Your Problem(s) with DragonBall Super

[TheMikado]

Beerus and Whis have been around for 75 million years, apparently also killing the dinosaurs

Which still makes no sense because dinosaurs are still around in Dragon Ball.

And Z, but I guess they heard Beerus was going to be back in town in super and took the nearest capsule Corp ship to Namek...

[SSJ Human]

[*]The retellings of the movies were bad.

[*]And Universe 6 felt rushed, and almost useless, even if it was enjoyable to watch at the time.

[*]But most of all, I hate, HATE, HATE what they did personality-wise to Videl and Android 18. Videl is a fucking robot now, which is sad because she used to be spunky and epic.

I also dislike how they won't even make #18 get involved - if Master Roshi and Krillin can fight in Resurrection F, and Picillo can still fight (even as fodder), then I don't see why #18 - whose personality is a nice contrast from the rest btw - can't.

Other than that, I'm enjoying DB Super. I'm still mad about Videl tho. I'm not even saying they need to make her fight (she's a human afterall), just don't make her have the personality of damp towel.

Agreed with pretty much all of these points though I'd argue the Universe 6 arc was meant to introduce characters that might be brought back later on and I'd prefer its length to that of the material we had before.

The only way you're going to see Videl or 18 involved in the plot now is during fan fiction. Like I said before, they could have easily made them relevant as they did with Krillin during the android arc from Z but I guess they figured that would make too much sense.

[404FILENOTFOUND]

One of the problems I have with Super is no real unique or appealing designs. I understand Universe 6 is supposed to be twins with Universe 7 but just having Champa be a chubby Beerus with Vados being a gender bent Whis along side copy Vegeta and Black choosing to look like Goku with Frost just feels uninspired. Though I do have to say I like the addition of the leg guards in Frost's first form and he does look appealing with his colors. Botamo...eh, just not my cup of tea.

I don't like the retellings but I do have to admit they do have some material (which is very little) that I would have loved to be in the movies. Maybe fan edits will bring those in (God bless Ajay)

Piccolo not winning against Frost, Majin Buu not being in the tournament due to sleeping. Cabba turning into a Super Saiyan...I liked it but I felt it was just too quick, the after math of him going berserk on Vegeta was beautiful.

This show could have used some serious pre-production, I enjoy the show but gosh tarnation hecky!

[Mazingerdestro]

One of the problems I have with Super is no real unique or appealing designs. I understand Universe 6 is supposed to be twins with Universe 7 but just having Champa be a chubby Beerus with Vados being a gender bent Whis along side copy Vegeta and Black choosing to look like Goku with Frost just feels uninspired. Though I do have to say I like the addition of the leg guards in Frost's first form and he does look appealing with his colors. Botamo...eh, just not my cup of tea.

I don't like the retellings but I do have to admit they do have some material (which is very little) that I would have loved to be in the movies. Maybe fan edits will bring those in (God bless Ajay)

Piccolo not winning against Frost, Majin Buu not being in the tournament due to sleeping. Cabba turning into a Super Saiyan...I liked it but I felt it was just too quick, the after math of him going berserk on Vegeta was beautiful.

This show could have used some serious pre-production, I enjoy the show but gosh tarnation hecky!

I am pretty sure that the dbmultiverse theory "many universes with different gokus doesn't apply in dbs". The only person that looks alike is Champa because he is Beerus' twin bro. The chances of evil Goku with beard are zero.

I would also wish that they could stop some stereotypes "Frost clan are all bad guys". Frost been noble was the best plot twist. People were starting liking that guy. Many people told me that a noble Frost clan member would be the start of the good members of the Frost clan in xenoverse and dbonline. He should be a nice guy. I think Herms once said "just imagine our universe been the evil half" considering Frost was a good guy and cabba was a space defender.

Personally I found Hit very interesting as a character. After Beerus, most enemies have personalities and go beyond the "I am eviiiiiiiiil" persona.

Champa is a fatso that is constantly fighting with his brother but deep down he likes him.

