"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Baggie_Saiyan]

^Also the fact that Goku and Black will meet in episode 3 (probably won't start fighting until episode 4) but that seems too soon right? I definitely think there is a lot more going on.

[MaGyunia]

Zzzzzz Goku black being just a threat to the earth is boring, make him a universal threat please.

If the Zen-ou-sama feels it necessary to get involved in the fight against him somehow then it most certainly means he's powerful enough to mean a threat to the entire universe, but everyone evil since Cell was. He's a threat to ALL the universes, now that we know there are 12.

It’s the start of a battle that surpasses time and space, and drags in the God of Destruction, Kaiōshin, even the Omni-King! Many mysteries will be revealed!

That and the new Kaioshin-looking guy makes me think there's much more going on here.

Even more mysteries? We didn't have enough time to absorb and make full sense of the immensity of new stuff which has been thrown our way in recent years, to achieve definitive and final answers when it comes to putting certain new events in light of the old ones, and they keep inventing and making it harder and harder to absorb, to understand, to rationalize.

There are so many entities introduced in the latest years in Dragonball that far surpass previous DBZ threats that it begs the question: why didn't any of them intervene before? It will take years of rationalizing stuff to make sense of all of this, and I do need to make sense of it as a fan. They should focus more on charging the series with more seriousness and good fighting choreography than on constantly introducing stronger and stronger beings with no end in sight. No one was supposed to be above the Kaioshin, but Beerus is. No one is supposed to be above Beerus, but Whis is. No one is supposed to above Whis or Vados, but then we get presented with a childlike creature who apparently has limitless power and can destroy ANYTHING in a flash. This last one screwed me over.

[Dbzfan94]

I'm thinking Zamasu / green Supreme Kai is definitely a Makaioshin

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Considering the description we got before any of this started, I'm pretty sure it's going to extent beyond Earth:

That and the new Kaioshin-looking guy makes me think there's much more going on here.

Yeah. The pacing for 47 & 48 was pretty good, but the NEP for Episode 49 left me feeling that we suddenly kicked too far into overdrive. Granted that's only based on our limited knowledge of the arc and what we've been shown thus far. But Toriyama's comment and the fact that we haven't seen Zamasu yet leaves me with hope that regardless of how things seem right now, that we're still only at the tip of the iceberg.

[MaGyunia]

Yeah. The pacing for 47 & 48 was pretty good, but the NEP for Episode 49 left me feeling that we suddenly kicked too far into overdrive. Granted that's only based on our limited knowledge of the arc and what we've been shown thus far. But Toriyama's comment and the fact that we haven't seen Zamasu yet leaves me with hope that regardless of how things seem right now, that we're still only at the tip of the iceberg.

This all clearly goes far beyond merely saving Mirai no Trunks' future timeline. Trunks doesn't even yet know about Majin Buu and the Kaioshin, let alone Beerus, Whis or the Zen-ou-sama, or the fact that there are 12 universes. Hell, he doesn't even know Goku has been brought back to life. He's traumatized, sure, but he probably doesn't even know himself how far this goes and how serious a threat Black is not to his timeline, but to ANY timeline of ANY universe. Exactly how and why Black came to be, who created him, why he looks like Goku or how he acquired such insane amount of power can at this point be only subject to speculation, and this time around, unlike before, there really isn't much to base ourselves upon when we theorize. I hope they don't screw up the plot after finally presenting us with such a serious, evil and interesting villain by coming up with a stupid or far-fetched explanation for his existence and actions. This arc has the potential to make DBSuper remarkable and worthy of the best of DB and DBZ, so let's hope that's what we get and that they keep Black's and Mirai no Trunks' appearances as ominous, desperate and serious as they have been up until now since the arc began.

Or it could very well be that Black is actually Goku messing around after having no challenges left; he acquired the ability to Shunkan-Idou to the future, wiped out most of the Earth and killed Bulma and Mai for the lulz of it and to "bring forth Trunks' true power", having no other way to do it. Remember, Goku asked Karin and Yajirobe if what they were doing was interesting and amusing, as in, he's really running out of challenges, dude. Gonna turn evil just to see if I can defeat myself, lol. Gonna mess with time and space and everything, and after I win I'll eat until I blow up. Or it could be that Black is gonna be defeated in two episodes by Puar, who is a cat, and you shouldn't mess with cats, who rule the entire universe of universes, like Hakaishin Birusu-sama.

