Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

[kinisking]

I don't think yamamuros character designed as terrible. They're not that much different from what we've seen imo.

[ArchedThunder]

Would it be viable for Toei to alternate between outsourcing some episodes to good animation studios and animating some in house to help relieve Super's tough schedule?

It wouldn't hurt to get some more studios to help, but they already do do a fair amount of outsourcing. The big issue comes from the fact that they are still fighting the lack of preproduction. We don't know what the schedule is like right now, but the example I keep using is that episode 39 was animated in 3 weeks, even though the main supervisor for that episode's last episode was like 6 or 7 week prior, so they need to get everything that's before animation under control to make any real change, and that's what I think they brought Tomioka Atsuhiro in for, to get scripts done faster. It probably doesn't help that they have to wait for Toriyama's outlines to be completed before they can start work on a new arc. It would definitely be in their best interest to let this arc go as long as possible so that they can get things in order for the next arc while also being able to plan ahead for the end of this arc instead of having to cobble it together like any other episode, which again seems like they might have done to some extent for this arc with bringing in Tomioka Atsuhiro. The fact that we don't seem to be seeing Tate in the regular rotation and instead have him seemingly being given more time seems like a good indicator that they are actively working on improving the schedule with this arc, but that's just speculation.

I actually don't think Yamamuro's designs are easy to follow at all. They're so mechanical and stiff that drawing them wrong or stepping too far away from them stands out like a sore thumb. It's harder to make them look aesthetically pleasing when you step away from the precision required to be on-model.

Episode 27 and Hakamada's work on 39 are pretty good examples of this. They're bolder, more angular takes on Yamamuro's work, but I don't think they look particularly nice. They're mixing hard angles with the bubbly shading and rounded noses of Yamamuro's work and the results really don't appeal to me. It's one of the reasons I'd much rather look at episodes that do their own thing -- like Iseki or Tate's work. You can take those styles and play fast and loose with them with pleasing results.

I'd love to see what Koudai Watanabe or Yoshihiko Umakoshi could bring into the mix. I want versatile character designs that animators can have fun with without causing dissonance to the point that people end up in arguments as seen with Tate's work. Animators shouldn't be battling against their model sheets to produce interesting animation.

I guess that's true, small deviations from Yamamuro's models can cause some pretty big weirdness. It does kind of raise the question as to why Yamamuro himself hasn't bothered trying to modify his designs to better suit the production of Super. I guess he just doesn't really care.
If we're to ever get a new character designer or Yamamuro changing his designs my guess would be that it'd come after a time skip.
How often do long running shows end up having their character designer changed? I know Z had it's changed a ways in.

[nite_jay]

I didn't realize that they were already outsourcing so much. I guess the only real way to fix the schedule would be a couple monthes hiatus.

[Sodhi]

I dont want to be barrier of bad news, but I dont see them replacing yamamuro till his death. He is a very big part of dragon ball now who will be/is the CD or AD in almost everything db related nowadays. Heck he was the director of ROF.

[ArchedThunder]

I didn't realize that they were already outsourcing so much. I guess the only real way to fix the schedule would be a couple monthes hiatus.

They can't do that though due to obligations.
Rock, meet hard place.
It would have been nice if they could have given the upcoming 48 episode Monster Hunter anime that will be airing before Super the time slot and then filled the time slot after that show's ending with a sequel to Super, but alas this money train stops for no one.

I dont want to be barrier of bad news, but I dont see them replacing yamamuro till his death. He is a very big part of dragon ball now who will be/is the CD or AD in almost everything db related nowadays. Heck he was the director of ROF.

Trust me, we know.
We can hope though.
He's 56 years old now so I guess it's somewhat possible that he could retire... in the next 20 years.

[nite_jay]

I didn't realize that they were already outsourcing so much. I guess the only real way to fix the schedule would be a couple monthes hiatus.

They can't do that though due to obligations.
Rock, meet hard place.
It would have been nice if they could have given the upcoming 48 episode Monster Hunter anime that will be airing before Super the time slot and then filled the time slot after that show's ending with a sequel to Super, but alas this money train stops for no one.

Those extra 48 weeks could have done wonders for Super.

