Is Dragon Ball the Star Wars of anime?

[ShadowBardock89]

Also, One Piece HAS surpassed Dragon Ball, even Toriyama admits this.

When did he say that?

I was trying to find the interview when One Piece Volume 43 came out, but I can't seem to find it.

[Luso Saiyan]

Hey, it's not our fault we're right, and the creators don't know when to quit!

In slightly more seriousness, though, I did at least respect Lucas for ending it after six. Even though the prequels were terrible, and The Force Awakens was much better, I still kinda wish they'd just left it alone.

Personally, I completely disagree on your opinion about the prequels and The Force Awakens, but either way, I don't see what's so disrespectful about finishing the story he wanted to tell. Where's the benefit of having just the last three chapters of a story? If we like it, great. If not, we are still free to ignore it. Our personal preference shouldn't stop an artist from creating whatever he wants.

Now the damn thing's never going to end unless it stops making money.

Fortunately we can still vote with our wallets.

No, my main problems with George Lucas are that he's a liar and a hypocrite. At least Toriyama is quite candid about the fact that he just makes this crap up on the fly, and there's no grand plan. Lucas is not able to admit that, even though it would make him look all the more impressive if he did.

He never said there was a grand plan, he didn't even know he would be able to make a movie let alone it be successful and do more. That's why his original story was changed and adapted. It has been made public from the beginning (through the various drafts, what had to be done and changed, etc). The fact that there was a story that was cut, adapted and partially rewritten is not a lie. He never said that the way the movies turned out to be was 100% planned and accurately portray what he imagined. But then again, I'll never understand why people expect him to tell the full detailed story with every minutae on 2-minute generic interviews (which is the source of most of his quotes on this issue).

And it baffles me how someone can speak out so openly about film preservation and then do the stuff he does to his own films.

You're probably talking about his speech to Congress, whose content and context are conveniently ommited by some people in order to make a cheap attempt at criticism. It's sad that people need to use a fallacy in order to pretend that the man is contradicting himself. His full speech to Congress, and what's he's taking issue with, is artistic integrity being tampered by studios. In that specific case, studios were going to colorize black and white movies without the artist's consent (most of them were already dead). Lucas, as an artist who values his art and independence, made a speech against that (and rightfully so).

To imply that this is somehow against his own right as an artist to make changes to movies he created and financed himself is ludicrious.

No, the difference between Toriyama and Lucas is that Lucas has to shove down our throats that he knows best.

It's not about knowing best. It's about him, as the creator of his own art, caring about his work and what he wants out there for people to see. And that's, understandably, his preferred version.

He won't allow you to indulge in any other opinion or watch his movies in any other way than his true vision... or, rather, this year's true vision.

Why should he release something he's not confortable with and that doesn't reflect his vision? Because people want it? It's not about money. It's not about public reception and approval. It's about art and artistic integrity. We are free to have our opinion, but he shouldn't expect him to oblige or indulge them. We are just spectators, he doesn't owe us anything.

Toriyama may have changed the ending for the Kanzenban, which I don't agree with, but at least it's not wiped from existence, even if it may or may not be wiped from ye olde official continuity.

Toriyama has no control over that. And even if he did, perhaps he wouldn't care as much about what's out there. And that's fine, doesn't make any of them right or wrong.

[coola]

Personally, Lucas/Disney can butcher OT as much as they wish, but why can't they release original unaltered versions? Maybe with Disney it finally gonna happen? I heard some rumors, and Disney loves milking their franchises

[ShadowBardock89]

Personally, Lucas/Disney can butcher OT as much as they wish, but why can't they release original unaltered versions? Maybe with Disney it finally gonna happen? I heard some rumors, and Disney loves milking their franchises

Lucasfilm did release the original theatrical versions on DVD awhile back ago.

[Gaffer Tape]

In slightly more seriousness, though, I did at least respect Lucas for ending it after six. Even though the prequels were terrible, and The Force Awakens was much better, I still kinda wish they'd just left it alone.

Personally, I completely disagree on your opinion about the prequels and The Force Awakens, but either way, I don't see what's so disrespectful about finishing the story he wanted to tell. Where's the benefit of having just the last three chapters of a story? If we like it, great. If not, we are still free to ignore it. Our personal preference shouldn't stop an artist from creating whatever he wants.