Sorry for this last paragraph, I just felt like letting off some steam after so much serious actual analysis.

[Araki]

If the Zen-ou-sama feels it necessary to get involved in the fight against him somehow then it most certainly means he's powerful enough to mean a threat to the entire universe, but everyone evil since Cell was. He's a threat to ALL the universes, now that we know there are 12.

I don't think Zen-ou will be involved in the fight per se, my guess is that they'll face the risk of whatever is happening to U7 could enrage him. That talk in episode 47 must account for something.

No one was supposed to be above the Kaioshin, but Beerus is. No one is supposed to be above Beerus, but Whis is.

How does that make sense when they were introduced together? You're making it sound like that wasn't the case.
And hierarchically, Whis isn't above Beerus.

Yeah. The pacing for 47 & 48 was pretty good, but the NEP for Episode 49 left me feeling that we suddenly kicked too far into overdrive. Granted that's only based on our limited knowledge of the arc and what we've been shown thus far. But Toriyama's comment and the fact that we haven't seen Zamasu yet leaves me with hope that regardless of how things seem right now, that we're still only at the tip of the iceberg.

The title of the next episode is "A Message from the Future! Goku Black invades".
If this message comes from Black as it is implied, i'm guessing they'll barely clash for now.

[MurkMcGwire]

I have a feeling that Black Goku might not play as big a role as he's coming off. i feel that his presence and involvement will segue into what the REAL threat is. Kinda like when the Androids were introduced and it turned out to be Cell that ended up being the focal point of that arc.

[dblack]

Episode's titles and summaries didn't leak this month and I find more thrilling this way. I'm ok with knowing details about the next week's episode but knowing what is going to happen in three or four weeks spoils the plot a lot.

I think they learned their lesson from the U6 arc. We knew 90% of the outcomes pre-fight and I think that hurt the quality of some of the episodes. Specifically the episode Vegeta almost ring-outs but ends up on that rubble or whatever. Would've been a "no way!" moment but we already knew he was gonna beat Magetta.

I personally prefer spoilers but I can't deny they have negative effects sometimes.

[MaGyunia]

I have a feeling that Black Goku might not play as big a role as he's coming off. i feel that his presence and involvement will segue into what the REAL threat is. Kinda like when the Androids were introduced and it turned out to be Cell that ended up being the focal point of that arc.

I hope not, but it could turn out that Black is indeed extremely and immensenly powerful, to an absurd degree, but only under the control of another, mysterious entity. But you mentioned the Jinzouningen. Well, I always saw the Saiya-jin arc as a prelude to the Freeza arc, as there are obvious strong connections and links, and the Jinzouningen episodes as a prelude to the Cell arc. Toriyama probably at some point saw #17 and #18 as too likeable as villains to have DBZ revolve around them as main evil villains and introduced Cell as a result, just the same way as he did when he figured fat Majin Buu wasn't being taken too seriously by the viewers and readers as a villain because of his physique and introduced the concept of Buu's ability of absorption/transformation to provide him with a more menacing look in the form of all the Super Buu versions and finally, or should I say originally, Kid Buu.

[Araki]

I think they learned their lesson from the U6 arc. We knew 90% of the outcomes pre-fight and I think that hurt the quality of some of the episodes. Specifically the episode Vegeta almost ring-outs but ends up on that rubble or whatever. Would've been a "no way!" moment but we already knew he was gonna beat Magetta.

I personally prefer spoilers but I can't deny they have negative effects sometimes.

The problem is that Toei's titles usually give too much away.

Other series manage to release summaries and such without hurting the experience, with Toei that's almost impossible. So i hope we remain in the dark for the rest of the arc.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

The title of the next episode is "A Message from the Future! Goku Black invades".
If this message comes from Black as it is implied, i'm guessing they'll barely clash for now.

I'm fairly certain the message is both Trunks' warning about Goku Black and the notebook addressed to Bluma mentioned in the blurb on the Toei website. It's likely from Future Bluma...possibly with the information on how to get Trunks back to the future, since it was supposed to be a one way trip?