[Sodhi]

it is what is it guys, we cant really do anything about it. However I do wonder why dont they use bank animation. it would be awesome if someone powered up.

[ArchedThunder]

it is what is it guys, we cant really do anything about it. However I do wonder why dont they use bank animation. it would be awesome if someone powered up.

Some Bank animation would be nice, but I can already see the internet complaints "Why do they keep reusing this animation of Goku transforming? Lazy/Cheap bastards."
Though really I'm not entirely sure how much help Bank animation would be for a show like Super. I'd like to see them reuse some well drawn "talking heads" from episode to episode.

[Sodhi]

I was thinking that they could use bank animation in scenes like repeated punches and kicks or someone's fighting stance. They could also use it whenever someone goes ssb(whenever that happens).

[ArchedThunder]

I was thinking that they could use bank animation in scenes like repeated punches and kicks or someone's fighting stance. They could also use it whenever someone goes ssb(whenever that happens).

I guess they could do some Bank for stuff like Otsuka's repeating punches where it shows only one character, fighting stances could work too I guess. I don't know, it all just feels too situational for a show like Super.
With how much Goku does Kamehameha that could work as Bank I guess. Blast volleys would probably be the best candidate for bank animation.

[Anime Kitten]

Gah, I'm a dummy. What's bank animation?

[ArchedThunder]

Gah, I'm a dummy. What's bank animation?

Animation that is made to be reused. So for instance some shows have transformation sequences that are the same every episode. It works wonders for shows that follow a formula.

[Sodhi]

I guess they could do some Bank for stuff like Otsuka's repeating punches where it shows only one character, fighting stances could work too I guess. I don't know, it all just feels too situational for a show like Super.
With how much Goku does Kamehameha that could work as Bank I guess.

Yea you're right it is very situational, however it would really help in fighting episodes. Little things help big sometimes. Also yea, Kamehameha is a great idea for bank too.

[JulieYBM]

Dragon Ball movies don't have good animation.

They might not be amazing, but to say that they don't have good animation is stretching it a bit, don't you think? They are certainly outclassed by others but they still have plenty of good animation in their own right, well some of them anyways.

They have good animators, just not good animation. The last two movies have featured great animators--the best at Toei Animation and their immediate contacts--and none of them have done work on their usual high-level, save perhaps for Shida and Oonishi Ryou's small bits in Kami to Kami.

[ArchedThunder]

Dragon Ball movies don't have good animation.

They might not be amazing, but to say that they don't have good animation is stretching it a bit, don't you think? They are certainly outclassed by others but they still have plenty of good animation in their own right, well some of them anyways.

They have good animators, just not good animation. The last two movies have featured great animators--the best at Toei Animation and their immediate contacts--and none of them have done work on their usual high-level, save perhaps for Shida and Oonishi Ryou's small bits in Kami to Kami.

I guess it just comes down to what "good animation" is in your opinion. I think the animation is good for the most part, it just doesn't get much better than "good" often in most of the movies.

[Anime Kitten]

I heard (and have seen) that Resurrection 'F' has good animation. Is it true? Is it better or worse than Battle of Gods?

[ArchedThunder]

I heard (and have seen) that Resurrection 'F' has good animation. Is it true? Is it better or worse than Battle of Gods?

I mean it comes down to your tastes. I think it's good for the most part, way too much CG though. I think the main issue is that storyboarding can be kinda meh, mainly during the Goku VS Freeza fight. I know the 1,000 solider fight gets a lot of shit here for the static camera, but I honestly like when a camera is kept static for a bit to show of martial arts, similar to many live action movies.

[Anime Kitten]

Thanks!

So far, which episode of Super had the best animation (in your guys' opinions, of course)?

[ArchedThunder]

Thanks!

So far, which episode of Super had the best animation (in your guys' opinions, of course)?

That's hard for me to say, usually it's just stand out pieces in otherwise average episodes.
I guess I'd have to say episode 14, the art isn't be best but it's pretty much non stop, fluid and dynamic action for the first half of it.
47 was pretty solid all around I guess.

[Anime Kitten]

I guess I'd have to say episode 14, the art isn't be best but it's pretty much non stop, fluid and dynamic action for the first half of it.

Oh, yeah, that episode where Goku's face didn't get burned off.
[spoiler][/spoiler]