Would you have ended the franchise ?

[ekrolo2]

A series can go on indefinitely as long as it keeps putting out quality content. Whether it should go on indefinitely is a matter worth debating on but I think if the material we get is good well there's little room in complaining about getting more of a good thing. It's only when a rut has been hit when you need to either late it end already or find someone to give it a good boot in the ass.

Agreed which is why I have no issue with more Supernatural even after they stopped the Apcalypse or in DB because there were plenty of great moments after the Freeza arc.

Agreed, even as a guy who thinks there's a vast decline in quality after the Freeza arc, I think the series never really hit a truly awful low point of "fucking kill it already" until F then Super F again. In fact, in comparison to many of its successors like Bleach and Naruto, Dragon Ball is pretty consistently good for most of its original manga run whereas the aforementioned shonen heirs peaked early on then just dragged themselves through the mud before peaking one more time then promptly dying again.

[TheGreatness25]

Just to throw in my two cents to ABED about the whole "alternate reality" nonsense. It's fine if you're thinking that it's an alternate reality going into it. But when something is presented as part of the main story and then 20 years later turns out that it wasn't, that's not the same. It's like if they had a Batman movie series where they get to part three, you sit through the whole 2.5 our movie, and the end scene is him waking up and the whole movie was a dream. Don't know about you,but that would bother the hell out of me. That's kind of what this whole "alternate reality" GT thing is. I do think that it's kind of patronizing to say that it's okay that it's an "alternate reality" when it's not something that most people care for. Saying that Terminator 3 or 4 or 5 was a bad dream is fine, but let's see how people would react if in Terminator 6, it turns out that the entire thing dating back to the first film was the T-1000's human form's dream.

Whatever. Surprise, surprise; I"m on the minority view again. Happens often with Dragon Ball. In any event, for me, the series jumped the shark. If FUNimation doesn't bring Super to the U.S. -- which is a pretty crazy thought -- then I'll never get to watch Super and honestly, that's not skin off my ass. The series already went way too far for me, so at this point, even if it continues going on for another 20 years, I really couldn't care less. I'll just go ahead and hold onto the memories I had of the series and the "alternate reality" that spun off of it before there were Super Saiyans with red hair then blue hair and cat gods and fatter cat gods with Cell-looking guys in an Other World Tenkaichi Budokai rehash with Future Trunks returning and an evil Goku. Clearly my mindset isn't meant for the franchise anymore as I just can never seem to be on the right side of the tracks whether it's my opinion about the dub, GT, Super, or even the old stuff.

[ABED]

Just to throw in my two cents to ABED about the whole "alternate reality" nonsense. It's fine if you're thinking that it's an alternate reality going into it. But when something is presented as part of the main story and then 20 years later turns out that it wasn't, that's not the same. It's like if they had a Batman movie series where they get to part three, you sit through the whole 2.5 our movie, and the end scene is him waking up and the whole movie was a dream. Don't know about you,but that would bother the hell out of me. That's kind of what this whole "alternate reality" GT thing is. I do think that it's kind of patronizing to say that it's okay that it's an "alternate reality" when it's not something that most people care for. Saying that Terminator 3 or 4 or 5 was a bad dream is fine, but let's see how people would react if in Terminator 6, it turns out that the entire thing dating back to the first film was the T-1000's human form's dream.

Whatever. Surprise, surprise; I"m on the minority view again. Happens often with Dragon Ball. In any event, for me, the series jumped the shark. If FUNimation doesn't bring Super to the U.S. -- which is a pretty crazy thought -- then I'll never get to watch Super and honestly, that's not skin off my ass. The series already went way too far for me, so at this point, even if it continues going on for another 20 years, I really couldn't care less. I'll just go ahead and hold onto the memories I had of the series and the "alternate reality" that spun off of it before there were Super Saiyans with red hair then blue hair and cat gods and fatter cat gods with Cell-looking guys in an Other World Tenkaichi Budokai rehash with Future Trunks returning and an evil Goku. Clearly my mindset isn't meant for the franchise anymore as I just can never seem to be on the right side of the tracks whether it's my opinion about the dub, GT, Super, or even the old stuff.

Except it's not like the Dallas "last season was all a dream" or Rosanne, it's more like the DBZ movies or like the different ages/continuities in comics. Saying something is an alternate reality is in no way patronizing. If in T6, they said the whole thing was a dream, I can easily disregard it as garbage for several reasons, one of which is it won't be James Cameron's story, and two my enjoyment of T1 and T2 isn't dependent on the later movies. If within the very same film a story says "it was a dream" that's probably a big F you (e.g., Rosanne's ending). This isn't that. I think GT is perfectly fine being seen as an alternate reality story from the jump seeing as how Toriyama had nothing to do with it.

Where do you think the show jumped the shark? Your last sentence comes across as awfully self pitying and might I suggest not caring whether you share the majority's opinion.

[ekrolo2]

Is the alternate reality thing really a problem? I mean, the series has both alternate timelines and a multiverse so it's not like its there's no context for them to exist. Hell, I'm pretty sure there's official material that explicitly calls the Dragon Ball films as alternate universes.

Plus, Dragon Ball has no real set canon besides the original 42 volumes of the manga so you can safely say one thing you dislike is an AU from what you consider the main story and leave it at that.

[TheGreatness25]

Where do you think the show jumped the shark? Your last sentence comes across as awfully self pitying and might I suggest not caring whether you share the majority's opinion.

