Do we expect too much from Super?

[ChronoTwigger]

People (some of them) expected for Super to be a DBZ direct and "intellectual" sequel.
I was one of them, so I started very disappointed until I figured out a great difference.

DBZ had a very strict logic for events, and a continual tension. The whole Frieza and Android saga was a "run against the clock" thing with rules, bending of rules, new tricks to save the day and the like.
It was a different kind of narration. Due to the limit of the media.

Super anime serie it's more like a piece on a bigger puzzle.
Buy the SSGod action figure, play the videogame with Beerus, share things on the web, fight Yamcha with Vegeta and loose in the card game. AND watch some show episode. It's more open as a whole concept, and less plot driven.
With new Fusion game, you'll end to have Caroly, Yamcha fused with Gohan, Satan fused with Buu... and kids like it DESPITE being canon or non canon.
Nowadays, Dragon Ball characters are franchise items, icons of themselves, not characters in a strict plot. WWW changed everything.

Super do a great work. New characters that could also defeat Goku (in DBZ logic, Frost didn't stand a chance... in Super logic, it's a character you could use in a videogame), characters like Beerus, concepts like Commeson to have evil purple alternatives of everyone.

Hating Super cause it doesn't follow DBZ standards or 'cause there's no fight between Yamcha and Champa ("so underused!")... Piccolo doesn't win a fight ("I want Piccolo get respected!")... it's not so savvy nowadays, where you can choose Piccolo in a game and beat even Broly.

(What you can criticize it's the lack of technical quality in some episode, everyone get my support on this).

[Araki]

Super anime serie it's more like a piece on a bigger puzzle.
Buy the SSGod action figure, play the videogame with Beerus, share things on the web, fight Yamcha with Vegeta and loose in the card game. AND watch some show episode. It's more open as a whole concept, and less plot driven.
With new Fusion game, you'll end to have Caroly, Yamcha fused with Gohan, Satan fused with Buu... and kids like it DESPITE being canon or non canon.
Nowadays, Dragon Ball characters are franchise items, icons of themselves, not characters in a strict plot. WWW changed everything.

The anime has always been a small part of a big franchise, always. Up to Z, the main product wasn't even the anime, but the manga. If there was a piece that mattered the most, it was the manga. Games, merchandise, they were all part of it already. The internet didn't change that.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

Hating Super cause it doesn't follow DBZ standards or 'cause there's no fight between Yamcha and Champa ("so underused!")... Piccolo doesn't win a fight ("I want Piccolo get respected!")... it's not so savvy nowadays, where you can choose Piccolo in a game and beat even Broly.
(What you can criticize it's the lack of technical quality in some episode, everyone get my support on this).

Agreed. Expectations upheld by nostalgia is really the only thing that really holds Super in relevance to most people that claim to like it. I don't really care about what character should get to do X, because as a technical standard for a modern anime, my personal standards are a lot higher than just pandering to nostalgia with character service. With how simplistic and underwhelming most of the fights were in the U6 arc, it wouldn't have made a difference who got what fight. The fights themselves are just too heads-or-tails and plot reliant that it leaves no real influence. Most of that is also due to the presentation of them either recycling fight-twists from Z, or just one-shotting opponents for the sake of a gag. With this being so normalized how, Super almost feels like its dumbed down from Z actually.

[ChronoTwigger]

Super anime serie it's more like a piece on a bigger puzzle.
Buy the SSGod action figure, play the videogame with Beerus, share things on the web, fight Yamcha with Vegeta and loose in the card game. AND watch some show episode. It's more open as a whole concept, and less plot driven.
With new Fusion game, you'll end to have Caroly, Yamcha fused with Gohan, Satan fused with Buu... and kids like it DESPITE being canon or non canon.
Nowadays, Dragon Ball characters are franchise items, icons of themselves, not characters in a strict plot. WWW changed everything.

