ChaosLordBrandon wrote:
Talk about Super is far more postive on youtube and the db section on the narutoforums site.
It always depends with who you are talking to. There's some people that are always bitching about everything in Super, while they glorify DBZ with their nostalgia goggles on.
Trying to have a healthy discussion with them is a lost cause and not worth your time, because they just don't accept anything that isn't bashing Super.
I was really trying not to do this in this thread, but you had to come in here with your baseless post..
The only "nostalgia goggles" being worn are by people like you. In fact Nostalgia goggles are the only things that actually make Super bearable, because if you take away the signature characters nobody would bother watching this half assed show. You might be fine with mediocrity. Others aren't. Deal with it.
And as far as someone mentioning Youtube comments as a reference, please...the Youtube comment section is known to be an immature cesspool. It's where 7 year olds, racists, and trolls gather to call each other gay and tell each other they fucked their mom.
As far as I know Yamumuro was the man behind all those awesome Dragonball Z wallscrolls back in the day. What the hell happened to him?
ChaosLordBrandon wrote:
Talk about Super is far more postive on youtube and the db section on the narutoforums site.
It always depends with who you are talking to. There's some people that are always bitching about everything in Super, while they glorify DBZ with their nostalgia goggles on.
Trying to have a healthy discussion with them is a lost cause and not worth your time, because they just don't accept anything that isn't bashing Super.
I was really trying not to do this in this thread, but you had to come in here with your baseless post..
The only "nostalgia goggles" being worn are by people like you. In fact Nostalgia goggles are the only things that actually make Super bearable, because if you take away the signature characters nobody would bother watching this half assed show. You might be fine with mediocrity. Others aren't. Deal with it.
And as far as someone mentioning Youtube comments as a reference, please...the Youtube comment section is known to be an immature cesspool. It's where 7 year olds, racists, and trolls gather to call each other gay and tell each other they fucked their mom.
As far as I know Yamumuro was the man behind all those awesome Dragonball Z wallscrolls back in the day. What the hell happened to him?
How was his post baseless? You really don't think those people exist?
Jinzoningen MULE wrote: Maybe I should start making it a point not to comment when I'm not sure of something. Too many people know what they're talking about around here.
Disclaimer: I might get into a disagreement with you. Sometimes I might even get feisty about it. I'll never harbor negative feelings because of it though. I hope you feel the same way!
I made a bet with Alee9977 that Vegeta won't be beaten quickly by an opponent. If I lose, I switch my avatar to Vegeta getting beat by hit. If I win, he switches it to Vegeta holding Black by his hair. This will last a month.
Super being mediocre is a fact more than an opinion.
If super has good animators but doesn't have good animation is because they don't have time or they just don't want to do it? Because it is impressive that a movie like Film Z has better animation than BoG or FnF.
The Vegeta copy arc should have made the series schedule better because that's the reason why it was done in the first place. Right now, I don't know where Super's production is, maybe it isn't that bad, because I didn't see any bad animation since episode 40 or 41 maybe?? I don't really remember but considering everything we have saw in this arc so far, it isn't much different from Z's animation.
Fact? Animation wise, maybe. Show wise, no. It's up to the viewer to decide whether they like it or not; that is, whether it's good in their eyes/by their standards.
Animation is mediocre although it is getting better and I like that.
Story is mediocre, I'm talking about the last three arcs, I like the story of this arc but don't have big hopes of how they are going to develop it.
They aren't using the old Z characters anymore, they are here but what we have of them are only memories, they are giving more importance to the newest characters but they could use the gang a little more.
The pace is really fast so you can't get excited/sad/scared/happy/etc when you are supposed to, you can barely understand what's happening.
I really love db and I like dbs but everybody has to admit that it is mediocre, hope I will change my mind in a couple of years but right now, it is mediocre.
saiyanvegetable wrote:
I was really trying not to do this in this thread, but you had to come in here with your baseless post..
The only "nostalgia goggles" being worn are by people like you. In fact Nostalgia goggles are the only things that actually make Super bearable, because if you take away the signature characters nobody would bother watching this half assed show. You might be fine with mediocrity. Others aren't. Deal with it.
And as far as someone mentioning Youtube comments as a reference, please...the Youtube comment section is known to be an immature cesspool. It's where 7 year olds, racists, and trolls gather to call each other gay and tell each other they fucked their mom.
As far as I know Yamumuro was the man behind all those awesome Dragonball Z wallscrolls back in the day. What the hell happened to him?
How was his post baseless? You really don't think those people exist?