I'm not going to address the rest of your responses because we're clearly not going to agree on them, and, well, this is not a Star Wars board. However, since you seemed to interpret the opposite of what I said here, I'm going to help clarify it for you. Granted, I do want to grumble at that "last three chapters of a story" quip since the Star Wars Trilogy IS the story, and the prequels are just a backstory he came up with in 1978 and are totally unnecessary to enjoy that trilogy, and people saw plenty of benefit to it for sixteen years. And, no, the Star Wars Trilogy is not the last three chapters of the story. They're the FIRST THREE stories! It's like asking what's the point of having the first five years of Dragon Ball without the Bardock Special. But anyway, I'm getting off point.

I never said I wished Lucas HADN'T made the prequels. I never said that I wished Lucas hadn't finished telling the story he wanted to tell. I said the EXACT OPPOSITE of that. I said I respected Lucas for making six movies and then saying, "Okay, I'm done with Star Wars now. I've told my story. I'm not just going to keep making movies because of fan demand." I highly respect someone who can just stop. I mean, sure, the empire continued on without him with various projects. And, hell, there was another theatrical release three years after Sith, so I guess it's not that miraculous. But I hate when things get all franchised out and just continue because they're profitable. Or that an author has found a good conclusion point for his or her story but ends up coming back and cranking out more anyway. And despite all the things that Lucas has flip-flopped on over the years (remember when Star Wars was supposed to have been twelve movies? And then nine?), I truly respected him for saying that.

When I said "I kinda wish they'd left it alone" I wasn't talking about Lucas. I was talking about DISNEY! That despite the fact I thought their efforts were much better than Lucas's, it saddens me to think it's going to be another never-ending franchise, with movies coming out every few years indefinitely. I much preferred Lucas's approach.

[SaiyanGod117]

I find it insulting for DragonBall being compared to SW

At least comparing it to GodFather would somewhat do justice

Reason being I watched the super-hyped Force Awakens & the film sucked ass. Piss poor direction, atrocious pacing, horrible character utilization, lack of likable/relatable leads & terrible screenplay. Yet, was glorified as hell by Rotten Tomato, IMDB, Hollywood Reporter every goddamn site.

As a non-fan, I simply felt FA was low-tier B-grade flick at best. And to think DB, a show that transcends age, time, generations & legions of fans across the globe (and its not even REAL for gods sake) being compared to a detestable film/franchise.

You do realize your opinion is in the extreme minority and does not reflect the reality of the situation?

Anyway, I'd like to point the anime franchise that has been compared to Star Wars is Gundam.
In terms of popularity, I'd say the equivalent is One Piece based on this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_b ... ling_manga

I'm sorry but just because One Piece has more manga sales than Dragon ball doesn't mean it's more popular.
P.S. Most of the sales came from Japan

[FortuneSSJ]

Uhh... Two things: the original Naruto manga is done (anime is still going, unfortunately), but the story is continuing in Boruto (Ukyō Kodachi is wrting it and the art will be done by Mikio Ikemoto, though Masashi Kishimoto will be supervising). Also, One Piece HAS surpassed Dragon Ball, even Toriyama admits this.

Dragon Ball is on another level. Hard to explain but it has his own charm that will always bring new people to watch it. The unique characters, transformations and battles are its biggest draw. The plot being simple works in his favor too, because it's approachable to anyone that wants to take a good time. Simple but entertaining.

That charm is something that Naruto and One Piece don't have, no matter how hard they try. I watched both of them and like them, but I doubt they will survive as long as DB did.
Dragon Ball world atmosphere is something else.

Some people may hate it or not, but Toriyama is indeed a genius on his own way. He knows how to keep people entertaining, no matter how questionable some of his decisions may be.
His artstyle is also iconic, unlike all the others.

A lot of people are not interested in seeing which character has the most dramatic past either.

[ShadowBardock89]

Uhh... Two things: the original Naruto manga is done (anime is still going, unfortunately), but the story is continuing in Boruto (Ukyō Kodachi is wrting it and the art will be done by Mikio Ikemoto, though Masashi Kishimoto will be supervising). Also, One Piece HAS surpassed Dragon Ball, even Toriyama admits this.

That charm is something that Naruto and One Piece don't have, no matter how hard they try. I watched both of them and like them, but I doubt they will survive as long as DB did.
Dragon Ball world atmosphere is something else.

About the charm thing, they each have their own charms. Sure, they have homages to DB here and there (not surprising, since Oda and Kishimoto are fans of the franchise), but they've made their own paths. As for surviving, you obviously have not seen this:
http://oppjapan.com/2014/10/03/the-one- ... the-movie/
Get back to me when DB has its own restaurant.

