Strength in Spirit rather than Body?

Lavender Saiyan · Post by **Lavender Saiyan** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:20 am

I've been pondering something lately. When a character is killed and loses his body yet recieves a new one in other world, how is it that their PL is still just as strong?

Think, when Tien, Piccolo, Yamcha & Chioutzu died against the Saiyans, their bodies were left on earth. They recieved new ones in other world, yet their strength did not fall. Same with Vegeta after his death by Buu. His body was destroyed yet he got a new one and his PL remianed the same, with the same abilities & SSJ levels that he had before his death.

This leads me to believe that it's your spirit that retains your power rather than strength. If Yemma could just create super powerful bodies & attach a spirit to them wouldn't that mean he could have made Vegeta stronger or just make some Super fighter?

Snail · Post by **Snail** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 3:56 am

They don't necessarily gain new bodies, they're souls that much I'm sure about. Those who retain their original abilities and such probably were granted permission to by the various Kai's that look after the afterlife.

When was Yemma able to create bodies? =S.

Lavender Saiyan · Post by **Lavender Saiyan** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:13 am

Well, Yemma states that he gave Vegeta a body.

Snail · Post by **Snail** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:38 am

Ah, I see what you mean. I believe there is no direct answer to your question, but I'd say that there should be rules that apply to the afterlife occurances.

I'm pretty sure Yemma can't create 'super strong bodies', all he does is create a physical being for the spirit to host. Then, the body's appearance and shape would take form as the spirit bonds with the physical being. Thus, it depends on the spirit itself, not the body.

By the way, shouldn't this be in the 'Dragonball Questions?' section?

Lavender Saiyan · Post by **Lavender Saiyan** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:54 am

Well, I was asking a question but posing my theory at the same time.

Snail · Post by **Snail** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 5:32 am

Okie Dokes

mAcChaos · Post by **mAcChaos** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:58 pm

I think what he meant was that he let Vegeta keep his body, even though he was supposed to lose it.

Lavender Saiyan · Post by **Lavender Saiyan** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 5:32 pm

mAcChaos wrote:I think what he meant was that he let Vegeta keep his body, even though he was supposed to lose it.

Vegeta's body was compleye destroyed

Eclipse · Post by **Eclipse** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 5:42 pm

Think, when Tenshinhan, Piccolo, Yamcha & Chioutzu died against the Saiyans, their bodies were left on earth. They recieved new ones in other world, yet their strength did not fall. Same with Vegeta after his death by Buu. His body was destroyed yet he got a new one and his PL remianed the same, with the same abilities & SSJ levels that he had before his death.

Their bodies were never really destroyed, like Vegeta's. In a sense, in 'Other World', their 'bodies' were a physical manifestation of their soul/spirit, since they weren't needed in the afterlife. When returning to the real world, their bodies were returned to them, since they were completely intact.

That's what I like to think of it =P

mAcChaos · Post by **mAcChaos** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 6:47 pm

Lavender Saiyan wrote:
mAcChaos wrote:I think what he meant was that he let Vegeta keep his body, even though he was supposed to lose it.
Vegeta's body was compleye destroyed

Well, I didn't think of that ever being his actual, physical body. I mean, when we all think of going to Heaven we don't think we're physically there, do we? Whatever form we might have.

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 7:49 pm

Eclipse wrote:
Think, when Tenshinhan, Piccolo, Yamcha & Chioutzu died against the Saiyans, their bodies were left on earth. They recieved new ones in other world, yet their strength did not fall. Same with Vegeta after his death by Buu. His body was destroyed yet he got a new one and his PL remianed the same, with the same abilities & SSJ levels that he had before his death.
Their bodies were never really destroyed, like Vegeta's. In a sense, in 'Other World', their 'bodies' were a physical manifestation of their soul/spirit, since they weren't needed in the afterlife. When returning to the real world, their bodies were returned to them, since they were completely intact.

That's what I like to think of it =P

Unlike Goku's whose was pulled into the after life, they never explained how Yamcha and co.'s bodies got there, other than Chaozu's was re-assembled. Hence, the old dub's censoring made it more explainable in my view weirdly enough.

Eclipse · Post by **Eclipse** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:12 pm

Unlike Goku's whose was pulled into the after life, they never explained how Yamcha and co.'s bodies got there, other than Chaozu's was re-assembled. Hence, the old dub's censoring made it more explainable in my view weirdly enough.