Black been a being that wants to save the planet from humanity also sounds interesting

[MCDaveG]

I don't know, I think we won't acomplish anything with criticism.
Yeah, the show is poorly maintained in comparison to other shows that air in Japan right now, sadly even to other TOEI shows.
Movie retellings were weak, hufe Pilaf plotholes or rather, forgeting to explain their age and the all enveloping amnesia when nobody remembers anyone from the previous series,
which is even more jarring in Trunks arc when they all mysteriously became friends. Don't tell me that Pilaf had change of heart.
Design department lacks behind manga with the best example being the U6 Tournament arc, where the ring and battle grounds looks so poor and the U6 spectators are completely missing.

Only thing we can is just suck it up and enjoy the show for what it is, but yeah, as I said before, I won't be supporting this show at all financially.
I will be watching illegal stream, the same way if the show ran on TV, but I don't have any desire or will to actually own it on DVD or expensive Blu-ray.

I would love some characters in Xenoverse 2 tough.

[TekTheNinja]

Beerus and Whis have been around for 75 million years, apparently also killing the dinosaurs

Which still makes no sense because dinosaurs are still around in Dragon Ball.

And Z, but I guess they heard Beerus was going to be back in town in super and took the nearest capsule Corp ship to Namek...

I was referring to Dragon Ball as a whole.

The only issues I find are the art and animation sometimes being inconsistant.

I'm fine with the character usage, because the whole thing of using all of ur support characters doesnt work.

It didnt work in One Piece Dressrosa arc, which turned into be a mess, its even worse in Bleach when the MC is treated like a side character!.

It worked in HunterXHunter. It worked in Boku no Hero Academia. It worked in nearly every other good shonen anime/manga out there.

[namekiansaiyan]

Which still makes no sense because dinosaurs are still around in Dragon Ball.

And Z, but I guess they heard Beerus was going to be back in town in super and took the nearest capsule Corp ship to Namek...

I was referring to Dragon Ball as a whole.

The only issues I find are the art and animation sometimes being inconsistant.

I'm fine with the character usage, because the whole thing of using all of ur support characters doesnt work.

It didnt work in One Piece Dressrosa arc, which turned into be a mess, its even worse in Bleach when the MC is treated like a side character!.

It worked in HunterXHunter. It worked in Boku no Hero Academia. It worked in nearly every other good shonen anime/manga out there.

The character usage is useless in Super, it does not help that there is only 1 villain currently with no one else with Goku Black. Toriyama could have done a simple thing like Goku not going with Beerus and Whis to universe 10 but Krillin and Piccolo instead while Goku trained at Roshi's or something. It is just called laziness by Toriyama.

I also think sidelining the main character at certain points is a good thing to do like in the Cell arc which I think is probably the best arc. This is because the main character is usually nothing without the side characters, whereas the side characters are usually more interesting by themselves.

[Kishido]

Shitty power level
Stupid Goku
Even more shit Gohan
Pilaf and Co.
Animation

[Miracles]

Wow, most of the complaints about Super are not even legit. Stemming from ignorance about Dragon ball as a whole. It's no surprise Gohan is out, he didn't fight out of pleasure but necessity. Didn't even train after Cell games because he rather study. Vegeta and Goku mocked him a failure then. Only reason why he was made relevant in Buu arc was a plot device [Hand out from the Z sword]. Other than that Gohan is a book worm, who was not like his father; consistency.People complain about this because they feel Toriyama should respect Gohan's fandom but Toriyama does not care. The murmurings about the use of the Z fighters? Come on, Toriyama slowly moved them out ever since the defeat of Vegeta. Showing up here and there as a distraction was their roles from then on. As enemies gotten stronger Toriyama shifted focus away from them and made this the Goku and Vegeta show. But many wouldn't complain about this if they only knew/remembered Dragonball Z as a whole.