The anime has always been a small part of a big franchise, always. Up to Z, the main product wasn't even the anime, but the manga. If there was a piece that mattered the most, it was the manga. Games, merchandise, they were all part of it already. The internet didn't change that.

Internet changed that, if you only think I've seen Super in streaming, we are discussing the franchise, we can share images and info, duel with Playstation around the world.
And if you notice, the manga now it's considered "promotional".
Once, to have people buy related stuff you had to continually air a show/draw tables, having a single storyline to talk about and engage. It was an analogic media.

With web power, a single image of Hit created a fanbase, and his 30 minutes fight was considered one of the best, while Frieza required hours (days?) to generate hype.
Cabba seems to be very liked in Japan, but how much does he talk?
And you have them already in Dokkan, Heroes, card games, gadgets and other franchise items. Maybe one day you'll see "Cabba side adventures", who knows?

Super do a good work of adding new characters without the need of complex plot that create hype for them, entwined with other Z characters.
While Z STRICTLY required an analogic narration, with a limited coherency.

(Now I'm thinking about original Gundam and Gundam Wings, to made a comparison).

[Kuririn Fan]

Everything after 1995, except 2008 special and BoG is garbage and disgrace to Dragon Ball.

[Araki]

Internet changed that, if you only think I've seen Super in streaming, we are discussing the franchise, we can share images and info, duel with Playstation around the world.
And if you notice, the manga now it's considered "promotional".
Once, to have people buy related stuff you had to continually air a show/draw tables, having a single storyline to talk about and engage. It was an analogic media.

The internet changed the easy access people have to watch episodes or buy items, sure, but i'm saying the fact the animation was just one part of a large franchise still remains. It was the same way back then, when the anime was, dare i say, an afterthought to the manga.
The status of the manga changed because it's not the original product now, and it's gonna stay behind the animation, for that reason. It doesn't have anything to do with the internet or manga in general losing value. All the things we have now (an anime, a manga, toys, games, food, whatever), they already had when the franchise peaked.

With web power, a single image of Hit created a fanbase, and his 30 minutes fight was considered one of the best, while Frieza required hours (days?) to generate hype.
Cabba seems to be very liked in Japan, but how much does he talk?
And you have them already in Dokkan, Heroes, card games, gadgets and other franchise items. Maybe one day you'll see "Cabba side adventures", who knows?

Super do a good work of adding new characters without the need of complex plot that create hype for them, entwined with other Z characters.

What you're saying always happened, believe me. Characters that were bound to be popular, would be, even shortly after appearing in the manga.

But Toriyama never needed "complex plots" to justify introducing new characters. If we take out the "big bosses" of each arc, most of his enemy characters fought only once, just to be discarded immediately, often by a single attack. That has nothing to do with the internet or the anime relevance, it's his style. The structure is a little different, because of course, it's an anime-original. Toriyama isn't writing weekly chapters.

[saiyanvegetable]

Was Super a piece of mediocre trash that often falls below and barely meets any of the standards of similar anime shows out there?

Yes.

Did we expect too much by thinking we'd get a competent, well executed sequel to one of the biggest franchises that has been on hiatus for decades?

I don't think so.

If anything, we should be angry.

[sintzu]

Super anime serie it's more like a piece on a bigger puzzle.
Buy the SSGod action figure, play the videogame with Beerus, share things on the web, fight Yamcha with Vegeta and loose in the card game. AND watch some show episode. It's more open as a whole concept, and less plot driven.

That's the problem, DB's main product was the story (the manga), not the merchandise so pushing the story to the back in favor of the merchandise is going to upset fans and rightfully so.

[Zenkashuu]

Was Super a piece of mediocre trash that often falls below and barely meets any of the standards of similar anime shows out there?

Yes.

Did we expect too much by thinking we'd get a competent, well executed sequel to one of the biggest franchises that has been on hiatus for decades?

I don't think so.

If anything, we should be angry.

From what I've read, we should be thankful that we got a new show/stuff after so many years.

The thing is.. I can't ignore its quality.

