Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[TheMikado]

I don't believe so, I think Goku was just holding back just enough to give Future Trunks the chance to show off and to show Trunks was was beyond Super Saiyan 3, while Copy-Vegeta gave no crap and beat Gotenks up.

If that's the case and Goku really wants to show off then he could/should have beat Trunks in base.

[Bullza]

And there wouldn't be anything wrong with that because who knows what he could have achieved with Kaioshin. Maybe they unlocked his power like they did with Gohan or greater. There's the question of why he'd use Super Saiyan if that was the case but then supposedly they still can as was seen in the Battle of Gods movie.

There was no Kaioshin training, he just got a tip. https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/746867317401747456

[spoiler][/spoiler]

What does that even mean? How could he win based off of some instructions? I dunno then, I guess at most there could be 8 or so years between Trunks fighting Dabura to him fighting Black for him to get stronger which you'd think wouldn't be enough for him to improve that much with just ordinary training.

Now this does look like the two base theory is a thing. If it actually is it's some of the worst writing I've ever known that something like this could be a thing and yet it was never once elaborated and they just randomly use it or don't. I don't think it actually is at all but I ain't gotta clue.

Unless Goku used those forms just as a showcase for Trunks and he was holding back I don't know else it could be explained. It's possible, Goku didn't struggle at all and like I said he's using SSJ against Black despite being told he was at least as strong as SSJ3.

[TheMikado]

^ thank you Yes this is POOR WRITING!!

[HeroR]

I don't believe so, I think Goku was just holding back just enough to give Future Trunks the chance to show off and to show Trunks was was beyond Super Saiyan 3, while Copy-Vegeta gave no crap and beat Gotenks up.

If that's the case and Goku really wants to show off then he could/should have beat Trunks in base.

He wasn't trying to show off his power. He was showing off his transformations and showing Trunks what was beyond Super Saiyan 2 and given Trunks a fighting chance. It wasn't about showing how ultra powerful his base form has become.

[TheMikado]

What are you talking about and what makes you think Future Trunks is god level? This makes about as much sense that everyone thought Black was weak because he didn't kill Trunks in one hit. Goku obviously wasn't going all out and was letting Trunks test himself.

I don't think Trunks is God tier, I believe the two base theory is the only way to explain everything, but it's also NOT in any media at all. I just realized the manga made the two bases nonexistent because SSG transformation actual takes the place of where I would expect the God base to be in the transformation hierarchy.

[TheMikado]

I don't believe so, I think Goku was just holding back just enough to give Future Trunks the chance to show off and to show Trunks was was beyond Super Saiyan 3, while Copy-Vegeta gave no crap and beat Gotenks up.

If that's the case and Goku really wants to show off then he could/should have beat Trunks in base.

He wasn't trying to show off his power. He was showing off his transformations and showing Trunks what was beyond Super Saiyan 2 and given Trunks a fighting chance. It wasn't about showing how ultra powerful his base form has become.

According to ROF Goku power levels, Trunks should of even had a fighting chance at all with SSJ2 against even base Goku which was my point to begin with.

[dbzfan7]

What does that even mean? How could he win based off of some instructions? I dunno then, I guess at most there could be 8 or so years between Trunks fighting Dabura to him fighting Black for him to get stronger which you'd think wouldn't be enough for him to improve that much with just ordinary training.

Now this does look like the two base theory is a thing. If it actually is it's some of the worst writing I've ever known that something like this could be a thing and yet it was never once elaborated and they just randomly use it or don't. I don't think it actually is at all but I ain't gotta clue.

Unless Goku used those forms just as a showcase for Trunks and he was holding back I don't know else it could be explained. It's possible, Goku didn't struggle at all and like I said he's using SSJ against Black despite being told he was at least as strong as SSJ3.

Well we know he's better than Future Gohan at training. He at least got SSJ2. Though Future Gohan's only prior experience of training was with Piccolo for one year, and that was it.

I don't really believe in the two base theory. I believe it's just shit consistency that isn't thought much about.

[HeroR]

What are you talking about and what makes you think Future Trunks is god level? This makes about as much sense that everyone thought Black was weak because he didn't kill Trunks in one hit. Goku obviously wasn't going all out and was letting Trunks test himself.

I don't think Trunks is God tier, I believe the two base theory is the only way to explain everything, but it's also NOT in any media at all. I just realized the manga made the two bases nonexistent because SSG transformation actual takes the place of where I would expect the God base to be in the transformation hierarchy.

It is not a two base theory. Goku is going was showing off his golden Super Saiyan forms, that is all. Toriyama said that Goku didn't need Super Saiyan 2 and 3 anymore because they were draining and it was more practical for Goku to use his base form and Super Saiyan form. He probably could have broken Trunks in half if he wanted to without transforming, but that wasn't his goal.

[supercat]

Once again, people are making a big deal out of a presumably trivial stunt that was likely meant for nothing more than theatrical purposes.

Goku was likely showcasing the different tiers of SSJ, in hopes of showing Trunks what he too is capable of. Since the latter lacks SSG-based incarnations, he probably figured going SSJ3 was most appropriate.

Nothing about that breathes life into a never-before-mentioned theory nor confirms it in any shape or form in my opinion.

[Bullza]

Oh I did just remember, Super Saiyan Trunks was not stomped that badly by Black when they fought so depending on how strong Black appears to be in the next episode it might just mean that somehow Trunks really did just power up a ton.

If Goku does just use Super Saiyan against Black then it'll be a good way to see exactly how Goku and Trunks compare.

[TheMikado]

What are you talking about and what makes you think Future Trunks is god level? This makes about as much sense that everyone thought Black was weak because he didn't kill Trunks in one hit. Goku obviously wasn't going all out and was letting Trunks test himself.

