Trunks' Tragic Story

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

That's not tragic. It sucks for him, but that doesn't fit actual 'tragedy'. Romeo and Juliet is a tragedy because their misfortune is ultimately a result of their own stupidity despite their good intentions.

That's not a requirement for it to be a Tragedy.

according to Aristotle it is.

[MetaMoss]

That's not tragic. It sucks for him, but that doesn't fit actual 'tragedy'. Romeo and Juliet is a tragedy because their misfortune is ultimately a result of their own stupidity despite their good intentions.

That's not a requirement for it to be a Tragedy.

according to Aristotle it is.

As much as I love me some Aristotle, the man died back in 322 BC. Culture has evolved a bit since then. Trunks' story might not fit the bill of a classical tragedy, but it has tragic events that inform his character.

[ABED]

I have the utmost respect for Aristotle, but that is just one man's ideas regarding tragedy.

I know everyone's enjoying an intellectual dick-measurement contest right now

I fail to see how this is that in any way.

[Anime Kitten]

So... are we gonna get back to the Trunks part here, or stay on the Tragic part?

[ABED]

So... are we gonna get back to the Trunks part here, or stay on the Tragic part?

It's not exactly off topic.

[Cipher]

It's entirely off topic, as it's clear from the opening post the author was only looking to discuss the unusually bleak nature of Trunks' backstory.

[ABED]

It's entirely off topic, as it's clear from the opening post the author was only looking to discuss the unusually bleak nature of Trunks' backstory.

It's in the title. Is his story tragic? Sad, yes, bleak, sure, tragic, question mark.

[MetaMoss]

It's entirely off topic, as it's clear from the opening post the author was only looking to discuss the unusually bleak nature of Trunks' backstory.

It's in the title. Is his story tragic? Sad, yes, bleak, sure, tragic, question mark.

You question whether Trunks' story is tragic? Is tragic not a good descriptor of Trunks losing his dear mentor Gohan or of how he learned the father he so dreamed of meeting was a) a huge prick and b) didn't care about him?

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

It's entirely off topic, as it's clear from the opening post the author was only looking to discuss the unusually bleak nature of Trunks' backstory.

It's in the title. Is his story tragic? Sad, yes, bleak, sure, tragic, question mark.

You question whether Trunks' story is tragic? Is tragic not a good descriptor of Trunks losing his dear mentor Gohan or of how he learned the father he so dreamed of meeting was a) a huge prick and b) didn't care about him?

It's sad, but not necassarily tragic the same way Macbeth is.

[MetaMoss]

It's sad, but not necassarily tragic the same way Macbeth is.

So being tragic means being similar to Macbeth's tragedy? We're being annoyingly pedantic with terms here. I think you're thinking in terms of the classical tragedy (i.e. Greek tragedies like Oedipus Rex, Shakespeare plays like Hamlet), but that's only one way to present a tragic story.

[ABED]

It's entirely off topic, as it's clear from the opening post the author was only looking to discuss the unusually bleak nature of Trunks' backstory.

It's in the title. Is his story tragic? Sad, yes, bleak, sure, tragic, question mark.

You question whether Trunks' story is tragic? Is tragic not a good descriptor of Trunks losing his dear mentor Gohan or of how he learned the father he so dreamed of meeting was a) a huge prick and b) didn't care about him?

I can see where you would get that reading from my comment, but I meant it as "that's the question before the court". I side firmly on his life being tragic. He lives every day with the very real fear of being killed. His world is an apocalyptic wasteland where everyone is dead except for him, his mother, and a few thousand people. Others would argue that it's certainly sad but it doesn't qualify as a Tragedy unless he has some culpability.

[MetaMoss]

Others would argue that it's certainly sad but it doesn't qualify as a Tragedy unless he has some culpability.

And I think this goes back to how people here are using terms in different ways without defining them. I'll admit that Trunks' story is not a tragedy in the classical or modern sense (because it's not the story of Trunks' downfall), but a quick search on Google shows me that tragic and tragedy have two related, but separate, meanings. The first is what those who argue against its usage in Trunks' case, and I think it'd be best to call this the literary tragedy. Google's definitions for this is as follows:

trag·e·dy

a play dealing with tragic events and having an unhappy ending, especially one concerning the downfall of the main character.

trag·ic

of or relating to tragedy in a literary work.

This isn't a good descriptor at all for Trunks' story, as it ends on a high note at the end of the Artificial Humans arc, with him returning to his future to destroy 17, 18 and Cell. If you count the upcoming arc with Goku Black, most likely that will also end pretty well for him. Trunks' doesn't have a downfall that ends his tale, and he certainly does not have one due to his own imperfections or failings, as many literary tragedies end up being caused by those. But there is a second definition, which I think I will call the colloquial tragedy. Google's definitions:

trag·e·dy

an event causing great suffering, destruction, and distress, such as a serious accident, crime, or natural catastrophe.

trag·ic

1) causing or characterized by extreme distress or sorrow.

2) suffering extreme distress or sorrow.

This is what folks are meaning when they call Trunks' life tragic or a tragedy. I'd say, with these definitions, that Trunks' whole life is not a tragedy, but it is certainly full of tragedy. His story has him "suffering extreme distress or sorrow" quite a bit, so, for a colloquial tragedy, Trunk's story fits the bill, in my opinion.

[Draconic]

trag·e·dy

a play dealing with tragic events and having an unhappy ending, especially one concerning the downfall of the main character.

trag·ic

of or relating to tragedy in a literary work.

trag·e·dy

an event causing great suffering, destruction, and distress, such as a serious accident, crime, or natural catastrophe.

trag·ic

1) causing or characterized by extreme distress or sorrow.

2) suffering extreme distress or sorrow.