[Saturnine]

it's not so savvy nowadays, where you can choose Piccolo in a game and beat even Broly.

"EVEN" Broly. Oh my god, now that's a crazy milestone right there

Super anime serie it's more like a piece on a bigger puzzle.
Buy the SSGod action figure, play the videogame with Beerus, share things on the web, fight Yamcha with Vegeta and loose in the card game. AND watch some show episode. It's more open as a whole concept, and less plot driven.

That's the problem, DB's main product was the story (the manga), not the merchandise so pushing the story to the back in favor of the merchandise is going to upset fans and rightfully so.

I think the problem is different still. While indeed, the new chars from Super will serve to help improve the selectable/fightable roster for subsequent games, I don't think that's the primary concern. Game makers have managed just fine in the period between 1997 and 2013 from the conclusion of GT to the introduction of Beerus. If they didn't have enough original chars, they turned to the fillers or simply came up with their own is all. The problem with Super isn't that it doesn't have a story - its stories aren't short of those from Z (which were really basic, let's be honest here), it's the execution that might make the difference.

Actually, I think many people don't like Super for the exact opposite reason - that it's not enough like the games. Today's fandom cares more about shit like Full Power LSSj4 Broly being cool and buff and destroying everything than about shit like humor, character interactions and story progression.

[sintzu]

From what I've read, we should be thankful that we got a new show/stuff after so many years.

From what I've seen Toei and Toriyama should be thankful we're still supporting this franchise.

[Kaboom]

I don't think wanting Super to get a basic thing like the characters' ages correct is in any way "expecting too much."

If it can't even do something like that, which should be next to impossible to screw up with all the databooks and other resources available to the Japanese fanbase, much less the professionals at Toei... then what does that say about the quality of the show overall?

[sintzu]

If it can't even do something like that, which should be next to impossible to screw up with all the databooks and other resources available to the Japanese fanbase, much less the professionals at Toei...

As much as I hate to defend Toei it's not their fault, It's Toriyama's cause they're getting the designs from him.

[FoolsGil]

If getting a good (or any) explanation to why Trunks have blue hair or Mai is alive and young is expecting too much, then yes, I expect too much from Super.

[pacz360]

At the end of the day we expected a worthy sequel to z instead all we got was something that's barely better than gt itself for fucks sake .

[LightBing]

I don't think wanting Super to get a basic thing like the characters' ages correct is in any way "expecting too much."

If it can't even do something like that, which should be next to impossible to screw up with all the databooks and other resources available to the Japanese fanbase, much less the professionals at Toei... then what does that say about the quality of the show overall?

It's not expecting too much, but it really doesn't say anything about the quality of the show. It's apparent they don't want to specify dates, keeping all passage of time in wide terms.
Probably because the show isn't a series of well thought off arcs, but lives on a day-to-day basis. Maybe if Mr.Toriyama decides to go beyond the end of the manga, they'll whip out a guide with everything neatly explained.

[Doctor.]

I don't think wanting Super to get a basic thing like the characters' ages correct is in any way "expecting too much."

If it can't even do something like that, which should be next to impossible to screw up with all the databooks and other resources available to the Japanese fanbase, much less the professionals at Toei... then what does that say about the quality of the show overall?

You'd be surprised at the huge amount of series that get character ages wrong.

[sintzu]

Instead all we got was something that's barely better than gt itself for fucks sake .

Even that's debatable.

[saiyanvegetable]

I don't think wanting Super to get a basic thing like the characters' ages correct is in any way "expecting too much."

If it can't even do something like that, which should be next to impossible to screw up with all the databooks and other resources available to the Japanese fanbase, much less the professionals at Toei... then what does that say about the quality of the show overall?

You'd be surprised at the huge amount of series that get character ages wrong.

And another amount don't. What's your point?

[FortuneSSJ]

Instead all we got was something that's barely better than gt itself for fucks sake .

Even that's debatable.

Everything is debatable.