Woah tbh I have never seen this thread so heated up in weeks. But anyway the issue is that people have different feelings about the animation in this arc. In my honest opinion it obviously hasn't been great or outstanding at all but it has definitely improved over what we got in the previous arcs. The problem that Super faced or still faces to some extent is the tight schedule and the lack of talented staff who were busy in other projects. But thankfully the series is doing good numbers in Japan. Ep.47 was close to One piece numbers and Toei are actually trying to improvise the series. Takamura Kaoru and Nobuzane Setsuko who were both working on Precure and World Trigger respectively were added to the series during the U6 arc. Yoichi Onishi and Matsuzaka who were previously working on World Trigger were also added from ep.41 onwards. We also saw Kuroyanagi added in episode 49, plus Shida and Ken Otsuka have also confirmed that they are gonna be involved in the series. So the series still has its fair share of problems, but we cannot deny that it has definitely improved from earlier. We are yet to get a completely action packed episode in this arc, but I hope that when we do it turns out to be great. I mean they still pulled it off for 37, 38 and 39 during the U6 arc despite the cut throat schedule, so hopefully it will be even better this time around considering the schedule and staff is at a better place than earlier.
ArchedThunder wrote:What if Otsuka and Shida are working on the same episode?
That would be rad.
neolux wrote:This thread has become pretty negative xD what happened? just relax people I suppose we're here to learn and have fun, or am I wrong? :S
saiyanvegetable jumped in, and then shit hit the fan :/ Seems he's all hot and bothered.
Onto a slightly different topic:
I think Super could benefit with instead of just using freelancers and basic outsourcing, actually Give a whole different studio an entire cour of this show to put it back on track, or do what One-Punch Man did and bring in a director and crew from another studio. I mean TMS and Toei seem pretty cool with each-other, As do Sunrise and Toei, I dont see a particular reason why not other than some mild costs.
The only real backfire i could see happening is a difference in artistic style and composition, which is something that several meetings could sort out.
I also really think more streamlining, and smoothness could be used in Super's designs. I feel one of DB super's biggest issues are the character designs. They feel so mechanical that I have difficulty imagining something with this level of smoothness done with Yamamuro's designs even when I know it exists. Which is weird to say the least. I also noticed while looking at this commercial how even though the art is horribly offmodel, the animation on display is actually beautiful (my espically favorite part about this is the "we're gettin down" animation bit in Freeza's segment - As a dancer, that makes me very happy to see, and I'm not sure why.). I think it may be because the designs were streamlined during the dance sequence. The animators were very liberal with the designs and allowed blacks and diverse line-weight.
I honestly believe that THIS or this would have made a much better character Design for Goku (but tone those hair Highlights Down), even if it's somewhat inconsistent with his end of Kai self.
When I think of Instances Like This (I.E good posing) Goku's wide upper-body looks fine, and heroic but it doesnt translate over well to good animation all the time, especially good fighting animation. This stunts a lot of the choreography.
And why may that be? Simple, actually DBS's artstyle might be TOO wide and detailed. A lot of great action sequences are created when the characters can be broken down to their most basic forms, and blobs and still be recognized. These characters can be slimmed out and not have unnecessary muscle bulk slow their movements, and when it happens it reads as GOOD animation to any watcher, and not a "WTF WHY IS HE SO WEIRD LOOKING" Like it does whenever an animator in Super does it.
Take a look over at Goku for a second:
[spoiler][/spoiler]
Wide Muscular Torso
Short, bulky Arms
Unnaturally High Waist Line thanks to the Wrapping around his waist being so high up making his visual center off.
He's too Big, and for a character who's a fighter, you cannot actually accentuate on his form to get extra mileage out of him with his current designs.
Compare to this
[spoiler][/spoiler]
taller design
Much thinner torso and arms
Longer, thinner neck
centers waist line better.
When You add in the longer Armbands of the anime it helps visually ellongate Goku's arms.
Compare Goku to somebdy like Urameshi Yusuke (they were rival series at the time, so i believe this is fair) Yes I'm aware yusuke is only 14-16, But I'm simply talking about his design principles and conventions which can carry over to any adult
[spoiler][/spoiler]
Yusuke, even when wearing a gi has long arms, not a lot of visible muscle mass, even though he's pretty buff, and has a well defined center. he can look heroic and muscular, or he can look lanky. You may also notice these features are more accentuated when he's not in that School uniform. All his fights and action cuts in the school uniform can tend to look lackluster compared to all his ones outside of it (though the opposite is true of Kuwabara, because he's tall enough for his uniform to form-fit).
The biggest problem with the character design of Super may well be that it's trying to be Dragon Ball Z. The Super Manga cover and Toriyama's drawings have made the characters lankier, which Probably plays better for animation purposes than his old designs. This is Actually noticeable when you look back as well. In Scenes like these, where Goku is wearing Bulma's Saiyan Armor, his form can be simplified, and elongated thanks to the style of armor he's wearing. There's no visual Clutter (like the folds on Goku's baggy as hell Gi) interfering and allows the animators to run wild with the drawing of the character.
