Base Cabba stronger than ssj3 Gotenks?

[ryan s]

Base cabba would be around Super vegito

Goku kept all the SSG power (which from many statements would be above Super Vegito by a good margin and then he had multiple power ups so even if we say SSJ2 Vegito at least)
Vegeta was on par or stronger than this Goku
Vegeta had no God ki (at that time, he asks "is this god ki? the prssure is immense" He would know what god ki felt like and that the pressure is immense if he had it)
Vegeta`s base would be around buu saga Super Vgeito
SSJ vegeta would be well beyond SSJ3 vegito (buu saga)
therefore Goku SSG is well beyond Vegito otherwise, he would have been stronger when he reverted To SSJ which is not the case

its quite complex but basically
SSG (SSJ2 Vegito at least) therefore minus 50x (Base Goku) equals Super vegito , therefore base = Super vegito and SSJ is a 50x multiplier so SSJ > Super Saiyan 3 Vegito. therefore SSG had to be well beyond Super Saiyan 3 Vegito otherwise when Goku reverted he would be even stronger

[ssbgoku]

Base cabba would be around Super vegito

Goku kept all the SSG power (which from many statements would be above Super Vegito by a good margin and then he had multiple power ups so even if we say SSJ2 Vegito at least)
Vegeta was on par or stronger than this Goku
Vegeta had no God ki (at that time, he asks "is this god ki? the prssure is immense" He would know what god ki felt like and that the pressure is immense if he had it)
Vegeta`s base would be around buu saga Super Vgeito
SSJ vegeta would be well beyond SSJ3 vegito (buu saga)
therefore Goku SSG is well beyond Vegito otherwise, he would have been stronger when he reverted To SSJ which is not the case

its quite complex but basically
SSG (SSJ2 Vegito at least) therefore minus 50x (Base Goku) equals Super vegito , therefore base = Super vegito and SSJ is a 50x multiplier so SSJ > Super Saiyan 3 Vegito. therefore SSG had to be well beyond Super Saiyan 3 Vegito otherwise when Goku reverted he would be even stronger

Sorry but I can not buy this bullshit. Base Cabba at the most is utlimate gohan level from buu arc.

It was never stated that goku keep ssg power, but even if he idd it was not mentioned in what form.Base vegeta along with goku and post training final form frieeza couldn't be higher then ultimate gohan level, there is just no way.

[ryan s]

yes it is stated multiple times

episode title "Surpass Super saiyan god" should be enough evidence

Episode 14 narrator "Goku surpassed the level of the gods"

Episode 13 Beerus: “You’re out of time, aren’t you? After all, your Super Saiyan God aura has vanished! You’re a bit slow on the uptake.”
Goku: “Huh? When did that happen? But I don’t feel like I’ve gotten weaker at all! What’s going on, Beerus-sama?”
Beerus: “Don’t ask me!”
Goku: “But you’re a god, right?”
Beerus: “Well, it seems that the power of Super Saiyan God didn’t just vanish when time ran out. The power has fully merged with you and become your own. God’s crimson radiance still burns inside you like a flame.”

Episode 15
Context: Vegeta stands out in the middle of nowhere, reflecting on Goku's fight with Beerus. a few months later
Vegeta: "He surpassed it. Super Saiyan God. The level of gods."
Significance: Both Vegeta and the narrator mention that Goku has "surpassed the level of (the) god(s)" (神の域を超えた/kami no iki wo koeta; literally "surpassed the realm of the gods"). This is a twist on the stock Japanese phrase 神の域に達している/kami no iki ni tasshiteiru, literally meaning to reach the realm of the gods, but used to indicate when someone has reached an extremely high level of skill, in anything from martial arts to driving skill. In most cases the phrase is used metaphorically, but in this case Goku has just become a literal god, so it's more apt than usual. The interesting thing of course is that rather than talk about Goku simply "reaching" a godly level (as in the standard phrase), Vegeta and the narrator instead talk about Goku "surpassing". Most likely this is reference to how Goku absorbed the Super Saiyan God form into himself. Interestingly, in Dragon Ball Heroes, this SSG-Absorbed base form was referred to as "Saiyan Who Has Surpassed God" (神を超えたサイヤ人).

episode 16 a few months later i will surpass Goku with my own power, i will surpass the level of the Gods (Context: after Goten is amazed that Goku is now “second in the universe” next after Beerus, Goku tells Vegeta he’ll be the next to become SSG Vegeta: “If it’s only going to get me to second place, then I don’t need that power! Just wait and see, I’ll get stronger relying solely on my own power! I’ll surpass Super Saiyan God, Beerus, and you!”)

-50x SSG would still make base Goku super vegito level x50 makes him more than that so you are wrong

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Sorry but I can not buy this bullshit. Base Cabba at the most is utlimate gohan level from buu arc.

It was never stated that goku keep ssg power, but even if he idd it was not mentioned in what form.Base vegeta along with goku and post training final form frieeza couldn't be higher then ultimate gohan level, there is just no way.

Why couldn't they be? Since when was Ultimate Gohan an unattainable level?

[ssbgoku]

Sorry but I can not buy this bullshit. Base Cabba at the most is utlimate gohan level from buu arc.