I think the series jumped the shark after the last episode of GT, if not before then. Even the "Son Goku and His Friends Return" special felt bland to me. I didn't really like Battle of Gods, although it's so highly regarded among the fandom. I tried getting into Resurrection "F," and I kind of did. But the story is so lazy in my opinion and a rehash of the fight with Freeza except with a new color scheme.

And yeah, I guess it is a little self-pitying because I seem to be the only one who feels a certain way. It's a little hard to passionately talk about something when everyone seems to disagree with my sentiments. I would passionately write a whole thing and then everyone disagrees with it. Happens once, all good. Happens twice, kind of sucks. Happens a third time, it's a little annoying. Happens all the time, it does really suck.

So if I'm the only one who finds dismissing GT as an "alternate reality" to be taking a crap on that series and its relatively small, but existent fan-base, then I guess it's just another thing that I can keep to myself and just quietly "eat it." Anyway, I guess I'm done talking about that.

[ABED]

I would've said the series jumped the shark well before GT.

[TheGreatness25]

If the series jumped the shark for enough people, then that's exactly why the franchise should have ended.

[ABED]

If the series jumped the shark for enough people, then that's exactly why the franchise should have ended.

That's for the people in charge to decide otherwise what's your standard for determining how many is "enough people"? I think most people have a good internal sense of when the tank is out of gas.

[TheGreatness25]

See, the question is if I would have ended the franchise. Personally and subjectively, hell yes because to me it jumped the shark. Clearly if I were Toei, I'd keep it going for as long as it makes 1 cent profit.

[ABED]

What do you mean by Jump The Shark?

[TheGreatness25]

The common expression of the show has gone too far for you and lost your interest.

[Cipher]

Where do you think the show jumped the shark? Your last sentence comes across as awfully self pitying and might I suggest not caring whether you share the majority's opinion.

I think the series jumped the shark after the last episode of GT, if not before then. Even the "Son Goku and His Friends Return" special felt bland to me. I didn't really like Battle of Gods, although it's so highly regarded among the fandom. I tried getting into Resurrection "F," and I kind of did. But the story is so lazy in my opinion and a rehash of the fight with Freeza except with a new color scheme.

And yeah, I guess it is a little self-pitying because I seem to be the only one who feels a certain way. It's a little hard to passionately talk about something when everyone seems to disagree with my sentiments. I would passionately write a whole thing and then everyone disagrees with it. Happens once, all good. Happens twice, kind of sucks. Happens a third time, it's a little annoying. Happens all the time, it does really suck.

So if I'm the only one who finds dismissing GT as an "alternate reality" to be taking a crap on that series and its relatively small, but existent fan-base, then I guess it's just another thing that I can keep to myself and just quietly "eat it." Anyway, I guess I'm done talking about that.

I like GT and it doesn't bother me at all that it's a dead-end possible continuation among others now. It exists, and it's particularly interesting that it was created at the end of the series' original run. But it doesn't appear that new story material is going to be written around it, and that's completely fine.

Similarly, all the post-2013 material is just another possible continuation of what was already a perfectly complete manga--and has itself two different animated versions between the original movies and TV adaptations. There's Toriyama's oiginal story, Toei's original continuation, Toriyama's continuation, Toei's adaptation, etc. And that's just the major stuff. Does it really matter, outside of what new material tries to line up with? Dragon Ball's been written to completion two or three times now. Hold close the parts you enjoy.

[TheGreatness25]

Nope doesn't matter at all clearly.

[ABED]

The common expression of the show has gone too far for you and lost your interest.

That's not exactly what it means. From the originator of the term "It's a moment. A defining moment when you know that your favorite television program has reached its peak. That instant that you know from now on...it's all downhill. Some call it the climax. We call it 'Jumping the Shark.' From that moment on, the program will simply never be the same." I still don't know if the peak is jumping the shark or when it's on the decline because the moment where Fonzie jumps over the shark is actually a great moment.

For me, I use the former meaning. The battle against Freeza was a high point and the series has been on a steady decline since. I like Battle of Gods, but the fight against Freeza was a great climax, the show just hasn't been the same since then.

[TheGreatness25]

Yep. For me the series jumped the shark and went all downhill from around Majin Boo or best case scenario, GT. The new material is so "downhill" for me, that I consider the show jumped the shark. That's exactly how I used it and meant it. Again, isn't this supposed to be a subjective thread?

[ABED]

Yep. For me the series jumped the shark and went all downhill from around Majin Boo or best case scenario, GT. The new material is so "downhill" for me, that I consider the show jumped the shark. That's exactly how I used it and meant it. Again, isn't this supposed to be a subjective thread?

How is it not?

[TheGreatness25]

Well by you questioning what I mean by in my opinion the series had jumped the shark, you're kind of questioning my subjective view. So that's why I ask.

[ABED]

Well by you questioning what I mean by in my opinion the series had jumped the shark, you're kind of questioning my subjective view. So that's why I ask.

No, I was trying to understand exactly what you meant and why. 1 - I like to know and 2 - Jump the Shark has a vague definition that means slightly different things.

[TheGreatness25]

I just mean I personally lost interest in the new material that has been coming out. For those selfish reasons, I'd prefer the series to just stop before it damages itself to me than it already did. But obviously, if it even makes a penny's worth of a profit, why not continue it? Even if it was the worst garbage that ever existed, it would still probably be at least slightly profitable just because of the name and the legacy that it has. Kind of like how Power Rangers never stopped... and never will.

[sintzu]

GT and its relatively small fan-base.

It's still small but thanks to Super it's been growing.