"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Xeztin]

Didnt he skip it?I guess you are right, there is a chance he can do it, but we never see him do it though.

In order to reach SsjB he would've had to be able to use Ssjg and even Ssj3 first.

We can't actually say which versions is closer to Mr.Toriyama script, no way of knowing.

I think Toyotoro said he works closely with Toriyama so his version is most likely the closest.

This is probably true, because I get the vibe Toei wants a new transformation every arc, and those two aren't new transformations, so they went with SSJB Kaio-Ken. Adding two colored aura's just didn't scream Toriyama design to me. If there's a SSJ White or whatever it'll probably have a different hair style in the manga.

[sintzu]

Super Saiyan 3 has nothing to do with God forms.

The Saiyan that attained Super Saiyan God didn't even have Super Saiyan form to begin with.

The Saiyan wasn't using his own power to hold the form unlike Vegeta so if he's strong enough to use that form and Ssjb on his own, wouldn't that mean he can use Ssj3 as well ?

[ekrolo2]

The anime makes more sense.

How can Beerus who said he used 10% of his power to beat ssj2 vegeta be stronger than Goku who trained with Whis, trained with Vegeta for 3 years, has a stronger Ssjg form & can multiply its power 10× ?

Exactly! The anime is a total mess, the manga, if you keep in mind specifically what it says on matters without needlessly (and stupidly) trying to force in details from the movies & TV show makes more sense than either of them. At least the manga gives you a clear hierarchy of whats what with base < SSJ < SSG < SSB

[sintzu]

It was also stated in the movie that Goku absorbed the power of the God. The difference is that he didn't absorb all of it, so he ended up being slightly weaker. But still strong enough to impress 70% Beerus.

He might've lost it when he absorbed Beerus' attack cause Vegeta said next time they needed that power he'd do the ritual so why would he say that if Goku still had it and didn't need the ritual ?

[Xeztin]

The anime makes more sense.

How can Beerus who said he used 10% of his power to beat ssj2 vegeta be stronger than Goku who trained with Whis, trained with Vegeta for 3 years, has a stronger Ssjg form & can multiply its power 10× ?

Exactly! The anime is a total mess, the manga, if you keep in mind specifically what it says on matters without needlessly (and stupidly) trying to force in details from the movies & TV show makes more sense than either of them. At least the manga gives you a clear hierarchy of whats what with base < SSJ < SSG < SSB

So can we now say that the manga has a better hold on it's power levels? Damn, now I really wish Toyotaro did the RoF arc.

[Grimlock]

The Saiyan wasn't using his own power to hold the form unlike Vegeta so if he's strong enough to use that form and Ssjb on his own, wouldn't that mean he can use Ssj3 as well ?

Not necessarily, because again, Super Saiyan 3 has nothing to do with God forms. If Vegeta can transform into it, that's solely because Vegeta has power enough to achieve it.

Tarble can turn into Super Saiyan God, but he doesn't have power enough to become Super Saiyan, for example.

[namekiansaiyan]

The anime is better and makes more sense.

I agree. Not to mention the anime made things more intense, and I loved how they page homage to the Kaio-Ken ability.

Also, does Goku not have a time limit for SSJG anymore? Or did he simply ascend into SSJB before the time limit for SSJG could run out?

I do not know, we basically will have to fill in the gaps by ourselves and come to our own conclusions. We cant mix and match anime and manga anymore.

The anime makes more sense.

How can Beerus who said he used 10% of his power to beat ssj2 vegeta be stronger than Goku who trained with Whis, trained with Vegeta for 3 years, has a stronger Ssjg form & can multiply its power 10× ?

Exactly! The anime is a total mess, the manga, if you keep in mind specifically what it says on matters without needlessly (and stupidly) trying to force in details from the movies & TV show makes more sense than either of them. At least the manga gives you a clear hierarchy of whats what with base < SSJ < SSG < SSB

He has to use 10% to stop Vegeta completely and Vegeta was not at 10% of his power.

[ryou766]

I absolutely loved when Goku casually shook the hand of the Omni-King, both in the anime and the manga.

I do not know, we basically will have to fill in the gaps by ourselves and come to our own conclusions. We cant mix and match anime and manga anymore.

It makes me wonder if mastering SSJG is even a possibility.

[sintzu]

So can we now say that the manga has a better hold on it's power levels? Damn, now I really wish Toyotaro did the RoF arc.

The 2 biggest issues aren't in the manga so yeah, in that regard and pretty much everything else it's better.

[ekrolo2]

He has to use 10% to stop Vegeta completely and Vegeta was not at 10% of his power.

What does this have anything to do with what I said? The 10% line isn't even in the manga at all, nor is even the movies comment about Vegeta being stronger than Goku when he rages out.

[LightBing]

At this point I just think Mr.Toriyama didn't specify how the fight would happen, besides Goku starting in base and figuring out Hit's technique. Toyotarõ went in this direction, Toei in the Kaioken x10 direction . I don't feel comfortable saying a version is closer to the script of Mr.Toriyama without proof.

I would love to be in the writers room when they came up with Kaioken x10, probably the same guy who wrote SSJ Kaioken.