The only legit complaints are concerning animation, low level battle scenes [compared to DBZ original anime], and the mistreatment of Piccolo. You would think a character who was consistently rivaling Goku and Vegeta in power would be relevant [Main villain in Dragon ball, fought along side Goku vs Radditz, fought Frieza head on, fought android 17 head on, fought first form Cell head, while at those times being the strongest of the cast mind you; however non existent Buu arc]. I will just enjoy Super for what it is, a continuation of Dragonball.

[perucho1990]

Which still makes no sense because dinosaurs are still around in Dragon Ball.

And Z, but I guess they heard Beerus was going to be back in town in super and took the nearest capsule Corp ship to Namek...

I was referring to Dragon Ball as a whole.

The only issues I find are the art and animation sometimes being inconsistant.

I'm fine with the character usage, because the whole thing of using all of ur support characters doesnt work.

It didnt work in One Piece Dressrosa arc, which turned into be a mess, its even worse in Bleach when the MC is treated like a side character!.

It worked in HunterXHunter. It worked in Boku no Hero Academia. It worked in nearly every other good shonen anime/manga out there.

BNHA is still a young manga, remember how Naruto was giving their support characters the spotlight in the beginning? Thats why i didnt include it.

HxH might be the exception given that is a deconstruction of a Shounen, and no, OPM is a seinen

[Kanassa]

I think Super's biggest problems were the retellings, simply because they are putting a movie plot into the series. And with Revival of F, this shows to a high degree. With BoG it was able, for the most part, to fit nicly as an arc of a show. But with Revival of F it being an Arc in an on going show and not a self-contained movie makes it all the more glaring, this is especially apparently when looking back on Revival of F along with all the other arcs, for me it is completly pointless.

What would of Super lost in the grand scheme of things if the arc did not happen? Super Saiyan Blue? Character Development? Really, the only plot related thing taken away could be Whis's reset button f that ever comes into play later.

[Draconic]

The production. I've gotten used to it by now, but it still is a huge flaw.

Goku's stupidity being way too exaggerated. He never was the most mature or smart guy, but outside of a couple of moments here and there, he seems like a caricature of himself.

The RoF arc. The worst arc in any of the shows. Managed to fix some of the movie's problems, but created new ones just as bad.

The lack of blood. I don't care about gore and guts spilling everywhere, but when a guy's face gets cut or his body gets pierced, it should show something.

Minor things: the soundtrack is hit or miss, the pacing of the BoG and U6 arc could have been better.

[TheMikado]

I think Super's biggest problems were the retellings, simply because they are putting a movie plot into the series. And with Revival of F, this shows to a high degree. With BoG it was able, for the most part, to fit nicly as an arc of a show. But with Revival of F it being an Arc in an on going show and not a self-contained movie makes it all the more glaring, this is especially apparently when looking back on Revival of F along with all the other arcs, for me it is completly pointless.

What would of Super lost in the grand scheme of things if the arc did not happen? Super Saiyan Blue? Character Development? Really, the only plot related thing taken away could be Whis's reset button f that ever comes into play later.

The problem is the Champa arc and the mini Goo arc both did the same thing as F. I.e. Contributed little to nothing to the series. The only real ramifications of the Champa arc so far have been the introduction to the Omniking and that could have been done in 5 mins in any episode.

In Z the Raditz arc directly caused Vegeta coming to earth which directly caused them to go to Namek which caused them to fight Frieza which brought Frieza here which enabled Geros machine to make cell etc etc. not even discussing all the things that happen in between. Even GT has interwoven continuing stories. Black star arc results in baby arc which leads dr myuu to Gero to super 17 to shadow dragons arc.

[Kanassa]

I think Super's biggest problems were the retellings, simply because they are putting a movie plot into the series. And with Revival of F, this shows to a high degree. With BoG it was able, for the most part, to fit nicly as an arc of a show. But with Revival of F it being an Arc in an on going show and not a self-contained movie makes it all the more glaring, this is especially apparently when looking back on Revival of F along with all the other arcs, for me it is completly pointless.