It was never stated that goku keep ssg power, but even if he idd it was not mentioned in what form.Base vegeta along with goku and post training final form frieeza couldn't be higher then ultimate gohan level, there is just no way.

Why couldn't they be? Since when was Ultimate Gohan an unattainable level?

Because Cabba was never stated to train hard, even if we assume that through these missions to clear world from evil he has some hard situations which gave him boost/push it was still nowhere enough to push him to ss. Gohan being half of Saiyan is only one who reached as far and even he needed Elder Kaioshin's help to reach new level. Neither goku or vegeta supressed him at his best until ritual or through training with whis.

yes it is stated multiple times

episode title "Surpass Super saiyan god" should be enough evidence

Episode 14 narrator "Goku surpassed the level of the gods"

Episode 13 Beerus: “You’re out of time, aren’t you? After all, your Super Saiyan God aura has vanished! You’re a bit slow on the uptake.”
Goku: “Huh? When did that happen? But I don’t feel like I’ve gotten weaker at all! What’s going on, Beerus-sama?”
Beerus: “Don’t ask me!”
Goku: “But you’re a god, right?”
Beerus: “Well, it seems that the power of Super Saiyan God didn’t just vanish when time ran out. The power has fully merged with you and become your own. God’s crimson radiance still burns inside you like a flame.”

Episode 15
Context: Vegeta stands out in the middle of nowhere, reflecting on Goku's fight with Beerus. a few months later
Vegeta: "He surpassed it. Super Saiyan God. The level of gods."
Significance: Both Vegeta and the narrator mention that Goku has "surpassed the level of (the) god(s)" (神の域を超えた/kami no iki wo koeta; literally "surpassed the realm of the gods"). This is a twist on the stock Japanese phrase 神の域に達している/kami no iki ni tasshiteiru, literally meaning to reach the realm of the gods, but used to indicate when someone has reached an extremely high level of skill, in anything from martial arts to driving skill. In most cases the phrase is used metaphorically, but in this case Goku has just become a literal god, so it's more apt than usual. The interesting thing of course is that rather than talk about Goku simply "reaching" a godly level (as in the standard phrase), Vegeta and the narrator instead talk about Goku "surpassing". Most likely this is reference to how Goku absorbed the Super Saiyan God form into himself. Interestingly, in Dragon Ball Heroes, this SSG-Absorbed base form was referred to as "Saiyan Who Has Surpassed God" (神を超えたサイヤ人).

episode 16 a few months later i will surpass Goku with my own power, i will surpass the level of the Gods (Context: after Goten is amazed that Goku is now “second in the universe” next after Beerus, Goku tells Vegeta he’ll be the next to become SSG Vegeta: “If it’s only going to get me to second place, then I don’t need that power! Just wait and see, I’ll get stronger relying solely on my own power! I’ll surpass Super Saiyan God, Beerus, and you!”)

-50x SSG would still make base Goku super vegito level x50 makes him more than that so you are wrong

You know that copy paste stuff is just annoying and does't work as absolute fact ? Anyway let's see:

1) Suprass super Saiyan god is vauge's statement, why ?, Because it was eariler noted that ssg has time limit and also there was never stated steady level of ssg for everyone ?, keeping in mind that original ssg was weaker then goku, it can be interpreted in too many ways, so no. Why I am choose other way then yours ?, just because both manga and anime has shown neither goku or vegeta having power of ssg as base. Also note bold part, Beerus specifically noted and pointed out about crimson fire burning inside him, yet we had never more indiciation of this crimson fire still burning inside him, which could mean that ss and base form against beerus were just temporary due to being boosted by this crimson fire of ssg.

2) Dragon Ball Heroes is just game and although great is not 100% accurate in everything it does. Why ? Because both managa and anime have shown that base goku/vegeta are nowhere close to ssg as beerus treat them with laugh while ssg pushed him a lot, try to counter this mr. smartass.

3) Just hype. Later on oracle fish note that goku and vegeta transforming would make them much more powerfull and if they were already ssg level in base then they could one shot beerus as ss and we know this is false. Also Whis use castle and tree example to show how far goku or vegeta is in compare to beerus. MOreover Beerus notes how much they improved but goku still points out neither he or vegeta has chance against him

Lastly, rage vegeta was only noted to push beerus to use 10% against him and yet Roshi only note him to suprass goku(ss3 at the same time). Also same with goku, who eariler mentioned fusion wouldn't be enough to beat beerus after arriving on scene and witnessing rage vegeta he only congratulates him for suprassing him(not even mention of majin buu form like gohan/gotenks absorbed). Also Combined ki goku was above rage vegeta and only his power was called as the strongest power in universe, so:

10% beerus > combined ki goku ~bog ss vegetto > buu arc ss vegetto >rage vegeta > ss3 goku

ss2 vegetto > 10% beerus

[ryan s]

[/quote] you provided no evidence, so your statements are made worthless

[Anime Kitten]

All right. I didn't want to join this conversation, but it looks like I have to.

