Frost - A Wasted Opportunity?

[ABED]

Hell yeah, Frost was wasted. He could have been a pretty deep villain if there were more layers added as to why he started wars on planets beyond "for the evulz". He could have been Dragon Ball's answer to Lex Luthor in handled properly. Instead, he just because a cardboard cut out copy of Freeza.

I think Lex is a good villain, but I've never found his reasons for hating Superman particularly compelling, but I loved Smallville's take on him. And none of the villains in DB are that deep. Even Vegeta, who's the most multifaceted villain isn't what I would consider deep.

[precita]

I doubt we'll ever see Frost again so it doesn't matter.

[SSJ Human]

I just hope he reappears again and maybe reforms. I feel there's still a chance for his character but we'll see.

But if he reforms, isn't that just as repetitive as retaining a member of Freeza's race as evil?

Nah. They could find something interesting for him to do.

[fadeddreams5]

I personally feel Frost is one of the worst characters, if not the worst character, ever introduced in this entire franchise and hopefully never reappears again.

I doubt we'll ever see Frost again so it doesn't matter.

I'm sure we will in the upcoming multiverse tournament, along with the other U6 guys.

[Hellspawn28]

Frost being a good guy should have happen. Him being evil was stupid, but at least he is different from Freeza. I don't get why people hate Frost, but like Coola? Coola is just like his brother, but he can transform one more time. Coola in the Japanese version of Movie 5 didn't have much of a personality going for him. At least Frost has a different personally as he pretends to be good and likes a good fight.

[Nejishiki]

I'll have to challenge that opinion of Coola. Coola was different than his brother in that he prided himself in being efficient like his father and was supportive of his men. While Freeza enjoyed playing the act of a cruel gentleman, Coola was more direct with his threats. He was akin to an enforcer who wanted to make a point rather than somebody who needed to lord their superiority at all times. Adding on, Nakao breathed life into his Coola character with his distinct, straightforward, calm voice in comparison to his Freeza's showmanship and then eventual brattiness. You can probably tell it's one of my favorite movies, so I think you're doing him a disservice claiming he's just exactly like Freeza as others are claiming Frost is exactly like Freeza. There are bits and pieces of his personality to contrast him from Freeza in the short time we spend with him. (The impression I got was that Frost disliked fighting by his true nature? He pretended to like the sportsmanship, but seemed to find it a bother once his facade had whisked away.)

[ABED]

I just hope he reappears again and maybe reforms. I feel there's still a chance for his character but we'll see.

But if he reforms, isn't that just as repetitive as retaining a member of Freeza's race as evil?

Nah. They could find something interesting for him to do.

So he can't do anything evil and be interesting?

[DragonBallFoodie]

Well, the Universe 6 fighters apart from Cabba and Hit were wasted opportunities. Botamo was a bear and Magetta was a tin can.

I was disappointed in Frost to begin with, but in retrospect it looks like Hit was a better parallel to Frieza than Frost.

TVTropes explains it best:

In a clever bit of misdirection, it turns out he's the real good or at least neutral counterpart to Frieza. Both are natural prodigies feared in their universe as the mightiest force of death. Both immediately curb stomp Vegeta, then faces Goku in an encounter which represents both the introduction of a never-before-seen form of power for Goku as well as the first time they've ever had to improve their skills. Both possess creative (for their time) abilities taking them beyond the typical DBZ Beam-O-War fighting style, purple as a color motif, and inhumanly long lifespans (Frieza has lived long enough for Goku and Vegeta's entire childhoods to pass without the slightest sign of aging on his part, while Hit is over a thousand years old).

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/c ... nBallSuper

[Gaffer Tape]

I think this is actually rather similar to the thread about which version of Tagoma is better because I think it demonstrates Super's lack of ability to think things through and their penchant to exacerbate a problem. See, I was really infuriated by the build-up of Tagoma in the TV series that led to nothing. Having already seen the movie, when I saw the episodes in the TV series, it seemed as though they were trying to expand on a character that did very little in the movie. And that was satisfying until they threw it all away just to shoehorn Ginyu into the series one last time. I personally think it screwed over both characters, but I do now find myself wondering whether or not it would have bothered me that much if I had only seen the TV series and not the movie. Then would it have played as some kind of joke, where Tagoma expresses all of his angst and newly-simmered sadistic evil... only to be replaced by this flamboyant, posing ninny? I don't know. I'd have to watch the scene again to get a better feel for its tone, and I really don't want to. But my point is, even if that was the case, it was undermined by the franchise's own recent material encouraging certain expectations.