[Xeztin]

Black isn't the "main villain" he's probably just a powerful underling stronger than his creator or master. Them meeting up in episode 3 definitely shows their's a lot more to come in my opinion. We haven't seen the Kai yet and if I remember the fights supposed to pull Zeno, The God's of Destruction, and all the kais into it and none of them have shown up yet.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Toriyama probably at some point saw #17 and #18 as too likeable as villains to have DBZ revolve around them as main evil villains and introduced Cell as a result

Actually, we know the story behind this. Artificial Humans #19 & #20 were there originally intended main villains, but Toriyama's former editor called him after they debuted and told him to change them because they are an old geezer & a fatso. So, #17 & #18 were introduced, but his former editor called him once again and told him to change them as well because they are two punks. And then Cell was introduced.

[fadeddreams5]

Black isn't the "main villain" he's probably just a powerful underling stronger than his creator or master. Them meeting up in episode 3 definitely shows their's a lot more to come in my opinion. We haven't seen the Kai yet and if I remember the fights supposed to pull Zeno, The God's of Destruction, and all the kais into it and none of them have shown up yet.

I feel the biggest threat in this arc will be the Omni King. Future Trunks and Black are playing around with time and space. The latter might very well jump from timeline to timeline. This is likely going to **** up reality, making Zeno very angry. As was foreshadowed in episode 47, you don't want Zeno angry.

[Noah]

I don't give a f*** about Zeno, I still hate that the lord of all the existence looks like a f****** pokémon, it make this series even more childish than already is, he could have at least have an imposing design, I can only hope for Black or Zamasu owns his smug ass.

Bout next episode:

I don't think we'll see Goku vs. Black already, probably the NEP are just trying to hyping us, hope we get what we didn't in this episode: FLASHBACKS explaining what the f*** happened in the future after Cell was killed.

[Araki]

The title of the next episode is "A Message from the Future! Goku Black invades".
If this message comes from Black as it is implied, i'm guessing they'll barely clash for now.

I'm fairly certain the message is both Trunks' warning about Goku Black and the notebook addressed to Bluma mentioned in the blurb on the Toei website. It's likely from Future Bluma...possibly with the information on how to get Trunks back to the future, since it was supposed to be a one way trip?

It could be that, too, but i have the feeling the time rift we see behind Black is temporary..

[UpFromTheSkies]

But is there a different Omni King for each time line? There could be someone higher up than him that rules over all the time lines.

[Grimlock]

Alternate timelines aren't another Universes, alternate timelines are worlds within the same space/planet from its respective Universe, Omni-King is above that concept, which means there's only one, he's a multiversal singularity. But I like to think Akira Toriyama/Tori-bot is above Omni-King, I'd love for him to make an actual appearance and correct anything Goku Black might destroy, like a whole Universe, for example (since Omni-King doesn't seem to have the power to create a Universe, just destroy it).

[TheMikado]

Alternate timelines aren't another Universes, alternate timelines are worlds within the same space/planet from its respective Universe, Omni-King is above that concept, which means there's only one, he's a multiversal singularity. But I like to think Akira Toriyama/Tori-bot is above Omni-King, I'd love for him to make an actual appearance and correct anything Goku Black might destroy, like a whole Universe, for example (since Omni-King doesn't seem to have the power to create a Universe, just destroy it).

Well know the hierarchy could go either way and the omni King was never said to have any power or authority over time. It's like arguing with is more important time or space and does time exist within space or does space exist within time.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

I wouldn't be so sure about that. The main timeline we follow in Super is not the original. If the other Universes and all that weren't copied as well when the timelines split, then Champa almost certainly shouldn't be interacting with our characters in Super. And if all the other universes have issues with characters time traveling and splitting things, it only complicates matters worse on how Zeno would keep track of all the versions of the Hakaishin, which timelines of what Universes he would travel to for fighters, etc.

Until proven otherwise, I'd imagine when the timelines split, EVERYTHING from Zeno on down is copied. Like all the alternate versions of Zeno and the Universes exists in the same space, but just on a different "frequency". With each Zeno taking care of everything within his own frequency for the sake of simplicity.