Their bodies were never there. Other than that whole 'soul body manifestation' thing I just said, if I remember, the others (I think it was Bulma specifically) collected their bodies and kept them somewhere. (For example, when Krillin got killed by King Piccolo, his body was placed in a capsule, right?)

Swift · Post by **Swift** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:37 pm

Eclipse wrote:Their bodies were never there. Other than that whole 'soul body manifestation' thing I just said, if I remember, the others (I think it was Bulma specifically) collected their bodies and kept them somewhere. (For example, when Krillin got killed by King Piccolo, his body was placed in a capsule, right?)

I don't know about the anime, but we don't actually see what becomes of their bodies in the manga. The last they're mentioned is when Kuririn tells Goku to fight with Vegeta in another location to avoid damaging the bodies. I'd assume that their physical bodies, like Goku's, were teleported to the afterlife by Kami-sama (although they didn't disappear right away, I suppose). Even going by the anime, you have to assume that their physical bodies were transported to them eventually, as if they were just souls in the afterlife they'd just look like those puffy white cloud things.

And I believe Kami-sama specifically states to Enma-sama that Goku was there with his physical body, not a manifestation of a body made by his soul... So I do think they actually retain their real world bodies in the afterlife.

Eclipse · Post by **Eclipse** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:21 pm

I don't know about the anime, but we don't actually see what becomes of their bodies in the manga. The last they're mentioned is when Kuririn tells Goku to fight with Vegeta in another location to avoid damaging the bodies. I'd assume that their physical bodies, like Goku's, were teleported to the afterlife by Kami-sama (although they didn't disappear right away, I suppose). .

Didn't Bulma mention that she'd go and pick up the bodies when she (and that plane of theirs) got Goku, Krillin, and Gohan after the whole battle?

Even going by the anime, you have to assume that their physical bodies were transported to them eventually, as if they were just souls in the afterlife they'd just look like those puffy white cloud things.

Because of their deeds, they got to keep their bodies. So yeah =P

Swift · Post by **Swift** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 1:13 am

Eclipse wrote:Didn't Bulma mention that she'd go and pick up the bodies when she (and that plane of theirs) got Goku, Krillin, and Gohan after the whole battle?

*checks volume*

o_- *wince* Seems I've made a mistake. They do indeed go pick up the bodies and put them in those coffin-like capsules after the Vegeta battle in the manga. Didn't recall that, for some reason... Sorry about that. ^^;;

Anyway, looking through some more of the manga here... When Goku (through Kaiô-sama) asks Yamcha how Chaozu is has a body if he blew up, Yamcha replies, "Kami-sama was able to regenerate even his body!". The use of the term "regenerate" makes me think that the characters who's bodies are blown up merely have their old bodies restored, rather than them being given completely new bodies, thus why they're strength would remain exactly the same. I don't think their strength is tied to their spirit alone... That'd be a little too unrealistic. All that muscle has to do something.

Lavender Saiyan · Post by **Lavender Saiyan** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 1:42 am

Yes but the Vegeta thing brings in the most question.

Eclipse · Post by **Eclipse** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:21 am

I don't think their strength is tied to their spirit alone... That'd be a little too unrealistic. All that muscle has to do something.

I've been thinking about this for a while, and I've come up with this.

Their strength is tied to their spirit/soul...enough so that the soul itself can influence it. (After all, Vegeta claimed that he was weaker than Goku because he fought for fun, pleasure, etc, while Goku fought just to test himself. And another example, while Mr. Satan may be an ok martial artist, half the time he's just promoting himself). The muscles can only take your personal level so far up. After that, they're just a boost.

Pieter · Post by **Pieter** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 4:33 pm

Let's see what can happen to a spirit cloud again:

http://db.schuby.org/daizex/viewtopic.p ... 3&start=40 scroll down.

Mr.Piccolo · Post by **Mr.Piccolo** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 4:43 pm

I think the concept of a person's physical body changed during the saiyan saga. After the battle against Raditz, Kami took Goku's body for special training with King Kai. At this time, everyone still thought Piccolo was a demon so Kami was actually confused with the fate of Raditz's soul because it was said that those killed by a demon would end up wondering as lost souls or something crazy like that.

Anyway, after the battle against Nappa it was said that Kami restored Chaozu's body (which was blown to bits). ... Krillin's restoration is similar to this..Goku loses his body against Cell but gets a new one...Same goes with Vegeta.. These aren't explanations, just examples of events that happened in both the anime and manga. I'm just extremely confused at the concept of bodies in the Dragonworld...

-Rick

Kanzenshuu

Strength in Spirit rather than Body?

Strength in Spirit rather than Body?

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