At least the manga tries to make sense, I'm very grateful it exists. Anime is fun, but come on writers!

[Khin]

It was also stated in the movie that Goku absorbed the power of the God. The difference is that he didn't absorb all of it, so he ended up being slightly weaker. But still strong enough to impress 70% Beerus.

He might've lost it when he absorbed Beerus' attack cause Vegeta said next time they needed that power he'd do the ritual so why would he say that if Goku still had it and didn't need the ritual ?

The thing is. Base Goku in RoF was able to dominate Final Form Freeza, the same Freeza who was heavily implied to be several times stronger than Piccolo and Gohan. It was implied many times that Base Goku in RoF was more or less on par with Super Saiyan God. Unless you think Goku jumped from being weaker than Namek Freeza to Super Saiyan God tier. There's also the " Saiyan Beyond God " thing, which was stated to be a Saiyan with the power of the Super Saiyan God.

At this point I just think Mr.Toriyama didn't specify how the fight would happen, besides Goku starting in base and figuring out Hit's technique. Toyotarõ went in this direction, Toei in the Kaioken x10 direction . I don't feel comfortable saying a version is closer to the script of Mr.Toriyama without proof.

Didn't Toriyama said he would like Toyotaro to do his own thing ? He probably gave TOEI and Toyotaro a chance to do their own thing.

[sintzu]

If Vegeta can transform into it, that's solely because Vegeta has power enough to achieve it.

Tarble can turn into Super Saiyan God, but he doesn't have power enough to become Super Saiyan, for example.

That's my point, if Vegeta had enough power to reach the god levels on his own without the ritual, then he can use Ssj3 as well cause reaching the god levels would've required more power then Ssj3.

Let's say Vegeta's power was a 5 and in order to reach Ssj3 he needs to be a 7 and in order to reach SsjG he needed to be a 9 and in order to reach SsjB he needed to be a 12, if he's currently 12 then that means he can use what needed a 7 and 9.

How could he not have enough power to reach Ssj if he can reach SsjG ? that only applies to Saiyans who use the ritual.

[Xeztin]

I believe that if Toyotaro done the RoF arc, that Goku wouldn't have fought true form Freeza in his base, but in Super Saiyan, and would have matched Freeza's Golden form with SSJB. I know he did that 3 part manga for the movie, but that was for the movie so he probably had no intention of doing anything different from what was in the movie in the case of misleading people. The reason I say that now is because of Goku going SSG again. At the very least, if Goku did try to tackle Freeza in his base, he'd get his butt kicked before going into SSJ.

[sintzu]

At least the manga tries to make sense, I'm very grateful it exists. Anime is fun, but come on writers!

The writers aren't trying to make sense, they're trying to sell toys and hero cards which is why they came up with that form.

[ekrolo2]

I believe that if Toyotaro done the RoF arc, that Goku wouldn't have fought true form Freeza in his base, but in Super Saiyan, and would have matched Freeza's Golden form with SSJB. I know he did that 3 part manga for the movie, but that was for the movie so he probably had no intention of doing anything different from what was in the movie in the case of misleading people. The reason I say that now is because of Goku going SSG again.

He did do some things differently still. Piccolo isn't barely holding out a Zarbon tier mook nor is Gohan one shotted by first form Freeza. They're both implied to be inferior to Freeza but there's nothing like the movie or TV show where there's a massive chasm between them just by virtue of how he man handles Gohan no problem.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

More as we get to it, I guess....

Goku does indeed use Super Saiyan God in the manga version. Goten calls it Super Saiyan Red, but Trunks corrects him for being dumb and tells him it's Super Saiyan God. So they seem to be making fun of themselves.

Goku has the ability to transform and make himself stronger than Hit, but his Time-Skip is troublesome. So he conserves energy throughout the battle by transforming to only the stage he needs at the time.

Goku in Super Saiyan God is stated to be stronger than Vegeta in Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, and Goku can still utilize the latter transformation himself to grow even stronger. (Feels like karma for the anime bullshit of having Vegeta skip SSG.)

No SSGSS Kaio-ken.

[Khin]

At least the manga tries to make sense, I'm very grateful it exists. Anime is fun, but come on writers!

The writers aren't trying to make sense, they're trying to sell toys and hero cards which is why they came up with that form.

They can also sell toys with Super Saiyan God with the RoF outfit. The anime writers don't care about the power scaling because they ain't like us fans who over analyze thing like power consistency.

[namekiansaiyan]

So in the manga SSB Vegeta is weaker than SSG Goku so I also prefer the anime because of this reason.

[HeroR]

I believe that if Toyotaro done the RoF arc, that Goku wouldn't have fought true form Freeza in his base, but in Super Saiyan, and would have matched Freeza's Golden form with SSJB. I know he did that 3 part manga for the movie, but that was for the movie so he probably had no intention of doing anything different from what was in the movie in the case of misleading people. The reason I say that now is because of Goku going SSG again. At the very least, if Goku did try to tackle Freeza in his base, he'd get his butt kicked before going into SSJ.

He did do a version of Resurrection 'F' that was a preview for the movie. He fought Freeza in base form and beat back Freeza's true form. The manga ended before Freeza turned to Golden Freeza and Goku turned blue.