[spoiler][/spoiler]
These limitations are a big part in what can make Super's animation much less interesting to look at, the issue being, with their current designs you cannot take liberties with the characters, without them looking wholly off model. And I feel this may be one thing that bugs a lot of the people working on dragon ball. No, this isnt to say make all the characters One Piece out, but it is a request to streamline those designs.
I am an Animator, Illustrator, and Voice Actor. Check out MY Animation Thesis! HERE
I seriously don't know why Super doesn't use more repeated animation like the one used in this clip. That would help a lot, wouldn't it??? This clip is an example that repeated sequences (am i using the right jargon??) isn't necessarily a bad thing if done right.
It almost feels like Super has something against using animation shorthands. It has very short openings and endings, relatively short recaps, and hardly any repeated frames. Although, then again, they seem to use a lot more digital animation shorthands. Maybe because they're harder to notice.
I could have gotten into anything...and yet I chose the story aimed at young Japanese boys about martial arts, and later about super-powerful aliens punching each other really hard.
Anime Kitten wrote:I heard (and have seen) that Resurrection 'F' has good animation. Is it true? Is it better or worse than Battle of Gods?
I mean it comes down to your tastes. I think it's good for the most part, way too much CG though. I think the main issue is that storyboarding can be kinda meh, mainly during the Goku VS Freeza fight. I know the 1,000 solider fight gets a lot of shit here for the static camera, but I honestly like when a camera is kept static for a bit to show of martial arts, similar to many live action movies.
Yeah the CG borderline almost ruins the non-base Goku Freeza fight. And I thought the base Goku Freeza fight was actually really well animated but the mix of CG totally takes you out the main fight.
I seriously don't know why Super doesn't use more repeated animation like the one used in this clip. That would help a lot, wouldn't it??? This clip is an example that repeated sequences (am i using the right jargon??) isn't necessarily a bad thing if done right.
Look for example here:
[spoiler][/spoiler]
"Repeating frames"
I dont think it really would help. It was fine in the DBZ era, but nowadays I think standards are higher, so they should use that trick sparingly. It can work to gret effect sometimes, hell even Gintama pulled it off
I'd argue it's not the inability to take shortcuts, but the directing itself seems uninspired. Looping like that works under great direction, not so much under the poor direction that Super is prone to getting during it's fight scenes.
I think people want emphasis on good animaton, I believe the emphasis SHOULD be on solid directing. it can turn scenes with mediocre animation into masterpieces.
I am an Animator, Illustrator, and Voice Actor. Check out MY Animation Thesis! HERE
A Man named RJ wrote:
I think people want emphasis on good animaton, I believe the emphasis SHOULD be on solid directing. it can turn scenes with mediocre animation into masterpieces.
Very true. Episode 6 fo Super had hardly any action, but it was directed so well.
FortuneSSJ wrote:
It always depends with who you are talking to. There's some people that are always bitching about everything in Super, while they glorify DBZ with their nostalgia goggles on.
Trying to have a healthy discussion with them is a lost cause and not worth your time, because they just don't accept anything that isn't bashing Super.
I was really trying not to do this in this thread, but you had to come in here with your baseless post.
His post is certainly not baseless. There are indeed people who will insist that DBZ didn't have poor animation. That doesn't make Super's animation not poor, and that most definitely doesn't mean that anyone speaking poorly of Super's animation is doing so from the standpoint that Z was perfect, but that's beside the point. There are definitely people that delusional out there. Just like the people who believe that DB/Z had no plotholes or contrived plot points.
As for Yamamuro, I don't even know. It's one of the saddest fucking things. I remember seeing these on Ajay's Twitter a while back. Some contemporary drawings by one of the animators from the original anime:
[spoiler] [/spoiler]
I don't know what we all did to deserve it, but got the Bad Ending.
As for Yamamuro, I don't even know. It's one of the saddest fucking things. I remember seeing these on Ajay's Twitter a while back. Some contemporary drawings by one of the animators from the original anime:
[spoiler] [/spoiler]
I don't know what we all did to deserve it, but got the Bad Ending.
I wish modern Dragonball was more diverse with it's designs. Now everything's stuck with the late Cell/early Boo arc art styles.
Dude, how didn't I note trunks nice spin in 48 in the fight vs black? compared with the loose animated spin from tate.... I'll stick with shimamuki's one
cuartas wrote:Dude, how didn't I note trunks nice spin in 48 in the fight vs black? compared with the loose animated spin from tate.... I'll stick with shimamuki's one
cuartas wrote:Dude, how didn't I note trunks nice spin in 48 in the fight vs black? compared with the loose animated spin from tate.... I'll stick with shimamuki's one
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