[Kuririn Fan]

Uhh... Two things: the original Naruto manga is done (anime is still going, unfortunately), but the story is continuing in Boruto (Ukyō Kodachi is wrting it and the art will be done by Mikio Ikemoto, though Masashi Kishimoto will be supervising). Also, One Piece HAS surpassed Dragon Ball, even Toriyama admits this.

That charm is something that Naruto and One Piece don't have, no matter how hard they try. I watched both of them and like them, but I doubt they will survive as long as DB did.
Dragon Ball world atmosphere is something else.

About the charm thing, they each have their own charms. Sure, they have homages to DB here and there (not surprising, since Oda and Kishimoto are fans of the franchise), but they've made their own paths. As for surviving, you obviously have not seen this:
http://oppjapan.com/2014/10/03/the-one- ... the-movie/
Get back to me when DB has its own restaurant.

Get back to me when OP has the international popularity like DB.

[Bansho64]

The thing is, without Dragon Ball there would be no One Piece, Naruto, or Bleach. Many others also. When One Piece can influence writers to make good mangas such as those then I might put it on the same tier as Dragon Ball. Until then, it'll still be below it in my eyes. About the One Piece restaurant, you should see what the people in Latin America do to celebrate Dragon Ball. Hell, someone there auditioned for The Voice singing "Cha La Head Cha La". And they made it through too! Not to mention that One Piece still hasn't been introduced to numerous countries.

[FortuneSSJ]

As for surviving, you obviously have not seen this:
http://oppjapan.com/2014/10/03/the-one- ... the-movie/
Get back to me when DB has its own restaurant.

Weren't we talking about worldwide popularity and influence?
Anyway I didn't know about that restaurant. But I don't care, when Goku is the only one with his own official day. You hardly can do better than that. Now I'm just waiting for a Goku statue.

[sintzu]

The thing is, without Dragon Ball there would be no One Piece, Naruto, or Bleach. Many others also. When One Piece can influence writers to make good mangas such as those then I might put it on the same tier as Dragon Ball. Until then, it'll still be below it in my eyes.

This is a really good point cause as of now, no other manga/anime has had the same influence that DB has had, not only on the anime/manga industry but on pop culture as a whole.

[coola]

From "The Harmony Gold Dub & Broadcast Audio Discussion Thread"

Nobody has purchased the audio tape from Harmony Gold yet. It would likely cost $500 to buy the tape, have it baked, and make the audio accessible. That's what Tommy Yune, the President of Harmony Gold, told me about 3 or 4 years ago. I presume the tape is still sitting in their vault.

If somebody here wants to buy it, then let me know and I can arrange the deal. Or if you want to do a kickstarter or some sort of fundraiser outside of this forum, then that's up to you. I'll help however I can.

But to reiterate, there is no way to know what's on the tape until you buy it. It could be lost episodes, movies, or a bunch of crap. That said, it's the only one in the world, so it could be a fun way to spend some excess cash.

Regarding the broadcast audio, the ball is in Kei's court. He's gathered tapes from fans all over Japan, recorded the audio for the entire series, and placed it on a hard drive for delivery to FUNimation. Toei doesn't want it because in their words, 'they already have Kai.' As a result, Christopher Sabat is excited to receive it, but makes no promises that it will ever be used in an official release.

Unfortunately, Kei hasn't communicated with me in over two months. I have his email and his twitter, but he doesn't respond. If anybody knows how to reach him, please do. All that's left is to send it to Sabat.

Toei is more like George Lucas, they won't give us best possible release for DB/DBZ/DBGT, because they already have their Special/Director Edition

[ABED]

When I said "I kinda wish they'd left it alone" I wasn't talking about Lucas. I was talking about DISNEY! That despite the fact I thought their efforts were much better than Lucas's, it saddens me to think it's going to be another never-ending franchise, with movies coming out every few years indefinitely. I much preferred Lucas's approach.

Why? Is it because it's some platonic ideal?

Why should he release something he's not confortable with and that doesn't reflect his vision? Because people want it? It's not about money. It's not about public reception and approval. It's about art and artistic integrity. We are free to have our opinion, but he shouldn't expect him to oblige or indulge them. We are just spectators, he doesn't owe us anything.

I agree that he doesn't owe us anything, but I wish he would respect his own work and wouldn't continue to pull on that string. The films are done, leave them alone. Putting modern VFX in a movie made before CGI. He needed to stop gilding the lily.

