Could the Freeza Saga have been better?

Synapse · Post by **Synapse** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 4:33 pm

I hear some people say that DBZ should have ended at the Freeza saga. Personally, it was probably my least favorite. I would have wanted Freeza to be a lot more powerful (towards the end of course...the part before he powered up to 50% was fine). It always seemed like he was getting owned then doing damage, then getting owned substantially more.

Then once Goku became a Super Saiyan, he got beat too easily, even though I will admit he had SSJ Goku pretty well once he went up to 100% power. Still, I just think Freeza was getting beat on too much, and too many episodes would just turn into him having having screaming fits (and Ryūsei Nakao's screams are like nails on a chalkboard) when he keeps failing at everything.

I would have at least had the battle with Freeza last a little longer and in more stages, that's what made the Cell and Buu sagas much better to me. Oh, and did I mention Freeza begging for mercy? That's probably my least favorite moment in all of the Dragonball series. I mean, this dude has most of the universe in the palm of his hand, is the one responsible for the destruction of Goku's homeworld, and is feared pretty much everywhere...and all of a sudden he's begging for help? It was ridiculous. As far as I've seen, no other major villain has done this.

But what do you guys think?

KinoFourpaws · Post by **KinoFourpaws** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:02 pm

As to your wish that the Freeza fight would have been longer, I think the general consensus among Dragonball fans is that it already lasted TOO long (five minutes 'til Nameck explosion, anyone?). Maybe if they made those particular episodes a little more interesting (i.e. containing more than just standoffs, lots of talking, and occasionally exchanging blows), it wouldn't be so bad...

And to be honest, I kind of like the irony of Freeza, former tyrant of galaxies, begging for mercy at Goku's feet. Really shows a switch in position and kinda reveals the guy's real nature (ultimately a yellow little coward who hides behind his power--not really good leader material at all).

Synapse · Post by **Synapse** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:28 pm

lol, Well yeah you can say it was too long in the sense of all the uninteresting stuff that went on. That's basically what I meant...more fighting and less repition. I dunno, just more like the Buu Saga.

Plus, I know it's nice irony, but still, that mercy scene just makes Freeza so much less badass. The best villains to me just do what they do, and if they get destroyed, then they're destroyed.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:44 am

Okay, read this, please.

The drama behind Freeza's being defeated so easily by SSj Goku was awesome. This guy was the ruthless, undisputed, incontestable, tyrannical, supreme scumbag of the Universe. No one, no matter how vigilant and virtuous, could hope to overthrow Freeza, immortal or not. Freeza made (almost) sure of this by essentially wiping out the only race that might have ended up standing a chance. I mean, Freeza was power-hungry, murderous, and just plain an all-around evil guy. His actions ever since he was introduced show this.

Yet in the end, he's soundly beaten by the very last member of the race he tried so hard to extinguish in order to maintain his fiery grip on the Universe. Not just beaten, either; utterly defeated and humiliated to the point where he's left begging for mercy and, like Kino said, showing his true inner colors. And even then, he ends up twisting Goku's last act of mercy around and tries to use it against him, only to be blasted down with a final cry of "YOU FOOL!!!" Gives me shivers every time. Really, it does. I have the DVD of that episode, and I watch it often. Heck, I'm feeling like popping it in my laptop right now.

Overall and ultimately, it's a story of good not just "overcoming" evil, but good body-slamming evil into the ground, snapping its neck, spitting on its face, and letting it off easy in doing so. That, folks, is how I like my stories told, and why DragonBall is easily my favorite story.

Only thing that could make the final fight better (besides the obvious "I'm-sure-the-five-minutes-will-be-up-any-second-now..." deal), IMO, would be if the animation was consistently good throughout it...

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 2:24 am

Plus, Super Saiyan was awesome when it was only Goku.

