Is Super just filler??

[TheMikado]

Dragon Ball Super Kai with all filler cut out, total episodes 13 maybe? LOL. I just watched the movies to get where I wanted and watched the rest after that on episodes. but this show has way too much filler/ nothing going on but eh what can you do

It's funny because you're the exact type of fan people claim don't exist. One who won't go directly from the movies to the Champa arc buy the reality is there are a lot of people who will becoming from any variety of versions to different point of the series/manga. Not saying you have to account for all but you should certainly expect the fanbase to be a wreck after that.

[dbzfan7]

I think the man himself would wonder why the hell people are taking canon so seriously, and getting into fights about his creation for children. I would love to see a representative tell him about people getting up in arms about canon, and see what his response to the seemingly mostly adults arguing is.

[TheMikado]

I think the man himself would wonder why the hell people are taking canon so seriously, and getting into fights about his creation for children. I would love to see a representative tell him about people getting up in arms about canon, and see what his response to the seemingly mostly adults arguing is.

I think the canon debate is silly too but when I got here I was beating over the head so hard with the "canon" stick that I learned it's better to get generally acknowledged canon straight before posting in here.

[Cetra]

I think the man himself would wonder why the hell people are taking canon so seriously, and getting into fights about his creation for children. I would love to see a representative tell him about people getting up in arms about canon, and see what his response to the seemingly mostly adults arguing is.

Thinking about how I read comments from him on the main page when he talked about anime staff like "those guys know more about Dragon Ball than me" (I think it was about a game though? I do not remember) and other stuff as well as the fact that he seems to be a pretty relaxed person I would say he does not give a flying freeza.

[PsionicWarrior]

I don't agree with your way of defining a particular event as canon or non-canon. To me, and I'm not the only one who thinks this way, canon is any event that does not contradict the series' main timeline. According to that theory, events like Movie 9 would be canon.

We'll have to agree to disagree here, I hardly can recognize as canon anything not coming from original author, of course he can fuck up, but any other source is inevitably based-on.

Besides, regardless of how bad GT was - and it was - calling it "fan-fiction" is a little far-fetched, to say the least. There's a difference between fan-fiction and an anime series made by professionals, regardless of its (lack of) quality.

Is not because they get a paycheck it can't be fan-fiction, GT is to me clear example of fan-fiction, or rather, to be more precise, quick-cashgrab fan-fic. OK you guys are going to say Super is cashgrab too, and it is indeed, but hard not to see the difference.

[TheMikado]

^ wow GT is fan fictiony and Super isn't?

[PsionicWarrior]

Well, yeah.. GT is written by Toei and Super by Toriyama or am I mistaken?

[TheMikado]

Well, yeah.. GT is written by Toei and Super by Toriyama or am I mistaken?

Toriyama involvement has been said to have been an outline for super, not actually writing the story. That said the level of actual involvement and detail of Toriyama is in debate to being anything from a highly detailed outline to a rough few thoughts on a paper napkin. Basically Toriyama could have involvement in Super anywhere from just below Dragonball Z levels to close to GT/movie levels of hands off involvement.
Toei seems to be keeping the specifics of the arrangement vague likely for people such as yourself who feel GT is invalid because of Toriyamas involvement.

[PsionicWarrior]

Toei seems to be keeping the specifics of the arrangement vague likely for people such as yourself who feel GT is invalid because of Toriyamas involvement.

Tbh I mostly reject GT because I consider it to be crap, but if we speak about whether it is canon or not, I can't accept it as such if Toriyama had no involvement in it.

[TheMikado]

Toei seems to be keeping the specifics of the arrangement vague likely for people such as yourself who feel GT is invalid because of Toriyamas involvement.

Tbh I mostly reject GT because I consider it to be crap, but if we speak about whether it is canon or not, I can't accept it as such if Toriyama had no involvement in it.

He did have some involvement though it's not like he just went make up everything characters included. He did the designs of the characters, logos, and places they would visit so he was at least aware of the plot of space travel and various worlds of he was drawing the locations they would visit. To be honest character design, logo, and general set design sound like a lot more involvement than this mysterious outline that exists somewhere.

Also lets not make this about GT but I don't even know what evidence of any at all that Toriyama made the show "Super" or did the character designs. We know GT was invented title wise by Toriyama as well as the entire main cast. We dont even know if that's the case for Super at all at this point or if he even had that much level of involvement in Super's anime production at all.

[PsionicWarrior]

We know GT was invented title wise by Toriyama as well as the entire main cast. We dont even know if that's the case for Super at all at this point or if he even had that much level of involvement in Super's anime production at all.

OK, I got my sources from wiki, if there is more behind the curtains I do not know.

[dbzfan7]

Guys can we not keep making this about GT? GT doesn't have anything to do with this topic. Quite frankly I'm getting sick of it being compared to Super. Especially by people who hate it. They should be comparing Super to DB/Z and have it compared to the better quality show, not the lesser quality show. The more I see it compared to GT, the more I get the feeling that it's not worthy to even be compared to DB/Z. Especially since I hardly ever see anyone compare it to DB/Z.

[PsionicWarrior]

Guys can we not keep making this about GT? GT doesn't have anything to do with this topic. Quite frankly I'm getting sick of it being compared to Super. Especially by people who hate it. They should be comparing Super to DB/Z and have it compared to the better quality show, not the lesser quality show. The more I see it compared to GT, the more I get the feeling that it's not worthy to even be compared to DB/Z. Especially since I hardly ever see anyone compare it to DB/Z.

Sorry if my opinion of GT hurts your feelings, my intention is certainly not to derail the thread, but inevitably GT and Super can eventually end up in same topic since it's after all what came beyond Z.