[WittyUsername]

I hadn't really thought of that comparison before, but I think you may have a point. Like the Star Wars franchise, Dragon Ball does have a pretty expansive and diverse mythology that has lead to some prequel stories (and like the Star Wars prequels, Minus was also pretty controversial), and both franchises are still going on to this day, despite already having "ended" decades ago.

[WittyUsername]

When I said "I kinda wish they'd left it alone" I wasn't talking about Lucas. I was talking about DISNEY! That despite the fact I thought their efforts were much better than Lucas's, it saddens me to think it's going to be another never-ending franchise, with movies coming out every few years indefinitely. I much preferred Lucas's approach.

Why? Is it because it's some platonic ideal?

I can't speak for the other poster, but for me personally, I don't like the idea of Star Wars being a never ending film franchise because it'll inevitably start to run dry. The thing about Star Wars movies was that they were an event. Getting to see a new Star Wars film was initially this rare occurrence that would need to be seen on the big screen. With the way Disney is handling it however, getting to see a new Star Wars film will start to feel less like an event, and more like a yearly obligation for fans. Like Dragon Ball, Star Wars ended long ago, and dragging it out until it stops making money just feels like a classic example of Hollywood cynicism. I'm fine with getting a sequel trilogy of films for the franchise, but do we really need to see a movie about a young Han Solo, or about the rebels stealing the plans to the Death Star?

[ABED]

And the prequels ran dry, whereas the never ending Bond franchise keeps getting new life breathed into it every so often. Why do people care about "the event" more than the story? As long as the story is good, that's what matters.

Getting to see a new Star Wars film was initially this rare occurrence that would need to be seen on the big screen

Except that a lot of us were first introduced to it on home video, and if someone feels obligated to see every single movie, that's on them.

Like Dragon Ball, Star Wars ended long ago, and dragging it out until it stops making money just feels like a classic example of Hollywood cynicism. I'm fine with getting a sequel trilogy of films for the franchise, but do we really need to see a movie about a young Han Solo, or about the rebels stealing the plans to the Death Star?

I don't see how that's cynical and no we don't need to see either movie, but if they are good, that's money well spent.

[WittyUsername]

And the prequels ran dry. Why do people care about "the event" more than the story? As long as the story is good, that's what matters.

Getting to see a new Star Wars film was initially this rare occurrence that would need to be seen on the big screen

Except that a lot of us were first introduced to it on home video, and if someone feels obligated to see every single movie, that's on them.

Like Dragon Ball, Star Wars ended long ago, and dragging it out until it stops making money just feels like a classic example of Hollywood cynicism. I'm fine with getting a sequel trilogy of films for the franchise, but do we really need to see a movie about a young Han Solo, or about the rebels stealing the plans to the Death Star?

I don't see how that's cynical and no we don't need to see either movie, but if they are good, that's money well spent.

Aside from how much people hated the prequels, those movies at least had a beginning, middle, and end. The same can't really be said for Disney's plans for the franchise. A lot of people simply don't like it because they don't appreciate seeing something they love getting run into the ground.

On another note, if Disney wants to give us a bunch of spin-off films in the Star Wars universe, wouldn't it make more sense for them to wait until after the current trilogy of films are finished? Why are they in such a hurry with these movies? I know they want to make money, but Star Wars isn't going anywhere, so why not just do things one step at a time?

[ABED]

But not a good beginning, middle, and end. No, we don't like seeing things run into the ground, but like with Bond, there's always the chance things can get better if you find the right talent. Creatively, Lucas did run the series into the ground. Those movies were awful, but I look forward to what Rian Johnson will do and what Phil Lord and Chris Miller will do.

Is 1 film a year that big of an investment for audiences?

With Dragon Ball, I'm torn. I enjoyed Battle of Gods, didn't care for Resurrection F, but given how strong Goku is, I don't think there's much story to tell.

[WittyUsername]

As bad as the prequels may have been, there's no guarantee that all of these spin-off films that Disney is making will be any good either. Besides, at least with the prequels, you could tell that George Lucas was very passionate about the story he wanted to tell. I'm not so sure that the same can be said for what Disney is doing with the franchise, and it seems kind of self-defeating to sandwich these spin-off films in between the main trilogy of movies involving Rey and Finn. They should focus on the main story first, then go crazy with the side stories, if that's what they truly want.