KinoFourpaws · Post by **KinoFourpaws** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 3:40 am

SSj Kaboom wrote:Yet in the end, he's soundly beaten by the very last member of the race he tried so hard to extinguish in order to maintain his fiery grip on the Universe. Not just beaten, either; utterly defeated and humiliated to the point where he's left begging for mercy and, like Kino said, showing his true inner colors. And even then, he ends up twisting Goku's last act of mercy around and tries to use it against him, only to be blasted down with a final cry of "YOU FOOL!!!" Gives me shivers every time. Really, it does. I have the DVD of that episode, and I watch it often. Heck, I'm feeling like popping it in my laptop right now.

Aah! Uhm... thank you for the mention?

Same wrote:Overall and ultimately, it's a story of good not just "overcoming" evil, but good body-slamming evil into the ground, snapping its neck, spitting on its face, and letting it off easy in doing so. That, folks, is how I like my stories told, and why DragonBall is easily my favorite story.

If that's what you call "easy", then does your idea of sufficient punishment for the guy include Goku roasting him over a barbecue and tearing off and eating his flesh alive? Or is that my own morbid imagination at work? >___>;;

Same finally (last time I'm quoting the same person here, I swear D: ) wrote:Only thing that could make the final fight better (besides the obvious "I'm-sure-the-five-minutes-will-be-up-any-second-now..." deal), IMO, would be if the animation was consistently good throughout it...

Makes me wonder if maybe I should try redoing this particular part myself... as a personal project of course. It piques my interest enough to try. ^^;

Now, whether or not I could get the animation to look Toei-style will yet to be seen, provided I get very far with the idea at all... o__o;

EDIT: Wh00t, small text. B:

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 9:39 am

Rocketman wrote:Plus, Super Saiyan was awesome when it was only Goku.

Yes, that too.

KinoFourpaws wrote:f that's what you call "easy", then does your idea of sufficient punishment for the guy include Goku roasting him over a barbecue and tearing off and eating his flesh alive?

...Mebbe.

Kula · Post by **Kula** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:22 am

I have a VHS tape of the Freeza saga that I recorded from Toonami. It has all of the openings, closings, recaps and previews cut out. They are the cut versions, and the tape is still 4 hours long. It's a great fight (one of my all time favourites), but it's too damn long. I wouldn't change much about the whole saga except for the pacing of the fight.

I realise that there were endless cut aways to Bulma or to Earth and other flash backs, but that was done for filler purposes. Personally I would like to see the SSJ Goku vs Freeza fight in it's entirety in about 2 episodes or so. No cut aways, no flash backs and no filler. Freeza's estimate should have been closer to 30 mins or so, and just have 30 mins of non stop action.

Synapse · Post by **Synapse** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 2:51 pm

I guess it isn't too short then, lol. Then again, it sort of is compared to the other sagas, but that's besides the point. I guess it's just the fact that Freeza was exhalted to such a high level and hyped up tremendously, so I would have liked it if he hadn't gotten so badly beat, or had more special tricks up his sleeve.

But, no matter what you say, I just can't stand to see a villain beg for mercy, no matter how much it shows his true colors. I'd rather a humiliated, utterly defeated dude be like "Damn you!" or "impossible!" before he dies than anything else.

Friezafan120 · Post by **Friezafan120** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 4:05 pm

His begging for mercy makes Freeza all the more despicable. I personally love the Freeza Saga, and consider it the true high point of the series. Freeza is by far the most complex of all the villains, and his defeat is much more rousing than any of the other villains'.

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 7:04 pm

Will also admit I thought his whole talking back to departing Goku before firing the blast at him was one of the best lines that Linda Young did as him. Still would have preferred him to have King Kold's English voice but still ok.

Vhanos · Post by **Vhanos** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:07 am

Frieza beat up on too much? How about Cell? He got plain humiliated by Gohan.

I think that Frieza begging for mercy and then using his remaining energy to fire a blast at Goku made it sting all the more. Showed more why he was evil.

Kanzenshuu

Could the Freeza Saga have been better?

Could the Freeza Saga have been better?

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