Dragon Ball's story arcs

[ABED]

[
You'll have to forgive me for not knowing what happens in every chapter, but what happens in 162-165?

There is always manga guide on the main site! Basically, Daimao is defeated in #161, but in the next 4 chapters, Goku goes to Heavenly Realm, meets Kami, resurrects his friends and is told that Piccolo is alive and will come to 23rd TB. So epilogue + to be continued, same as here.

Fair point, but it's better for discussion if you're more specific. In any event, yes, it's very similar to that situation. In that case, I'm inclined to think that Kami resurrecting the DB's is the beginning of a new arc as introducing a new character in the conclusion to solve problems is bad storytelling. It could be seen as deus ex machina, in more ways than one.

And you call yourself a fan ? you need to go back to DB school right way cause this is unacceptable.

I see what you did there, but I'm more familiar with the anime.

[Lord Beerus]

If I were to split up the arcs, this is how I would do it:

(Manga)
Son Gokū
Red Ribbon Army
22nd Tenkaichi Budōkai
Piccolo-Daimaō
23rd Tenkaichi Budōkai
Saiyan
Freeza
Cell
Majin Buu

(GT)
Black Star Ball
Baby
Super 17
Shadow Dragons

(Super)
Battle Of Gods
Resurrection F
Universe 6

[Kuririn Fan]

Fuck it, i'll stick with my division.

[Cipher]

As others have noted, it's a little difficult to categorize the Uranai Baba arc--if we go by plot resolution, it certainly belongs in the same arc as the Red Ribbon Army material, but then the same is sort of true for the Saiyan/Namek arcs. If we go by actual arcs--as in, story climaxes--they should be separate things. But whatever:

1) Opening arc/first hunt for the Dragon Balls
2) 21st Tenkaichi Budokai
3) Second hunt for the Dragon Balls (Red Ribbon Army and Uranai Baba)
4) 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai
5) Piccolo Daimao
6) 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai
7) Saiyan
8 ) Namek
9) Android/Cell (probably my least favorite of the original run)
10) Boo (unquestionably my favorite)

GT:
1) Baby arc (The hunt for the Dragon Balls is quickly subsumed by this looming threat--as early as episode seven. It's one arc. Nothing is really resolved tension- or plot-wise until episode 41. Due the episodic nature of the early portion of the series, it has several little climaxes--Luud and the first encounter with Baby being big ones--but it's really no different from the various portions of the Red Ribbon Army arc.)
2) Super 17
3) Evil Dragons

Super/Post-2013 material:
1) Battle of Gods
2) Resurrection "F"
3) Champa
4) Trunks/Goku Black

[ABED]

if we go by plot resolution, it certainly belongs in the same arc as the Red Ribbon Army material

It depends on what plot you're referring to. I know this is a semantic issue but if we lump them together, which I'm fine with, then I wouldn't call it all the Red Ribbon Army arc. Calling it the Red Ribbon Army implies the climax revolves around defeating the Red Ribbon Army.

[Cipher]

It depends on what plot you're referring to. I know this is a semantic issue but if we lump them together, which I'm fine with, then I wouldn't call it all the Red Ribbon Army arc. Calling it the Red Ribbon Army implies the climax revolves around defeating the Red Ribbon Army.

Which is why I prefer something broader a la the "second hunt for the Dragon Balls," which many others seem to gravitate toward. Although I personally wouldn't be bothered by a division that includes them both in a "Red Ribbon Army arc," since the Uranai Baba portion could be seen as an epilogue to a conflict that's taken up like 80% of that story line and provided the damage that must be undone by its end.

[ABED]

I wouldn't refer to it as an epilogue. That means the climax has already occurred and we're wrapping up the story, but there's a tournament with a climax all its own and in order to resolve the plot of the missing final DB, the heroes go to a new character. That means Toriyama introduced a new character in the epilogue for the purpose of solving the problem. My preference is now to think of the two arcs as mini arcs within the larger arc.

[Kuririn Fan]

It's perfect, 10 perfect arcs. This shit entertained for more than half of my life and it still does. Stuff after 1995 isn't so great, but it's still Dragon Ball - still part of the family - and i like it... *cries*

[MetaMoss]

For how I divide up the arcs, I'll just repost from a thread from six months ago:

For me, I don't think I ever had a really exact way of defining each arc; I'd just use whatever term seemed convenient at the time. Also, I also define some "sub-arcs" (i.e. the Cell Games arc, which is part of the greater Artificial Humans arc). Right now, this is what works in my head:

First Hunt for the Dragon Balls
21st Tenkaichi Budokai
Red Ribbon (with the Baba sub-arc kinda awkwardly tacked as the end of that)
22nd Tenkaichi Budokai
Piccolo Daimao
Piccolo Jr (I know it's a Budokai arc, but the threat of Piccolo is a looming presence throughout)
Saiyan
Namek (Sub-arcs: Namek Incursion [or just Namek, confusingly enough], Ginyu Force, Freeza)
Artificial Humans/Androids (Sub arcs: Trunks, 19/20, 17/18, Cell, Cell Games)
Majin Buu (Sub arcs: Seven Years Later, Fat Buu, Super Buu, Pure Evil Buu)

[TheGreatness25]

Is there any particular reason that everyone shifted from "saga" to "arc?" I remember that everything was a "saga" even before FUNimation officially rolled out that word to describe the various milestones in the series. Before Dragon Ball Z was called anything more than "Dragon Ball Z" in the U.S., the very young internet had Dragon Ball Z packaged into four "sagas": Saiyan, Freeza, Cell, and Boo. Even Dragon Ball Z - Greatest Legends for the PS1 had Vegeta, Freeza, Cell, and Kid Boo on the cover to go along with that. I've always seen the term "saga," but in the last few years, seemingly everyone switched it up to "arc." So I'm just curious if a "saga" is technically incorrect to use. Dictionary.com defines "saga" as "any narrative or legend of heroic exploits. Synonyms: epic, tale, history." So it doesn't appear that "saga" is incorrect, though "arc" seems to be more appropriate. I'm just curious if it's been the wrong word all this time. That's actually interesting because FUNimation has taken cues from the internet before. I remember back in 1998, way before "Season 3" (I know that is definitely incorrect) of Dragon Ball Z started airing on Toonami, that I would constantly look for summaries of the series online, hoping to learn what's to come -- if it would ever see the light of day in the U.S. at all. Interestingly enough, I always came across summaries that used the term "Androids." We, of course, now know that "Android" is incorrect and those characters were actually "Cyborgs," or "Artificial Humans" (strange, but it's FUNimation's official translation). Anyway, I find it funny that FUNimation seemingly took cues from the internet in regard to both "Androids" and "saga," because I really feel that "saga" was used online to split up the Dragon Ball arcs way before FUNimation officially introduced that word to describe the different points in the series.

ANYWAY...

To be honest, I feel that FUNimation did a pretty damn good job in splitting up the arcs appropriately. But I guess if we're picking a distinct period in the episodes where you don't have to rely on "Previously on Dragon Ball...," this would be my list:

Dragon Ball
1) Hunt for the Dragon Balls (the gang's introduction and first search for the Dragon Balls)
2) 21st Tenkaichi Budokai (including the training, Kuririn's introduction, etc.)
3) Red Ribbon Army (combining General Blue, Commander Red, all of that; also thorw in Baba because the whole point was to bring back Bora, who was killed in relation to the Red Ribbon Army)
4) 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai (I think that's a little more appropriate than calling it the "Tenshinhan arc;" this would include all of the training leading up to it)
5) Piccolo Daimao
6) Piccolo Jr.

Dragon Ball Z
1) Saiyan (first episode right up until they blast off into space)
2) Freeza (including everything that happens on Namek)
3) Terror From the Future (everything from Freeza and King Cold, all the way through the Cell Games; although the Cyborgs were from the present, the whole story is basically related to Trunks's future)
4) 25th Tenkaichi Budokai (everything from the Other World Budokai to the moment that Gohan's energy is stolen)
5) Majin Boo

Dragon Ball GT
1) Universal Quest for the Black-Star Dragon Balls
2) Baby
3) Super 17
4) Evil Shen Long

[MajinMan]

I go with the classic 10 arc split:

1. Hunt for the Dragon Balls
2. 21st Tenkaichi Budokai
3. Red Ribbon Army
4. 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai
5. Piccolo Daimao
6. 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai
7. Saiyan
8. Freeza
9. Cell
10. Majin Buu

GT would be:

11a. Black Star Dragon Balls
12a. Baby
13a. Super 17
14a. Evil Dragons

Super would be (so far):

11b. Battle of Gods
12b. Resurrection F
13b. Champa
14b. "Black"

My favorite arc, despite all of its inconsistent story telling, is the Majin Buu arc. I love the first 37 episodes leading up to Vegeta's sacrifice. It's my favorite portion in all of Dragon Ball and is the main reason why I love the Buu arc the most. The rest isn't too shabby either.

My (second) least favorite arc is the Cell arc. At first this wasn't the case, but over the last few months I have come to like this arc the least for whatever reason. It's just really boring at times and has that god-awful 12 episode span on those stupid islands with Super Vegeta and shit. I'm probably going to like the new "Black" arc more than this. I like the Resurrection F arc less, but I feel that it's short enough to at least sit through and finish it quickly if you have a rewatch. The same cannot be said about the Cell arc.