Because Cabba was never stated to train hard, even if we assume that through these missions to clear world from evil he has some hard situations which gave him boost/push it was still nowhere enough to push him to ss. Gohan being half of Saiyan is only one who reached as far and even he needed Elder Kaioshin's help to reach new level. Neither goku or vegeta supressed him at his best until ritual or through training with whis.

Ultimate Gohan is not a god, so, Super logic, Goku and Vegeta are stronger.

Personally, I think we can't know if Cabba's stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks, because no one said Vegeta was using his full power against Cabba. I'd say they're more or less about equal.

[ssbgoku]

All right. I didn't want to join this conversation, but it looks like I have to.

Because Cabba was never stated to train hard, even if we assume that through these missions to clear world from evil he has some hard situations which gave him boost/push it was still nowhere enough to push him to ss. Gohan being half of Saiyan is only one who reached as far and even he needed Elder Kaioshin's help to reach new level. Neither goku or vegeta supressed him at his best until ritual or through training with whis.

Ultimate Gohan is not a god, so, Super logic, Goku and Vegeta are stronger.

Personally, I think we can't know if Cabba's stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks, because no one said Vegeta was using his full power against Cabba. I'd say they're more or less about equal.

Of course he is not and neither is goku or vegeta in base form as their;s ki can be sensable.

All I say is that all manga and anime points out to vegeta and goku being around ultimate gohan's level in base at this point and I mean from buu arc, because even in bog ultimate gohan was weakened to below or on par with ss3 gotenks.

see my big response above^^

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Because Cabba was never stated to train hard, even if we assume that through these missions to clear world from evil he has some hard situations which gave him boost/push it was still nowhere enough to push him to ss. Gohan being half of Saiyan is only one who reached as far and even he needed Elder Kaioshin's help to reach new level. Neither goku or vegeta supressed him at his best until ritual or through training with whis.

None of us know what Cabba's potential is as a U6 Saiyan. For all we know, his potential is a lot greater than Gohan's.

Ultimate Gohan was the best in the Boo saga, but that time is over. Goten and Vegeta said Goku was the strongest in the beginning of BoG. This is well before we're told Gohan got weaker.

[ssbgoku]

Because Cabba was never stated to train hard, even if we assume that through these missions to clear world from evil he has some hard situations which gave him boost/push it was still nowhere enough to push him to ss. Gohan being half of Saiyan is only one who reached as far and even he needed Elder Kaioshin's help to reach new level. Neither goku or vegeta supressed him at his best until ritual or through training with whis.

None of us know what Cabba's potential is as a U6 Saiyan. For all we know, his potential is a lot greater than Gohan's.

Ultimate Gohan was the best in the Boo saga, but that time is over. Goten and Vegeta said Goku was the strongest in the beginning of BoG. This is well before we're told Gohan got weaker.

Quite true, but not as whole ;p. It was implied and hinted that both gohan and gotenks got weaker since time of peace came in oppposite to goku and vegeta who still pushed themselves finally suprassing them. Also about cabba's potential even then it is hard to believe as vegeta didn't mention it while he was the one appreciating gohan's great potential.

buu arc gohan > bog arc gohan >= buu arc ss3 gotenks > bog arc ss3 gotenks

We only know that goku was the strongest in bog , so bog ss3 goku > bog arc gohan. The question is if gohan was supressed at his best he ever was.
No all stuff need to be spoken/stated sometimes being implied or hinted is enough in eyes of mangaka as Akira.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Didn't Vegeta comment on Gohan's potential before he knew anything about Cabba? The fact that he tells him to continue to train and possibly reach Super Saiyan Blue tells us he believes Cabba could eventually reach the form. Vegeta said Cabba was equal to him in Base after mentioning he went hold-back, so we know he can't be weak.

[Anime Kitten]

Vegeta said Cabba was equal to him in Base after mentioning he went hold-back, so we know he can't be weak.

But is it his normal or god base?

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

I don't subscribe to the two Base theory. To me, Base Vegeta is Base Vegeta.

[Anime Kitten]

I don't subscribe to the two Base theory. To me, Base Vegeta is Base Vegeta.

I don't either, only that Goku and Vegeta can turn on and off their god ki. That's what I was referring to.

[ryan s]

I don't subscribe to the two Base theory. To me, Base Vegeta is Base Vegeta.

I don't either, only that Goku and Vegeta can turn on and off their god ki. That's what I was referring to.

he only has God ki when he transforms

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

I don't subscribe to the two Base theory. To me, Base Vegeta is Base Vegeta.

I don't either, only that Goku and Vegeta can turn on and off their god ki. That's what I was referring to.

I don't think they can switch their God Chi in that way. I believe they only utilize it when becoming Super Saiyan Blue.

[Anime Kitten]

Well, that's just my opinion-theory thing.

[ryan s]

Well, that's just my opinion-theory thing.

that theory literally exists to downplay super and is not consistent with dragon ball ie Goku never used ssj power in base form but i could argue he did here and there

[Anime Kitten]

Don't forget he absorbed SSJ God's power, therefore making him a god. That's why I think him and Vegeta can turn their god ki on and off in their base form.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

They can still be sensed in Base when powered-up, though. That goes against the idea of them using God Chi in Base.