Listen to the fans or not

[ABED]

Should Toei or Toriyama or just writers in general listen to the fans? I say no.

[Kamiccolo9]

Of course not. The fanbase (any fanbase) as a single, conglomerate entity, are a bunch of raving, frothing idiots who will never agree on what the best course is. I mean, look at this forum. You have people who want to turn DB into a calculator based RPG where numbers dictate everything, people who want the series to turn into an R rated gorefest, people who want it to be entirely poop jokes, people who care nothing about what they perceive as consistency, people who care too much about what they perceive as consistency, etc.

It's the author's story. He or she understands it on a deeper level than any fan will, by virtue of the story being an extension of the author's self. Fans should not, and, since most authors are not stupid, usually do not dictate the course of a series. No self respecting author lets popular demand control the outcome of a story. Unless popular demand is the point, like the voting on whether or not Robin died.

As far as comics go, there's even legal precedent strongly warning against it. Check out the clusterfuck that was the black-suited Spider-Man ordeal. There's a reason why comic book authors often expressly tell fans not to send in ideas. No one wants to have to fight for legal ownership of a story.

[ABED]

The only sense in which I think popular opinion matters is if you're losing lots and lots of viewers/readers.

[Grimlock]

If they didn't listen to the fans, a lot would be different now. Even the fan-favorite and precious Vegeta wouldn't be around.

I would say just a little, a little fan-service is good but only if done right (*looking at what they have done to Freeza*), but since they don't know how to "handle" the fan-service, I'm inclined to say "no" nowadays.

[Protege]

The direction of the series has been heading to the point where there is lack of original new ideas. Everything is too predictable and revolves around puns and every possible dragon ball villian lacks character development and automatically is subjected as a stereotypical bad guy that wants to destroy everything. So for me Toriyama already ruined dragon after he started catering more to infants and pre schooled kids instead of to actual fans.

And i dont think future trunks arc is gonna fix this, there is probably gonna be plenty of light hearted comedy and jokes along the lines of every new episodes which we already seen before. Which is also something that in the original dbz became pretty rare to see. So I'm not convinced that the series actually changed.

[successoroffate]

Long Answer: Depends, are they going to listen to well behaved fans with actual knowledge of the show who give constructive critiques or to some of the characters we have here in the forum ( or used to have). You know the type, the type that gets banned...more than once.

Short Answer: No.

[ABED]

The direction of the series has been heading to the point where there is lack of original new ideas. Everything is too predictable and revolves around puns and every possible dragon ball villian lacks character development and automatically is subjected as a stereotypical bad guy that wants to destroy everything. So for me Toriyama already ruined dragon after he started catering more to infants and pre schooled kids instead of to actual fans.

And i dont think future trunks arc is gonna fix this, there is probably gonna be plenty of light hearted comedy and jokes along the lines of every new episodes which we already seen before. Which is also something that in the original dbz became pretty rare to see. So I'm not convinced that the series actually changed.

But Dragon Ball used a lot of light hearted humor and was successful. And how are preschooled kids not actual fans?

[dbzfan7]

By listen if we mean look at a suggestion and maybe think about it, sure. If we mean pander to what the fans demand, then that's tricky. Liking a suggested idea and using it is fine. Using ideas just because the fans want it may not turn out well.

[PsionicWarrior]

Depends on what. For example fans raged about poor drawings and animations at the start of Super, now we have better drawings and animations. Regarding story or power ups or anything else, I think it is good to at least not being disconnected with the fanbase but be able to discern what is good feedback and pure BS. Constructive and valid points are what they are, and so is the creator's vision.

[sintzu]

Of course not. The fanbase are a bunch of idiots who will never agree on what the best course is.

It's the author's story. He or she understands it on a deeper level than any fan will.

Us "idiots" are the reason Toriyama and Toei's workers aren't living under a bridge. I'm not saying they have to do everything we tell them to but they should at least communicate with us and take popular criticisms seriously.

Super's 5th episode was criticized by nearly everyone yet Toei said it wasn't that bad and we were making a big deal out of nothing so are you saying that they're right and everyone else is wrong about its quality ?

So what you're saying is that the only reason fans shouldn't contribute to Super's story is because it's Toriyama's ? what if the exact same story was written by someone else, then would you be OK with fans demanding it to change certain things ?

[ABED]

He's the reason you are a fan of Dragon Ball, so he doesn't owe you anything.

[sintzu]

He's the reason you are a fan of Dragon Ball, so he doesn't owe you anything.

And we're the reason him, other authors and company workers aren't sleeping under a bridge.

[ABED]

He's the reason you are a fan of Dragon Ball, so he doesn't owe you anything.

And we're the reason him, other authors and company workers aren't sleeping under a bridge.

It's starts with them, and it's a symbiotic relationship, so you aren't owed something from them. You've both benefitted. Were you not the beneficiary of hours of entertainment? This sort of entitlement is one of the reasons I don't think artists should listen to fans.

[precita]

All fans want is Super Saiyan 5-10 and Goku and Vegeta to fight Broly-type villains until the end of time.

[sintzu]

Toriyama already ruined dragon after he started catering more to infants and pre schooled kids instead of to actual fans.

Toriyama and Toei have made it very clear that they're in this for the $$$ and the $$$ only which is why they're putting in the bare minimum effort into Super.

Artistic quality ? that died alongside the manga in 1995 and the #1 and only focus right now is selling toys and cards.

[ABED]

I would argue the quality was down well before then.

If all Toei cares about is money and they are making it, that means people are either enjoying it or watching it out of habit. Clearly many feel they are getting their money's worth or it's worth their time and fan opinion isn't worth much.

[ryou766]

The right kind of feedback from creative fans would get the show somewhere. No, I'm not talking about the ones who come up with, "hurr durr they should add Super Saiyan [insert absurd number for a stage here]." Hell, this whole Goku Black concept looks as though it was suggested by a fan, anyways.

[sintzu]

This sort of entitlement is one of the reasons I don't think artists should listen to fans.

It's not entitlement, it's common sense.

Fans are the reason why franchises' like DB are as big as they are so at the very least the people working on them should try to respect us and take out requests and criticisms into account.

Look at Dimps and XV2, everything they've said revolves around them listening to the fans and wanting to work with them to make their game better so if they can do that, why can't Toei and Toriyama ?

If all Toei cares about is money and they are making it, that means people are either enjoying it or watching it out of habit.

Clearly many feel they are getting their money's worth or it's worth their time and fan opinion isn't worth much.

Toei are making $$$ through toys and cards, not the show itself.

It's worth our time because it's not so bad that it's not worth watching for free.

[Grimlock]

Look at Dimps and XV2, everything they've said revolves around them listening to the fans and wanting to work with them to make their game better so if they can do that, why can't Toei and Toriyama ?

Because we can get Movie 15, and in Toei's case, three Broly movies. Dimps is trying to improve the flaws of the previous game, they want to please as many people they can get. Therefore in their case, listening to the fans is a good thing. As I said earlier, fan-service can be good, but they need to know how they deal with it.

[sintzu]

The right kind of feedback from creative fans would get the show somewhere. No, I'm not talking about the ones who come up with, "hurr durr they should add Super Saiyan [insert absurd number for a stage here]".

Hell, this whole Goku Black concept looks as though it was suggested by a fan, anyways.

That's what some video game companies do, they'll bring in fans who understand the franchise and ask them for feedback and how to improve the game.

Toriyama said the arc was suggested to him by the wise minds over at Toei.