My (current) overall ranking would be:

1. Majin Buu
2. 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai
3. Saiyan
4. 21st Tenkaichi Budokai
5. 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai
6. Freeza
7. Piccolo Daimao
8. Red Ribbon Army
9. Champa
10. Battle of Gods
11. Hunt for the Dragon Balls
12. Cell
13. Resurrection F

[MetaMoss]

Is there any particular reason that everyone shifted from "saga" to "arc?" I remember that everything was a "saga" even before FUNimation officially rolled out that word to describe the various milestones in the series. Before Dragon Ball Z was called anything more than "Dragon Ball Z" in the U.S., the very young internet had Dragon Ball Z packaged into four "sagas": Saiyan, Freeza, Cell, and Boo. Even Dragon Ball Z - Greatest Legends for the PS1 had Vegeta, Freeza, Cell, and Kid Boo on the cover to go along with that. I've always seen the term "saga," but in the last few years, seemingly everyone switched it up to "arc." So I'm just curious if a "saga" is technically incorrect to use. Dictionary.com defines "saga" as "any narrative or legend of heroic exploits. Synonyms: epic, tale, history." So it doesn't appear that "saga" is incorrect, though "arc" seems to be more appropriate. I'm just curious if it's been the wrong word all this time.

It might be a bit of backlash against Funimation's use of the term, but I also think fans have come to a sort-of consensus that the term "saga" would be more appropriate of a descriptor for the series as a whole, rather than the story arcs that it's comprised of. When you think about it, is there any other series where the story arcs have been called "sagas"?

[ABED]

It's been over 20 years, but weren't fans using the term "saga" prior to FUNi using it?

[MajinMan]

The whole "saga vs arc" thing is strange because no other fictional series, that I know of, uses the word saga when they refer to story arcs. I feel that the we should just use the correct term and roll with it.

[ABED]

The whole "saga vs arc" thing is strange because no other fictional series, that I know of, uses the word saga when they refer to story arcs. I feel that the we should just use the correct term and roll with it.

I think other anime have adopted Saga after Dragon Ball. I know that Yu Yu Hakusho did, at least.

[MetaMoss]

I think other anime have adopted Saga after Dragon Ball. I know that Yu Yu Hakusho did, at least.

Does anyone know of any other narrative work that has used saga in this way? It'd be really interesting to see if people took this idea from some other place then adapted it to Dragon Ball.

[TheGreatness25]

The whole "saga vs arc" thing is strange because no other fictional series, that I know of, uses the word saga when they refer to story arcs. I feel that the we should just use the correct term and roll with it.

I think other anime have adopted Saga after Dragon Ball. I know that Yu Yu Hakusho did, at least.

That's what I was saying; just like how fans used "Android" first. 1998-1999 (I remember that time period vividly) was when many kids in my school were Dragon Ball crazy and would explore the deepest corners of the internet looking for info and the summaries always turned up using "saga."

[MajinMan]

That's what I was saying; just like how fans used "Android" first. 1998-1999 (I remember that time period vividly) was when many kids in my school were Dragon Ball crazy and would explore the deepest corners of the internet looking for info and the summaries always turned up using "saga."

That is pretty strange. I wasn't old enough at the time to have any sort of meaningful or logical conversation about Dragon Ball, so I can't really give my own side of the story. It does seem like Funimation may have borrowed from the fans more than we originally thought, though.

[VegettoEX]

I wouldn't doubt at all that something like a two-volume "Captain Ginyu Saga" is when fans started, in retrospect, pushing back on using that as a term. It sure sullied it for me.

It's just that 編 (hen) or 篇 (hen) both mean "chapter" or "story arc" more than than mean a longer "saga", and that's the word used for Dragon Ball stuff. So for us at Kanzenshuu, it's a very conscious attempt to be more faithful to what's written in Japanese, combined with that undeniable pushback.

Hujio wrote a bit about it in our 30th anniversary magazine (page 24).

[TheGreatness25]

I think that FUNimation did borrow that from the fans at the time. Much in the same way that they named "Majin Buu." I saw "Majin Buu" in many arc summaries back in the day (98-99), as opposed to "Boo." That could be that there might have been action figures using "Buu" or something like that (we know how that works). I think Dr. Gero's pronunciation was also kind of based on how the fans would say it. Back when all you have to go on are written words, you pronounce things a certain way. FUNimation had access to the Japanese audio and knew better, but they still went by the way fans would say "Gero" when just reading about him. It's instances like that which lead me to believe that "saga" was a fan term that they adopted. The only thing that that would show otherwise (in "saga's" case) would be the "The Namek Saga" release. If that dates to 1997-1998, I could say with certainty that I definitely did not encounter the word "saga" before then (that's the time that I personally looked up summaries and whatnot). However, my DVDs are copyrighted 1999, so if they were released in 1999 and the Namek arc was not named by FUNimation before then, then that means that I definitely came across "saga" before FUNimation adopted it.

I like "arc" over "saga," though it's weird that I used "saga" all the way up until a couple of years ago when this site kind of corrected that for me.