I don't think Trunks is God tier, I believe the two base theory is the only way to explain everything, but it's also NOT in any media at all. I just realized the manga made the two bases nonexistent because SSG transformation actual takes the place of where I would expect the God base to be in the transformation hierarchy.

It is not a two base theory. Goku is going was showing off his golden Super Saiyan forms, that is all. Toriyama said that Goku didn't need Super Saiyan 2 and 3 anymore because they were draining and it was more practical for Goku to use his base form and Super Saiyan form. He probably could have broken Trunks in half if he wanted to without transforming, but that wasn't his goal.

If he wanted to show off his transformations then why not show the SSB form like Vegeta did Cabba? Like they are sitting there discussing Gokus power level in relation to Black. I would think if you're trying to show off anything it would be that!

[HeroR]

According to ROF Goku power levels, Trunks should of even had a fighting chance at all with SSJ2 against even base Goku which was my point to begin with.

I know I saw the movie and watched the saga. Goku was holding back, just like Black was holding back against Trunks since Black is a strong as Goku holding back who one-shots Trunks, yet Trunks was able deflect Black's attack and take more than one punch. Goku was allowing Trunks to show off and was showing him his golden Super Saiyan forms. It wasn't about Goku beating Trunks into the ground.

[HeroR]

If he wanted to show off his transformations then why not show the SSB form like Vegeta did Cabba? Like they are sitting there discussing Gokus power level in relation to Black. I would think if you're trying to show off anything it would be that!

He said to Trunks, 'oh, you can go Super Saiyan 2, well me too!" and then transformed. He then went Super Saiyan 3 to show the level after that. Cabba didn't even know what the hell a Super Saiyan was until he saw Goku.

[TheMikado]

According to ROF Goku power levels, Trunks should of even had a fighting chance at all with SSJ2 against even base Goku which was my point to begin with.

I know I saw the movie and watched the saga. Goku was holding back, just like Black was holding back against Trunks since Black is a strong as Goku holding back who one-shots Trunks, yet Trunks was able deflect Black's attack and take more than one punch. Goku was allowing Trunks to show off and was showing him his golden Super Saiyan forms. It wasn't about Goku beating Trunks into the ground.

Why in the world are we making the assumption that Black was holding back against Trunks?? He's been straight up murdering his victims and to my knowledge never shown to toy with them? Are we to the point where we are making up things in the narrative to make them make sense?

[TheMikado]

Oh I did just remember, Super Saiyan Trunks was not stomped that badly by Black when they fought so depending on how strong Black appears to be in the next episode it might just mean that somehow Trunks really did just power up a ton.

If Goku does just use Super Saiyan against Black then it'll be a good way to see exactly how Goku and Trunks compare.

But Dabura also wasn't stomped so either Dabura also got God tier or Trunks somehow increased even farther beyond whatever tips he got from the Kaioshin to deal with Buu saga villains.

[HeroR]

Why in the world are we making the assumption that Black was holding back against Trunks?? He's been straight up murdering his victims and to my knowledge never shown to toy with them? Are we to the point where we are making up things in the narrative to make them make sense?

Because Trunks claimed that Black was at least as strong as Super Saiyan 3 Goku, who took him down in one punch. Trunks was able to deflect Black's energy blasts in his base form and take a number of hits from Black after going Super Saiyan. If Black is at least as strong as Super Saiyan 3 Goku, he should have one-shotted Trunks too and Goku wasn't even trying. So, Black was obviously toying with Trunks the entire time.

[dbzfan7]

If Goku does just use Super Saiyan against Black then it'll be a good way to see exactly how Goku and Trunks compare.

I think the NEP had SSJ2 Goku, as well as the episode 50 bio saying Black wasn't taking the fight seriously.

Doesn't really matter to me since either way, it's all Super Logic. Just like GT had GT Logic.

[buutenks]

Clearly trunks is not god level, not even close.

So goku was simply showcasing the ssj forms.

[TheMikado]

Why in the world are we making the assumption that Black was holding back against Trunks?? He's been straight up murdering his victims and to my knowledge never shown to toy with them? Are we to the point where we are making up things in the narrative to make them make sense?

Because Trunks claimed that Black was at least as strong as Super Saiyan 3 Goku, who took him down in one punch. Trunks was able to deflect Black's energy blasts in his base form and take a number of hits from Black after going Super Saiyan. If Black is at least as strong as Super Saiyan 3 Goku, he should have one-shotted Trunks too and Goku wasn't even trying. So, Black was obviously toying with Trunks the entire time.

I guess we will see in the next episode but so far that does not seem consistent with his character and it's more likely the feats are inconsistent with his power level for the sake of creating drama and tension. Especially with SSJ3 Goku one shotting a SSJ Trunks. Like I said we have to make up things not said in the show in order for things to line themselves up.

[Bullza]

But Dabura also wasn't stomped so either Dabura also got God tier or Trunks somehow increased even farther beyond whatever tips he got from the Kaioshin to deal with Buu saga villains.

The latter would be far more likely because the assumption were supposed to make is that he's just as strong as the Dabura we know of. About 9-10 years passed since Trunks defeated the Androids so if Dabura showed up just a few months after the Androids then that's a huge amount of time for him to get drastically stronger.

He must have improved since fighting Dabura because he obtained the SSJ2 form after beating him.

Now that makes me wonder why he didn't use SSJ2 against Black....

think the NEP had SSJ2 Goku, as well as the episode 50 bio saying Black wasn't taking the fight seriously.

Well I've never been able to tell based on hairstyles I just saw that in the preview there weren't any blue sparks like when he did it in this episode and I briefly saw gold sparks.

It'd be helpful if there was some line in there about Goku holding back when he fought Trunks but I won't hold my breath.