The "Saiyan beyond God" form from Dragon Ball Heroes is base Goku from FnF movie, who is indeed at SSG level. In BoG, it was stated that Goku got insignificantly weaker after he went from SSG to base, FnF had no mention of Goku getting any weaker than before, and the FnF manga shows that base Goku is at SSG level. According to DBH, he has become even stronger than SSG by the time FnF starts, which would be reasonable since base Goku was slightly weaker than SSG in BoG, while he has trained with Whis for a year in FnF.RandomGuy96 wrote:That's also clearly not a literal statement of strength. It's a reference to the "Saiyan Who Has Surpassed God" label for his post-god base. We know for a fact that that THAT form was still weaker than SSG.
Super retconned all these. In the anime, the base form appears to be 50 times weaker than SSG, and in the manga, Goku never absorbs any of the SSG power.
No, SSB is repeatedly said to be a form that surpasses SSG.More explicit proof that base/SS/SSG doesn't work the same as it does during the Beerus fight: SSB is explicitly said to be as powerful as SSG.
Before Vegeta smilled & tanked Cabba's punch, he was fighting at a level close to him, since he had some trouble with him when they were fighting in the same form, which shows that Vegeta's SS form works like Cabba's.Yes, but I was asking if there was actually explicit proof of that, rather than supposition.
EDIT: In addition to not even flinching from Cabba's punch, he also sits still, smiles, and lets Cabba pelt him with dozens of ki blasts, to absolutely no effect.
Like I said, just because he wanted to kill Gotenks doesn't mean that he wasn't holding back, he was already fighting at a level that Gotenks stood absolutely no chance. Freeza did exactly the same thing back on Namek.He has a reason not to transform: just being in the state drains stamina (same logic as not breaking it out for every fight at the tournament). On the other hand there's really no logic for not one-shotting Gotenks if he can in base. There's especially no sense in letting Gotenks block punches.
Additionally no one at any point notes he changed his battle power when he fights Goku, which would have been pretty important to mention. if he was "suppressed", then it would also be peculiar for Goku to suppress himself to the exact same level to fight him at first, rather than being at full power in base. Nor would it make any sense for Goku to not note he was suppressed, either when fighting him or when sensing his ki from Kaio's planet and coming to the conclusion that Vegeta's trying to kill Gotenks.
We literally see Copy-Vegeta powering-up against Goku. I can't understand why you over-complicate things.