By both definitions Trunks' story fits as a tragedy. In the literary sense, it is a tragedy because all the heroes get killed because of their own shortcomings (in a martial arts show, like Dragon Ball, being weak is a shortcoming). It's not Trunks' tragedy per se, but a tragedy is the foundation of his story. On the other hand, in the coloquial sense, the Android attack is a tragedy and everything that makes Trunks who he is, therefore, tragic.

[ABED]

Funny, I was only thinking of the Trunks TV special, not his entire arc, in that case I wouldn't call it a classical Tragedy.

[Xiao Long Li]

What is so tragic about Trunks' backstory? He plays no active role in his own misery.

He lives in an apocalyptic future where he is surrounded by death and then we have the death of Gohan.
How is this even a question?

That's not tragic. It sucks for him, but that doesn't fit actual 'tragedy'. Romeo and Juliet is a tragedy because their misfortune is ultimately a result of their own stupidity despite their good intentions.

There's clearly a difference between the adjective tragic in the English language and as part of our vocabulary, and the genre of tragedy in English literature. People are clearly using it in the former sense.

[MetaMoss]

By both definitions Trunks' story fits as a tragedy. In the literary sense, it is a tragedy because all the heroes get killed because of their own shortcomings (in a martial arts show, like Dragon Ball, being weak is a shortcoming). It's not Trunks' tragedy per se, but a tragedy is the foundation of his story. On the other hand, in the coloquial sense, the Android attack is a tragedy and everything that makes Trunks who he is, therefore, tragic.

My point was that Trunks' story is not a literary tragedy, but it can still be called "tragic" because of how much colloquial tragedy is a part of it. You could say, in Trunks' backstory, that some characters do end up having a literary tragedy. There is the "Tragedy of Son Goku", where Goku dies not because of a strong foe, but a disease that is immune to his strength and power. Then, there is the "Tragedy of the Z Warriors", where the rest of our main fighting cast (sans Gohan), unaware of the impending threat of the Artificial Humans, end up failing against their overwhelming power. Finally, there is the "Tragedy of Son Gohan", which is the only one that Trunks actually experienced firsthand. But, in Trunks' case, Gohan's death becomes a colloquial tragedy, as of the great distress and sorrow it causes him.

Main thing I was arguing here was that some folks were saying that you couldn't describe Trunks' story as "tragic" because it's not a literary tragedy. I agree that it's not a literary tragedy, but there's more than one definition, and Trunks' story fits the bill for being tragic in the colloquial sense, as he ends up experiencing quite a bit of colloquial tragedy.

Funny, I was only thinking of the Trunks TV special, not his entire arc, in that case I wouldn't call it a classical Tragedy.

I wouldn't say that even the TV special is a classical tragedy for Trunks, either. Classical tragedy ultimately leads to the downfall of the protagonist, and the tragedy's arc entertains the audience in how the protagonist is progressing to/through that downfall. We don't watch the Trunks TV special because we enjoy seeing Trunks fail due to the hands of fate or his own imperfections. Rather, we want to see his perspective on the world so that we can understand his motivations for traveling back to the past and his other actions during the Artificial Humans arc. We want to know his story and understand the suffering he went through to get to the point where we meet him for the first time.

There's clearly a difference between the adjective tragic in the English language and as part of our vocabulary, and the genre of tragedy in English literature. People are clearly using it in the former sense.

I've been attempting to reconcile the two for a bit here. I don't know why some folks are under the impression that tragic can only describe a literary tragedy.

[ABED]

The Trunks TV special is about showing how hopeless his situation was and the only way he could

Classical tragedy ultimately leads to the downfall of the protagonist

One can easily argue that it's Trunks' hubris that leads to him losing to the Cyborgs. Instead of waiting for his mother to finish the time machine, he rushes headstrong into a battle he can't win and nearly kills him. There's irony in that as what should be his lowest point ends up being the most hopeful. It's his defeat that leads him to going back. I think that the biggest thing that keeps it from being a Tragedy is there's no change, because I would argue that Trunks does experience a downfall.

[MetaMoss]

One can easily argue that it's Trunks' hubris that leads to him losing to the Cyborgs. Instead of waiting for his mother to finish the time machine, he rushes headstrong into a battle he can't win and nearly kills him. There's irony in that as what should be his lowest point ends up being the most hopeful. It's his defeat that leads him to going back. I think that the biggest thing that keeps it from being a Tragedy is there's no change, because I would argue that Trunks does experience a downfall.

Good point, but that's a mistake that Trunks makes at the very end. The TV special's arc isn't about how his failures lead up to this downfall, it's more of a coming-of-age tale, with all the triumphs and failures along the way.

[ABED]

One can easily argue that it's Trunks' hubris that leads to him losing to the Cyborgs. Instead of waiting for his mother to finish the time machine, he rushes headstrong into a battle he can't win and nearly kills him. There's irony in that as what should be his lowest point ends up being the most hopeful. It's his defeat that leads him to going back. I think that the biggest thing that keeps it from being a Tragedy is there's no change, because I would argue that Trunks does experience a downfall.

Good point, but that's a mistake that Trunks makes at the very end. The TV special's arc isn't about how his failures lead up to this downfall, it's more of a coming-of-age tale, with all the triumphs and failures along the way.

What triumph are you referring to? Everything is leading to Trunks' final confrontation. It's not an episodic story. Everything is leading to that battle and his decision.

[MetaMoss]

What triumph are you referring to? Everything is leading to Trunks' final confrontation. It's not an episodic story. Everything is leading to that battle and his decision.

There's a small triumph in that he survives to actually travel in the time machine. His hubris to take on 17 and 18 is a mistake he learns and grows from, not a fatal flaw that ends up ruining him irrevocably like the protagonist of the classical tragedy.