So who or what is Black?

[Xeztin]

I am sorry, do you know what "context" means (if not, tell me)? I am saying "do not take my post out of the actual relation to reply to it in a relation that you wish my post is thought to be in". My posts where written with the context of answering your "it is Goten" stuff. Then you started answering my post of "this is out of nowhere" with listing many details that have virtually nothing to do with Goten like I said "that is out of nowhere" and also would have replied with my post with stuff like you listed in consideration. Which I did not. I said you took my answer out of context - and mixed it together with other stuff. We have had that talk about Goten for a few posts. So it was very easy to understand what I was referring to.
And if you really insist to bring up new stuff like the Kaioushin and Zenou and all - what they said about Zenou does not mean they will actually bring in anything about the destroyed universes. The writers are fully allowed to say it and then never bring it up ever again. Or even only bring it up to say "hey, this guy is strong". They have no obligation to use it as a plot detail. If they do - cool. But as things are now you are only bringing up theories with very thin evidence, just as I said.

I actually said that stuff about the kaioshin, Zeno, and Goten a few pages back before you even replied to mine. You said it being Goten came out of no where-that's what you was referring to, I gave you information as to why I THINK it's Goten, or WHY it could be Goten. It's a theory, it's a guessing game, like everyone else. Your Alternate Kaioshin theory is just as wild as mine since no one has an alternate except Beerus. Goten has sleeves, Black has sleeves. It's just a fun theory to back how it COULD POSSIBLY be Goten. Just so you know, a theory doesn't have to have any evidence. I realize your a bit soar at the whole It could be Goten but don't take it out on me. It could be Chi chi in disguise for all we know. The thread's about who Black could be, so obviously it's asking for theory's, and if you don't like them your in the wrong place. Also I'm not the original one who suggested it to be Goten or his resemblance and sleeves. Your barking up the wrong tree, mate.

[Doctor.]

We know that Trunks created more than one timeline so what if this is a Goku who never returned from Yardrat but instead wandered the universe and ended up like this somehow ?

If it's literally gonna be Goku, then I like Chuquita's hypothesis best: that this Goku went back in time to save his friends and after so many failures, he started to become like this.

I really like the idea of a pure Goku being corrupted, rather than it just being a shapeshifter, clone or someone possessing him.

[sintzu]

It could be Chi chi in disguise for all we know.

That's probably how she'd act if she had powers.

[Xeztin]

It could be Chi chi in disguise for all we know.

That's probably how she'd act if she had powers.

She's going to kill to Sayians for making her life a living hell!

[ryou766]

It could be Chi chi in disguise for all we know.

That's probably how she'd act if she had powers.

I could see it now.

Chi-Chi levitating above a defeated Trunks: "Finally... This will be your final day of slacking off from your studies. Saiyan."

[LightBing]

First thing it came to mind while watching the episode, was that it's someone who potara-fused with dead Goku. We know it works with the dead. It could be anything really.
I find it very interesting that Black only recently learned how to feel ki. That 100% excludes him being a version of any Goku.

[Hit!!]

So, Pilaf's gang wish happened earlier in the Future Trunks Timeline? But the numbers do not add up. Wasn't Mai before the wish already in her 40s, maybe 50s? Unless the time between the end of the Androids Saga and the arrival of Black is not the same amount of time as compared with the original timeline from Cell's death to today?

No, it happened at the same time. Mai before the wish was in her 40s or 50s. After the wish, she became young and then started growing up normally at about the same rate as Trunks in both timelines.

This makes sense, the only mistake here is that EOZ took place in age 784 (this is where Uub appeared in the main timeline), which is the same year Future Trunks went back in time for the first time in his own timeline (also age 784).

This means that what we saw in episode 47 of Dragon Ball Super was probably the same year GT took place in the main timeline.

[Hit!!]

To sum it all up, the same year that Future Trunks went back in time (in DBZ), was the same year that the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai took place in the main timeline (when Goku went off to train with Uub, etc).

Which means that Present Trunks in EOZ was the same age Future Trunks was when first appeared in DBZ.

[vilker]

I think Black Goku is a new universe's hakaishin.

Look the earring in his ear is like the hakaishins earrings or pearcings on Beerus (left ear) and Champa (right)

[Vados_chan]

Goku from one of the universe that Zeno destroyed who somehow escaped.

[The Monkey King]

My theory is that since it was mentioned that there was once 18 universes before the Omni-King destroyed 6 of them there were 3 mirror universes instead of 2.