And I think that's very similar to the situation with Frost, only with Frost, I think it's even worse. The idea of a multiverse Freeza-clone, in a vacuum, could be very good. But it's undermined by Freeza overload. Putting aside Coola, movie 12, and even the more recent Chilled, we had had too much Freeza. He was the target of the huge marketing campaign for Resurrection 'F', which was less than a year old. And we had literally just finished a multi-episode story arc retelling those same events. Freeza had literally just been the villain in the same show. So I honestly can't imagine what they were thinking putting in a Freeza-clone right after the Resurrection 'F' story arc. How could that possibly have been a good idea?

With all of that context, the only solace I took, the only thing that made it even remotely interesting, was that Frost was being portrayed in a manner as far-removed from Freeza as possible. Just like with Tagoma, just like with Gohan's determined assertion he'd start training again, this is not the series failing to live up to fan expectations. These are expectations the writers are setting up! And I'm all about clever misdirection and subverting expectations. But in these cases, it's "subverting" what was already a different direction from what people would expect (making a good Freeza, making Tagoma into a credible threat) only for the "twist" to be the status quo! So anyway, yadda yadda yadda, Frost is evil, after all. So we basically get Freeza, again. And, yes, Freeza again. The design, the poison spikes, and the fact the he lied about being evil are all so superficial and minuscule that it does little to obscure that, yes, this is once again Freeza in a new coat of paint. Yawn.

[ABED]

I don't think that's Freeza overload. The Freeza arc in Z is much longer than in Super + the movie.

[SSJ Human]

But if he reforms, isn't that just as repetitive as retaining a member of Freeza's race as evil?

Nah. They could find something interesting for him to do.

So he can't do anything evil and be interesting?

I never wrote that. I was merely saying that him being evil could be seen as a repeat of Freeza.

[ABED]

I never wrote that. I was merely saying that him being evil could be seen as a repeat of Freeza.

It's a logical inference. What if he's evil but in a different way? The issue is that if he's evil, that's seen as repetitive, but isn't the bad guy turned good guy just as repetitive?

[MadSaiyantist]

I don't think Frost is a wasted opportunity because I have a feeling he's going to be back. Champa did say that they better start training for the next one. (Or something along those lines) Champa and Vados training Frost, Cabba, and Hit would make for a good set of episodes.

[Gaffer Tape]

I don't think that's Freeza overload. The Freeza arc in Z is much longer than in Super + the movie.

Length has nothing to do with it. It's frequency. The Freeza arc is one story. And it actually IS a story. He makes a brief cameo in the next one that finishes him off. All fine. His character is finished. Unless he's going to be a main or recurring character, everything after that is just a gimmick. He comes back. He gets taken out in less time than it takes me to get to work. And you factor in all the Nakao-voiced Freeza clones, it's basically been the same thing over and over and over again. Seven times. In one form or another a "Freeza" has returned SEVEN times since Trunks finished him off. And four of those times have been in the past six years. You don't call that overload?

[ABED]

I don't think that's Freeza overload. The Freeza arc in Z is much longer than in Super + the movie.

Length has nothing to do with it. It's frequency. The Freeza arc is one story. And it actually IS a story. He makes a brief cameo in the next one that finishes him off. All fine. His character is finished. Unless he's going to be a main or recurring character, everything after that is just a gimmick. He comes back. He gets taken out in less time than it takes me to get to work. And you factor in all the Nakao-voiced Freeza clones, it's basically been the same thing over and over and over again. Seven times. In one form or another a "Freeza" has returned SEVEN times since Trunks finished him off. And four of those times have been in the past six years. You don't call that overload?

Length does have a lot to do with it. If Freeza was in two separate but consecutive movies, that would be more frequent, but I fail to see how that leads to overload more than if the story is longer. One of the reasons I don't like the Buu arc that much is because it's too long. Four times in six years!? That's six whole years. No, I don't call that overload. I have no problem with going back to Freeza as long as I find it interesting.

And what do you consider the seven times? I wouldn't count Coola as he is a distinct character. There are similarities, but he's not Freeza.

[jplaya2023]

*Spoilers for the U6 Tournament*

So in the beginning of the tournament, Frost is shown to be a good guy, more good than Goku even. He's a good Frieza, an emperor who fights evil.

As we all know, though, it's revealed that it's all an act and that he's essentially a Frieza clone. But what if this twist never happened?

Goku stated in Resurrection F that he wished Frieza wasn't as evil, so he could have him as a rival. Well, with Frost he got that. I'm not saying Frost should've become a core member of the cast, but having him be truly a good Frieza, a new rival for Goku, and a key ally in the future would have been much more interesting. It also would've added more to the story as he could've explained what Frieza's race is.

What do you all think on the Frost "twist" not existing?

frost is so much weaker than goku i fail to see how they become rivals unless he can unlock a golden form like frieza