So who or what is Black?

[KayDash]

If it wasn't pointed out already: Seems like Elder U10 Kai has the same type of green potara as Black.

[HeroR]

Why was Black Goku able to hang against SSJ2 Goku? Here's what I think:

Black Goku has the ability to embed techniques and power from other fighters. So the strongest fighter Black had faced before fighting SSJ2 Goku was SSJ2 Trunks. And when we saw the fight between SSJ2 Trunks and SSJ2 Goku, Trunks was able to hang against Goku before Goku went SSJ3.

So when Black Goku fought against SSJ2 Goku and took a few hits from Goku, he was able to already start off at SSJ2 Trunks power level and then gain the power that Goku was fighting at. That's why his power increased as noticed by Krillin and said multiple times by Black Goku himself.

That's why it's ironic that while Vegeta claims that Goku doesn't take fights seriously at the start and is therefore a weakness, it actually helps in this situation. If Goku went full on SSB and fought Black Goku and Goku did his typical good hero thing of not killing the enemy, Black Goku would quickly embed and gain the power of SSB Goku which would make him extremely strong.

That's why I also hope Vegeta kills Black Goku. Vegeta will exterminate whatever kind of evil being Black Goku is so that Black Goku won't have the chance to embed the SSB power. Heck even SSJ3 Vegeta would probably be able to defeat Black Goku right now. But can Vegeta even become SSJ3?

Trunks didn't hang with Goku at all. Goku didn't nothing but block Trunks' attacks without taking any damage and caught Trunks' wrists. Even then, we have seen Black dismiss Super Saiyan 2 Trunks when they first met. Trunks was never a challenged to Black while Super Saiyan 2 Goku was an even match.

[KingKaash]

Why was Black Goku able to hang against SSJ2 Goku? Here's what I think:

Black Goku has the ability to embed techniques and power from other fighters. So the strongest fighter Black had faced before fighting SSJ2 Goku was SSJ2 Trunks. And when we saw the fight between SSJ2 Trunks and SSJ2 Goku, Trunks was able to hang against Goku before Goku went SSJ3.

So when Black Goku fought against SSJ2 Goku and took a few hits from Goku, he was able to already start off at SSJ2 Trunks power level and then gain the power that Goku was fighting at. That's why his power increased as noticed by Krillin and said multiple times by Black Goku himself.

That's why it's ironic that while Vegeta claims that Goku doesn't take fights seriously at the start and is therefore a weakness, it actually helps in this situation. If Goku went full on SSB and fought Black Goku and Goku did his typical good hero thing of not killing the enemy, Black Goku would quickly embed and gain the power of SSB Goku which would make him extremely strong.

That's why I also hope Vegeta kills Black Goku. Vegeta will exterminate whatever kind of evil being Black Goku is so that Black Goku won't have the chance to embed the SSB power. Heck even SSJ3 Vegeta would probably be able to defeat Black Goku right now. But can Vegeta even become SSJ3?

Trunks didn't hang with Goku at all. Goku didn't nothing but block Trunks' attacks without taking any damage and caught Trunks' wrists. Even then, we have seen Black dismiss Super Saiyan 2 Trunks when they first met. Trunks was never a challenged to Black while Super Saiyan 2 Goku was an even match.

Turnks wasn't using his sword and going all out against SSJ2 Goku. And the first time we saw Black Goku and Trunks on-screen is clearly not the first time they met. So it's incorrect to assume that he's never been a challenge to Black Goku. I'm sure at the start Trunks stood a chance. But it's plausible to say that Black Goku embeds the strength of another and then builds off of it.

The thing that makes no sense now that I think about it is when Goku used SSJ3 against Trunks and afterwards Trunks said Black Goku could be even stronger than that. If Black Goku never needed a stronger form than his base against SSJ2 Trunks, and SSJ2 Goku and base Black Goku were evenly matched meaning SSJ3 Goku would beat up Black Goku, how can Trunks say he's even stronger?