[TheMikado]

Guys can we not keep making this about GT? GT doesn't have anything to do with this topic. Quite frankly I'm getting sick of it being compared to Super. Especially by people who hate it. They should be comparing Super to DB/Z and have it compared to the better quality show, not the lesser quality show. The more I see it compared to GT, the more I get the feeling that it's not worthy to even be compared to DB/Z. Especially since I hardly ever see anyone compare it to DB/Z.

Well the topic is whether Super is considered "filler" most filler by definition has been content not from the original creator. This is a production discussion then. The comparison to GT is due to the production methods I.e. How much involvement does Toriyama actually have in Super. The only thing we have close for reference in this style of production is GT and the movies. So no, based on production alone Super doesn't even really belong in the same discussion as DB/DBZ. Since GT is already established by the community as non canon based on the level of involvement the day test now applies to Super and as I'm really looking at it now there is becoming less and less evidence of a level of involvement. Arguably GT and Super could have similar levels of involvement with GT having a lot of work done initially interms of design and little plot with the exception of the premise and a few locations. while Super could have been zero design but a general outline.

[dbzfan7]

Guys can we not keep making this about GT? GT doesn't have anything to do with this topic. Quite frankly I'm getting sick of it being compared to Super. Especially by people who hate it. They should be comparing Super to DB/Z and have it compared to the better quality show, not the lesser quality show. The more I see it compared to GT, the more I get the feeling that it's not worthy to even be compared to DB/Z. Especially since I hardly ever see anyone compare it to DB/Z.

Sorry if my opinion of GT hurts your feelings, my intention is certainly not to derail the thread, but inevitably GT and Super can eventually end up in same topic since it's after all what came beyond Z.

It doesn't. I don't care if you love it or hate it. I find it peculiar that Super gets more comparisons to GT, than it does to DB/Z. I find people are more afraid to compare those three. Especially since Super is placed directly inside the Z events, and is supposed to tie the 10 year gap to the end. Yet the inconsequential 5 years after the end is worthy of more comparison? It's even funnier when those people consider GT shit, and still compare the two. Especially if they like Super and compare it to GT. If Super keeps being compared to garbage, then what the hell does that say about Super whether it's better or not? It's apparently not comparable to DB/Z, but better than GT. That really doesn't sound very good to me. Being better than something some consider bad is not praise worthy. That's a participation ribbon. It gives me the impression that even those who like Super, wouldn't call it a worthy successor since it's hardly ever compared to what it's supposed to succeed. It's just compared to GT mostly to try and validate it's existence more. If the best of Super comparisons we can get is "At least it's not GT", that's pretty shitty for Super if that's the best it can do.

[TheMikado]

^ you do realize a lot of people consider Super "bad" definitely not in the same category as Z. Right now it's competing in terms of popularity and fan mindshare/reputation against GT. So yes many if not most fans feel Super is lacking and that right now it's comparable to GT. There's nothing wrong with you liking it, but just because you do doesn't make it a technically good work either.

[dbzfan7]

^ you do realize a lot of people consider Super "bad" definitely not in the same category as Z. Right now it's competing in terms of popularity and fan mindshare/reputation against GT. So yes many if not most fans feel Super is lacking and that right now it's comparable to GT. There's nothing wrong with you liking it, but just because you do doesn't make it a technically good work either.

I think it is comparable to GT. I just find the mentality of comparing something to so called garbage dumb. I heard plenty of people with the opinion that GT is garbage and Super is good or at least ok. Ok great, now can I hear how it compares to Dragon Ball/Z, something I hardly ever hear.....and then nothing. I've seen the comparison to GT a lot, and that's not going away. I get the strong feelings of how it compares to GT. I want to know how people feel it compares to Dragon Ball/Z. That to me matters more. How does the so called "True" successor fair? Does it do the series justice? Is it a waste of time? Is it garbage? Is it a shining return? That I'm curious to.

It's like how people got really upset about Gohan, Piccolo, and Boo. A lot of those complaints and comparisons I'm sure people have heard dozens of times already, and probably want to see something new. I feel the same way. I've seen tons of GT comparisons, and far less comparisons to what really matters. How Super compares to it's good predecessors.

[PsionicWarrior]

Hey mate we were simply discussing with Mikado then you arrive shouting at us we can't say GT this or GT that because it makes you sick you say, chill out.

If Super keeps being compared to garbage, then what the hell does that say about Super whether it's better or not? It's apparently not comparable to DB/Z, but better than GT.

GT was on the side of the discussion, you are completely missing our point which was more about Toriyama's involvement.

[dbzfan7]

Hey mate we were simply discussing with Mikado then you arrive shouting at us we can't say GT this or GT that because it makes you sick you say, chill out.

If Super keeps being compared to garbage, then what the hell does that say about Super whether it's better or not? It's apparently not comparable to DB/Z, but better than GT.

GT was on the side of the discussion, you are completely missing our point which was more about Toriyama's involvement.

Alright fair enough. Perhaps I missed that part of the discussion. All I know is Toriyama writes at most an outline, and then someone else fills the rest of the script. That's pretty much what his F script was. A pretty bare bones piece. Lastly it seems the Black arcs story ideas were handed to Toriyama according to insider information from a reliable source.

[GodKaio-Ken]

I don't think it's filler simply due to the fact that even though Toriyama isn't "writing" it per se it is set almost directly after Buu and follows his idea for the next stage of the DB story even if some think its poorly executed.

I mean if Super is filler everything else released at this point would have to be as well unless it was written by Toriyama directly and I personally dont want DB to end how it did with Uub. Possibly the worst ending to anything I've been emotionally invested in ever (IMO).

EDIT: I dont mean literally changing the Uub ending but rather the series giving me something else to stop watching at.