Let's say that the universe Black Goku lived in before it was destroyed was universe 13. In this universe Goku had become some kind of a Kai or God of Destruction and had grown bored/slightly crazy after being the strongest being in his universe for so long.

After the Omni-King had his tantrum and destroyed the 6 universes included Black's Native universe 13 he somehow comes to the conclusion that saiyans from universe 7 were responsible for the destruction of his home universe, and so he decides to kill all saiyans in all timelines, in all universes.

I also suspect that the reason why the Omni King destroyed those universes in the first place was because Black Goku challenged him to a fight (an aggressive mirror version of how universe 7 Goku approached the Omni-King). This annoyed the Omni-King so *BOOM* 6 universes gone.

Although it's also likely that a kai is using Goku's body (perhaps his was the strongest in the afterlife) to kill all saiyans because of a personal vendetta.

[G Slim]

What if black really is the green kaoshin that somehow was able to switch bodies with Goku, that explains a lot like why he referred to trunks as a "saiyan" and why he's still learning gokus techniques (trunks said black recently just learned how to read ki) and why it took him a whole year to finish off the remaining people left on earth (bulma, trunks, Mai) cause we know as evil as black is with gokus abilities he could've wiped everyone out in less than a day. And when you look at the green kaoshin in the new OP he doesn't look threatening or evil at all, granted we still don't know anything about that character or their personality.

[Nejishiki]

My theory is that since it was mentioned that there was once 18 universes before the Omni-King destroyed 6 of them there were 3 mirror universes instead of 2.

Now that's a plot twist I would enjoy! It would be expertly hidden, if that happened to be the case.

[Hit!!]

Goku black being from one of the 6 destroyed universes makes absolutely no sense, due to Goku only existing in U7. Guys, you're making the classic mistake of confusing universes with timelines. The only twin universe U7 has is U6 and in U6 there's no Goku, actually, saiyans are completely different from their U7 counterparts and earth was destroyed long ago in that universe. So Black Goku being from another universe is completely out of the question and anybody who insists on this theory is not paying attention to the series AT ALL.

To make things a bit clearer, what I mean is that the theory of Black Goku being from one of the destroyed universes is absolutely IMPOSIBLE, due to the fact that GOKU DOES NOT EXIST OUTSIDE OF U7. There could be some sort of a counterpart of Goku in U6, just like Cabba is presumed to be Vegeta's U6 counterpart, but it wouldn't be Goku himself, it would be some other low level saiyan warrior with enourmous potential, but with another name and character design, and similar circumstances, born without a tale and with thin eyebrows like Cabba (according to Cabba, U6 saiyans evolved to such a degree that they no longer have tails).

[vilker]

Yeah but saiyajins are sometimes very similar, can be a saiyajin but not Goku, like Tullece. If this saiyajin came from one of the destroyed universes, maybe the green kaioh shin was able to time travel before the Zeno's destruction and save this Black in this timeline. Or maybe in this timeline there are still 18 universes.

[Chiki]

My theory is that since it was mentioned that there was once 18 universes before the Omni-King destroyed 6 of them there were 3 mirror universes instead of 2.

Let's say that the universe Black Goku lived in before it was destroyed was universe 13. In this universe Goku had become some kind of a Kai or God of Destruction and had grown bored/slightly crazy after being the strongest being in his universe for so long.

After the Omni-King had his tantrum and destroyed the 6 universes included Black's Native universe 13 he somehow comes to the conclusion that saiyans from universe 7 were responsible for the destruction of his home universe, and so he decides to kill all saiyans in all timelines, in all universes.

I also suspect that the reason why the Omni King destroyed those universes in the first place was because Black Goku challenged him to a fight (an aggressive mirror version of how universe 7 Goku approached the Omni-King). This annoyed the Omni-King so *BOOM* 6 universes gone.

Although it's also likely that a kai is using Goku's body (perhaps his was the strongest in the afterlife) to kill all saiyans because of a personal vendetta.

Very clever, that would be nice. But I don't see why Black Goku would target Trunks in that case.

[Cetra]

I actually said that stuff about the kaioshin, Zeno, and Goten a few pages back before you even replied to mine.

Then you cannot answer with that like I would have answered to that if I have obviously only answered about Goten.

You said it being Goten came out of no where-that's what you was referring to ...

Even if you have meant that you have written it like i would not believe the other stuff as well. That is why I even posted you that I was not referring to that other stuff that did not even interest me. I was referring to Goten, correct. You, however have answered like I would find everything you said - stuff that you suddenly started listing again - ridiculous. And that is where all that comes from. I do not know why you are trying to twist these things now.