[HeroR]

Why was Black Goku able to hang against SSJ2 Goku? Here's what I think:

Black Goku has the ability to embed techniques and power from other fighters. So the strongest fighter Black had faced before fighting SSJ2 Goku was SSJ2 Trunks. And when we saw the fight between SSJ2 Trunks and SSJ2 Goku, Trunks was able to hang against Goku before Goku went SSJ3.

So when Black Goku fought against SSJ2 Goku and took a few hits from Goku, he was able to already start off at SSJ2 Trunks power level and then gain the power that Goku was fighting at. That's why his power increased as noticed by Krillin and said multiple times by Black Goku himself.

That's why it's ironic that while Vegeta claims that Goku doesn't take fights seriously at the start and is therefore a weakness, it actually helps in this situation. If Goku went full on SSB and fought Black Goku and Goku did his typical good hero thing of not killing the enemy, Black Goku would quickly embed and gain the power of SSB Goku which would make him extremely strong.

That's why I also hope Vegeta kills Black Goku. Vegeta will exterminate whatever kind of evil being Black Goku is so that Black Goku won't have the chance to embed the SSB power. Heck even SSJ3 Vegeta would probably be able to defeat Black Goku right now. But can Vegeta even become SSJ3?

Trunks didn't hang with Goku at all. Goku didn't nothing but block Trunks' attacks without taking any damage and caught Trunks' wrists. Even then, we have seen Black dismiss Super Saiyan 2 Trunks when they first met. Trunks was never a challenged to Black while Super Saiyan 2 Goku was an even match.

Turnks wasn't using his sword and going all out against SSJ2 Goku. And the first time we saw Black Goku and Trunks on-screen is clearly not the first time they met. So it's incorrect to assume that he's never been a challenge to Black Goku. I'm sure at the start Trunks stood a chance. But it's plausible to say that Black Goku embeds the strength of another and then builds off of it.

The thing that makes no sense now that I think about it is when Goku used SSJ3 against Trunks and afterwards Trunks said Black Goku could be even stronger than that. If Black Goku never needed a stronger form than his base against SSJ2 Trunks, and SSJ2 Goku and base Black Goku were evenly matched meaning SSJ3 Goku would beat up Black Goku, how can Trunks say he's even stronger?

Even if he used his sword, it would make a different since Goku's fingers are stronger. Goku still just stood there and block while Trunks punch him. He didn't even make Goku flinch.

Also, it was clear the first time they met since when Black saw Trunks he said 'a Saiyan?' and Trunks demanded to know why Black was destroying the world. And both Black and Goku were holding back the entire fight. Neither one went all out.

[emperior]

My theory is that in the future, Zamasu decided to annihilate all mortals for some reason and he eventually met Goku in the afterlife. They battled and Goku was winning but Zamasu was able to steal his body in some way: that's why he tells Present Goku that "He never fought him in this body", I think he meant that he never fought Goku while using Goku's body.

Black likewise says this is an “honor”: he’d wanted to trying fighting Goku in “this body”.

And it looks like Zamasu needed/wanted to do it in order to absorb Goku's fighting style, which obviously suits his new body better. He probably killed Goku once he got his body.

I can't see it working differently, really. It's also very possible the earring is what Zamasu uses to change bodies. It also looks like Future Goku's body is still suffering from the heart disease. Please let me know what you think about this theory.

And about Black knowing Vegeta, it's possible that in the future Vegeta didn't go to hell because he fought and died to protect the Earth. Remember how afterlife works in DB? Vegeta was destined to go to hell and be a bad guy until he fought Kid Buu and was deemed "good" and thus resurrected.

[HeroR]

My theory is that in the future, Zamasu decided to annihilate all mortals for some reason and he eventually met Goku in the afterlife. They battled and Goku was winning but Zamasu was able to steal his body in some way: that's why he tells Present Goku that "He never fought him in this body", I think he meant that he never fought Goku while using Goku's body.