What would of Super lost in the grand scheme of things if the arc did not happen? Super Saiyan Blue? Character Development? Really, the only plot related thing taken away could be Whis's reset button f that ever comes into play later.

The problem is the Champa arc and the mini Goo arc both did the same thing as F. I.e. Contributed little to nothing to the series. The only real ramifications of the Champa arc so far have been the introduction to the Omniking and that could have been done in 5 mins in any episode.

In Z the Raditz arc directly caused Vegeta coming to earth which directly caused them to go to Namek which caused them to fight Frieza which brought Frieza here which enabled Geros machine to make cell etc etc. not even discussing all the things that happen in between. Even GT has interwoven continuing stories. Black star arc results in baby arc which leads dr myuu to Gero to super 17 to shadow dragons arc.

The mini goo arc was filler, so I kind of expect it to be somthing skippable (Though, to be fair it did show us the time machine fuel before the Trunks arc). But I'd argue that the Champa arc added world building and introduced new characters (Characters who are heaviy hinted to re-appear), how the whole Gods thing works and introduce some character development for Vegeta... Well, a sliver. It also gives more reason for why Beerus is closer tot he Z-Fighters as he needs them for the next tournament.

[perucho1990]

I think Super's biggest problems were the retellings, simply because they are putting a movie plot into the series. And with Revival of F, this shows to a high degree. With BoG it was able, for the most part, to fit nicly as an arc of a show. But with Revival of F it being an Arc in an on going show and not a self-contained movie makes it all the more glaring, this is especially apparently when looking back on Revival of F along with all the other arcs, for me it is completly pointless.

What would of Super lost in the grand scheme of things if the arc did not happen? Super Saiyan Blue? Character Development? Really, the only plot related thing taken away could be Whis's reset button f that ever comes into play later.

The problem is the Champa arc and the mini Goo arc both did the same thing as F. I.e. Contributed little to nothing to the series. The only real ramifications of the Champa arc so far have been the introduction to the Omniking and that could have been done in 5 mins in any episode.

In Z the Raditz arc directly caused Vegeta coming to earth which directly caused them to go to Namek which caused them to fight Frieza which brought Frieza here which enabled Geros machine to make cell etc etc. not even discussing all the things that happen in between. Even GT has interwoven continuing stories. Black star arc results in baby arc which leads dr myuu to Gero to super 17 to shadow dragons arc.

It set up another arc that might happen for next year? And in the meanwhile they should be more arcs that builds up the other Universes(It started with Universe 10) and set up the stakes once Multiversal Tourney happens and not make it predictable like the Champa Arc.

[TekTheNinja]

Wow, most of the complaints about Super are not even legit. Stemming from ignorance about Dragon ball as a whole. It's no surprise Gohan is out, he didn't fight out of pleasure but necessity. Didn't even train after Cell games because he rather study. Vegeta and Goku mocked him a failure then. Only reason why he was made relevant in Buu arc was a plot device [Hand out from the Z sword]. Other than that Gohan is a book worm, who was not like his father; consistency.People complain about this because they feel Toriyama should respect Gohan's fandom but Toriyama does not care. The murmurings about the use of the Z fighters? Come on, Toriyama slowly moved them out ever since the defeat of Vegeta. Showing up here and there as a distraction was their roles from then on. As enemies gotten stronger Toriyama shifted focus away from them and made this the Goku and Vegeta show. But many wouldn't complain about this if they only knew/remembered Dragonball Z as a whole.

The only legit complaints are concerning animation, low level battle scenes [compared to DBZ original anime], and the mistreatment of Piccolo. You would think a character who was consistently rivaling Goku and Vegeta in power would be relevant [Main villain in Dragon ball, fought along side Goku vs Radditz, fought Frieza head on, fought android 17 head on, fought first form Cell head, while at those times being the strongest of the cast mind you; however non existent Buu arc]. I will just enjoy Super for what it is, a continuation of Dragonball.

You can disagree, but but to claim our character usage complains aren't "legit" or that the argument comes from a point of ignorance is just impolite and incorrect. Out arguments are just as valid as yours.