Your Alternate Kaioshin theory is just as wild as mine since no one has an alternate except Beerus.

Okay, you do not know what an Alternate Entity is.

Champa is NOT Alternate Beerus. Not in the context of Alternate Timelines. Champa is Beerus's brother who is part of the "sister universe" of Universe 7. Future Trunks is an Alternate Version of our Trunks. Why? Because he is from an Alternate Timeline. Out Trunks is an Alternate Version of Future Trunks. Why? Because he is from an Alternate Timeline from Future Trunks' view. Future Bulma is an Alternate version of Bulma. The Cell Gohan defeated is an Alternate version of the Cell Kuririn killed. And so on. That is an Alternate Entity. Future Trunks IS Alternate Trunks. That is what an Alternate Timeline makes. The Legend of Zelda: Three Timelines. Alternate Links. You can call other stuff Alternate but then we have to talk about another context again. And in that context a) my guess i not random because there is no reason not to beliebe the Kaioushin exists on Trunks's timeline (other than Goten) and - and even more important - I even told you: It surely is not true anyway. Also, the Kaioushin very much looks like our Kaioushin apart from the colours. Goku and Goten on the other hand just share a face of many characters. So even weirder to say it is Goten.

Goten has sleeves, Black has sleeves. It's just a fun theory to back how it COULD POSSIBLY be Goten. Just so you know, a theory doesn't have to have any evidence.

You do not know that evidence is not automatically the same as proof, it can also be a hint that leads into a certain direction to at least make you think thing x is right without already proving it. And that is what i was talking about. If you do not have anything to back up this theory then it flat out is out of nowhere. That is just how it is. You have exactly one - one - thing in-universe and that's the sleeves. And that is why I said you are grabbing onto very, very thin evidence. Almost nothing at all.

I realize your a bit soar at the whole It could be Goten but don't take it out on me.

...

Your barking up the wrong tree, mate.

A provocation attempt now? Trying to push that "it is your fault" card to me? This discussion is over. You do not even read what I wrote as I even said it is not about me and Goten. I am "a bit soar" because of you, not because of Goten. I cannot talk to people who are not interested in reading a post and then respond with something that is not even appropriately fitting and that makes me mad. I am at least taking my time to read what my communication partner writes. I for example re-read my own posts to even make them better and easier to understand for people because I just want them to understand me - not that this is a guarantee for them understanding me but I at least try. However you talk and then start switching back and forth slightly between contexts and misunderstanding words and then try to provoke by saying "you just do not like that idea". I cannot and do not want to have such a conversation and after 12 years of internet discussions I am fairly sure that there will not even be a PM to handle things like "I meant that like ... we both had a bit of a communication problem" but only a new reply here that follow the same problematic pattern which means the discussion stays futile. So a peaceful good day.

[Xeztin]

Yes the conversation is over, and yes it is your fault for spouting rudely "that is so out of no where". Youve resulted to insults by trying to imply I'm too stupid to understand what your saying. Your theory has no more merrit than mine or anyone elses, your just grasping at straws to covince yourself your in the right. You could have simply ignored it yet you chose to be a smart ass. A theory is a theory, don't like it? Move on. I'm not going to argue with you that yours is better than mine. Its stupid. I never tried to push my theory on you, it is you who is pushing "no evidence". Which is insane. Id suggest you stop before derailing this thread and causing Mike or the staff to intervene. I gave more reasons than sleeves in and out of universe but your stuck on sleeves. You started it and I finished it. Move on.

[ryou766]

Yeah but saiyajins are sometimes very similar, can be a saiyajin but not Goku, like Tullece. If this saiyajin came from one of the destroyed universes, maybe the green kaioh shin was able to time travel before the Zeno's destruction and save this Black in this timeline. Or maybe in this timeline there are still 18 universes.

I doubt there are Goku lookalikes outside of U7.

[emperior]

Basing on the fact Toriyama's comment says "Black Goku!?" It leaves the possibility Black isn't actually Goku, or else he wouldn't have put the "!?"
For now, all we know is that Black looks just like Goku. He seems younger but if we consider Goku was a lot younger than he is now when he died in the future, then it would make sense.

I really like the theory that Black is actually Goten. I don't like the theories that say he is a shapeshifter, it would make no sense for a shapeshifter to take the appearance of Goku.

If he is Goten, it would be cool if he was actually trained and controlled by the Kaioshin and maybe he doesn't even know he actually is a Saiyan.