Black likewise says this is an “honor”: he’d wanted to trying fighting Goku in “this body”.

And it looks like Zamasu needed/wanted to do it in order to absorb Goku's fighting style, which obviously suits his new body better. He probably killed Goku once he got his body.

I can't see it working differently, really. It's also very possible the earring is what Zamasu uses to change bodies. It also looks like Future Goku's body is still suffering from the heart disease. Please let me know what you think about this theory.

And about Black knowing Vegeta, it's possible that in the future Vegeta didn't go to hell because he fought and died to protect the Earth. Remember how afterlife works in DB? Vegeta was destined to go to hell and be a bad guy until he fought Kid Buu and was deemed "good" and thus resurrected.

Vegeta was going to Hell after he sacrificed his life trying to blow up Fat Buu and it from the goodness of his heart. There is no way Future Vegeta didn't go to Hell because he fought and died against the androids, which was probably an ego thing given how he acted during the Android/Cell Saga. Also, the only reason why Vegeta didn't go to Hell after Kid Buu was killed because he was wished back to life. Apparently the dragons are more forgiven that Yemma.

In your theory doesn't explain why Zamasu chose a dead fighter from U7 instead of a powerful warrior from his universe. And if he stole Goku's dead body from the Otherworld, he would have a halo, unless he revived Goku before stealing his body, which raises more questions. Finally, Black has different color earring from Zamasu. Black's earring are the color of U10's elder Kai, not Zamasu.

[emperior]

Vegeta was going to Hell after he sacrificed his life trying to blow up Fat Buu and it from the goodness of his heart. There is no way Future Vegeta didn't go to Hell because he fought and died against the androids, which was probably an ego thing given how he acted during the Android/Cell Saga. Also, the only reason why Vegeta didn't go to Hell after Kid Buu was killed because he was wished back to life. Apparently the dragons are more forgiven that Yemma.

In your theory doesn't explain why Zamasu chose a dead fighter from U7 instead of a powerful warrior from his universe. And if he stole Goku's dead body from the Otherworld, he would have a halo, unless he revived Goku before stealing his body, which raises more questions. Finally, Black has different color earring from Zamasu. Black's earring are the color of U10's elder Kai, not Zamasu.

You are most probably right about Vegeta, so it's possible Black knows of him because he was the prince of saiyans, because he was mentioned to him or because he shares some of the memories of Goku.
About why Zamasu would choose Goku's body it's a mystery but my theory is that while he was going around mass murdering people he eventually ended up in the afterlife and had a fight with Goku (he hints he has already fought Goku before) and as he was losing badly he managed to steal Goku's body in some way.

[DragonHermit]

A theory on Black:

The earth in Trunks' timeline was supposed to be eliminated by the Androids. Trunks broke "the law" by time travelling. The Beerus in Trunks' timeline wouldn't do anything about Trunks, and the Zamasu in that timeline decided to take matters into his hands.

^I also agree with that theory. I think "Zamasu" attacked Goku in the afterlife and somehow resurrected with him. Let's remember Goku in Trunks' timeline was much weaker than the current Goku. Which explains Black wasn't that strong to begin with but got stronger with time.

[HeroR]

A theory on Black:

The earth in Trunks' timeline was supposed to be eliminated by the Androids. Trunks broke "the law" by time travelling. The Beerus in Trunks' timeline wouldn't do anything about Trunks, and the Zamasu in that timeline decided to take matters into his hands.

^I also agree with that theory. I think "Zamasu" attacked Goku in the afterlife and somehow resurrected with him. Let's remember Goku in Trunks' timeline was much weaker than the current Goku. Which explains Black wasn't that strong to begin with but got stronger with time.

Yeah, he was weaker. So why would Zamasu take Goku's body instead of champion from his own universe. And again, Black didn't know about Trunks' time machine since he was surprised to find Trunks in another timeline.