensing Gohan's power, which you say isn't full at the time, and it is comparable to his own then it would be safe to assume that Gohan is superior. Again assuming that he could sense his own Ki.

It also still doesn't explain why Goku didn't realise until part-way through the fight that he and Vegeta were completely even when they were both fighting at max power. Something you ignored to answer. It also doesn't explain why Goku asked Karin to compare Cell and his battle power to see who is stronger either. And like I have already pointed out there is no line in the story even mentioning a character sensing their own Ki. In fact, the BoG arc even reinforces this as Goku would have surely been able to sense his own God Ki or perhaps even the inability to sense his own Ki, assuming he didn't learn how to sense God Ki just by becoming one, and would have realised he was a SSJGod. Yet he had to ask if he was successful. It also doesn't explain why every time we have a fight in which a character thinks he can beat another character even though he is vastly outmatched in terms of Ki. They would surely be able to tell they are outmatched just from comparing their Ki levels if they could sense their own Ki.

[Analytic]

Because if Boo's power doesn't exceed Cell's from back then he would clearly be able to manage Boo with his true power.

And again, Gohan would need to know how his power compares to Super Perfect Cell's to make the comparison to Boo.

What I said, as a possibility for Gohan knowing he is no match, was Gohan knew Boo was too strong when Boo's power exceeded Vegeta and Goku's.

Which isn't relevant isn't relevant when it was already established that Gohan knew he was outclassed before Boo's power exceeded Vegeta and Goku's.

Except it does not take much observation from a character to gauge the strength of their opponent.

What would Gohan see from Cell that would help him gauge his strength? Him knocking back Vegeta, which likely wasn't even his full power? I don't see how Gohan would somehow get a full evaluation of Cell's power from only seeing him smack Vegeta aside.

Especially if he is comparing Boo's increase to Vegeta and Goku who had surpassed him in terms of strength, as dictated by them.

Which is still irrelevant because Gohan knew BEFORE Boo's increase that he was outclassed. Why are we still discussing Boo's power after the increase?

It also still doesn't explain why Goku didn't realise until part-way through the fight that he and Vegeta were completely even when they were both fighting at max power. Something you ignored to answer.

How does Goku complementing Vegeta's power by saying it's on par with his own equate to "I was completely oblivious to how your power compared to mine until right now." ? It's literally just Goku saying that it's impressive that Vegeta matched his strength despite his intense training in the afterlife.

It also doesn't explain why Goku asked Karin to compare Cell and his battle power to see who is stronger either.

Goku had already said at that point that there was no knowing how powerful Cell could become. He was just looking for Karin to compare his strength to Karin's expectation for Cell's full power. If he only needed a comparison to Cell's current output, then he could've just stayed at the lookout and had Piccolo, Trunks, or Vegeta say how he compared.

And like I have already pointed out there is no line in the story even mentioning a character sensing their own Ki.

It's never explicitly stated, but it'd be incredibly dumb if it weren't the case. It'd be like saying you can't hear yourself when you talk, or that you can't feel your own skin, or that you can't smell your own body. There are plenty of things in the story that aren't blatantly stated but obviously inferable based on common sense. I'd honestly rather believe that a character can just feel their own Ki rather than compare someone else's Ki to someone else's Ki to someone else's movements to their own whatever. It just seems convoluted that way.

In fact, the BoG arc even reinforces this as Goku would have surely been able to sense his own God Ki or perhaps even the inability to sense his own Ki, assuming he didn't learn how to sense God Ki just by becoming one, and would have realised he was a SSJGod. Yet he had to ask if he was successful.

I don't keep up on new material, but couldn't Goku also not sense Beers even after becoming a SSG?

It also doesn't explain why every time we have a fight in which a character thinks he can beat another character even though he is vastly outmatched in terms of Ki. They would surely be able to tell they are outmatched just from comparing their Ki levels if they could sense their own Ki.

It could really just be explained as self-overestimation/arrogance. For example, Vegeta can think that he's stronger than someone, not bother comparing his Ki due to just thinking he'd be stronger, and then realize he's not after getting owned.

Anywho, this is my last reply, as I doubt either of us are going to change our view. I'd rather just say we disagree than go back and forth for no reason. If you're wondering why I didn't respond to your point about Dabra compared to Cell...well that's because I believe Gohan was a Super Saiyan, making Dabra far weaker than Cell. But that would just spark another debate, which I am also not looking for. So, there's that.