And stop acting like cast was also irrelevant in Z because they weren't.

BNHA is still a young manga, remember how Naruto was giving their support characters the spotlight in the beginning? Thats why i didnt include it.

And it got way worse when it became "The Naruto and Sasuke Show" Just like how Super is worse off being "The Goku and Vegeta Show". I don't really get how you can say using the full cast doesn't work when so many shows prove otherwise.

[Kanassa]

It is the rule of the internet: You're a white knight if you like the property, you're a whiner if you hate them, you're a scummy fence sitter if you're in the middle.

[namekiansaiyan]

And Z, but I guess they heard Beerus was going to be back in town in super and took the nearest capsule Corp ship to Namek...

I was referring to Dragon Ball as a whole.

The only issues I find are the art and animation sometimes being inconsistant.

I'm fine with the character usage, because the whole thing of using all of ur support characters doesnt work.

It didnt work in One Piece Dressrosa arc, which turned into be a mess, its even worse in Bleach when the MC is treated like a side character!.

It worked in HunterXHunter. It worked in Boku no Hero Academia. It worked in nearly every other good shonen anime/manga out there.

BNHA is still a young manga, remember how Naruto was giving their support characters the spotlight in the beginning? Thats why i didnt include it.

HxH might be the exception given that is a deconstruction of a Shounen, and no, OPM is a seinen

Fairy Tail is really good at character usage and it has a huge cast.

[perucho1990]

Wow, most of the complaints about Super are not even legit. Stemming from ignorance about Dragon ball as a whole. It's no surprise Gohan is out, he didn't fight out of pleasure but necessity. Didn't even train after Cell games because he rather study. Vegeta and Goku mocked him a failure then. Only reason why he was made relevant in Buu arc was a plot device [Hand out from the Z sword]. Other than that Gohan is a book worm, who was not like his father; consistency.People complain about this because they feel Toriyama should respect Gohan's fandom but Toriyama does not care. The murmurings about the use of the Z fighters? Come on, Toriyama slowly moved them out ever since the defeat of Vegeta. Showing up here and there as a distraction was their roles from then on. As enemies gotten stronger Toriyama shifted focus away from them and made this the Goku and Vegeta show. But many wouldn't complain about this if they only knew/remembered Dragonball Z as a whole.

The only legit complaints are concerning animation, low level battle scenes [compared to DBZ original anime], and the mistreatment of Piccolo. You would think a character who was consistently rivaling Goku and Vegeta in power would be relevant [Main villain in Dragon ball, fought along side Goku vs Radditz, fought Frieza head on, fought android 17 head on, fought first form Cell head, while at those times being the strongest of the cast mind you; however non existent Buu arc]. I will just enjoy Super for what it is, a continuation of Dragonball.

You can disagree, but but to claim our character usage complains aren't "legit" or that the argument comes from a point of ignorance is just impolite and incorrect. Out arguments are just as valid as yours.

And stop acting like cast was also irrelevant in Z because they weren't.

BNHA is still a young manga, remember how Naruto was giving their support characters the spotlight in the beginning? Thats why i didnt include it.

And it got way worse when it became "The Naruto and Sasuke Show" Just like how Super is worse off being "The Goku and Vegeta Show". I don't really get how you can say using the full cast doesn't work when so many shows prove otherwise.

Its because other shows have their MAIN cast consisting of around 4-5 people? Togashi did it with HxH and YYH, Araki Hirohiko did it with JJBA.

The key word is main cast, it doesnt make sense to give ur support cast more screen/panel time than ur Main Cast, otherwise u turn ur series into something like Bleach, where they have over 26 support characters and with some of them more relevant than the series main cast.

If we go beyond EoZ, its clear Pan and Uub will be part of the Main Cast. Piccolo might still be relevant, as a mentor for the youngters.

[IGhostUlt]

I dont know how people can defend the lack of character usage in Super. That is obviously a huge problem