Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

[dhaval_dongre]

I rewatched Trunks vs Perfect Cell and it's not even comparable to Goku vs Botamo as it's much better. Goku vs Botamo is incredibly bad, I don't think there's a single battle in all the Dragon Ball franchise that is as bad as that is. It's quite a shame they didn't want to fix it for the Blu-Ray release. At least Botamo is a very forgettable character, had Goku vs Hit been so badly animated many more people would have stopped watching the show.

As of now though, the animation is getting a lot better but I still dislike how off-model the art is sometimes (except for Black)
And the sequence of Goku and Black punching each others was really bad and they even got Goku's SSJ2 hair wrong on that part. They also got his hair wrong when he was against Trunks and they could have done a better job with SSJ2 Trunks' hair.

With the exception of a few Yashima shots, the art and animation has been fairly decent in this arc. This has been mainly possible because of the fact that they added a considerable amount of staff in the middle of the U6 arc. The majority of them were working on Precure and World Trigger. Don't know about Precure but World Trigger has ended. Moreover they are also outsourcing KA to Studio Wanpack, which is a fairly reputed studio. If I am not mistaken, they have worked on 3 episodes so far - some episode during the U6 arc, ep.44 and 51. I hope they are heavily involved down the road. The fight between Black and Goku was nothing special but it was pretty much ok/decent. I thought it was gonna be a huge battle but it turned out to be a small fight which was mainly just some exposition far Black's character.

[Ajay]

For me, Grade III Trunks versus Cell is the worst looking fight "in the history of Dragon Ball." Barely any animation, consistently off-model drawings, everyone's randomly bulkier than the bulkiest of bulky they should be, chins are enormous, the shading went to crap, blah blah blah.

Are you talking about #165? I mean, don't get me wrong, it's not well animated by any stretch of the imagination, but I wouldn't say it's all that close to the level of awful found in episode 24 and 33. I can definitely see why it would be a contender, though.

Lots of stills, as you said, and Uchiyama's corrections running rampant; Cell's power-up looks absolutely dreadful. I think prior to Super, I would have absolutely agreed with you, but I do think there's a lot of stuff in here that puts it far above those Super episodes.

For example, the episode opens with some decent enough movement following the stills. It begins a little stiff, but that part at the end is nice, and I've seen it used in some Taiichiro Ohara MADs.

[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

Trunks' power-up lacks detail, and is clearly not on-model, but suddenly you get some interesting background animation coming in:

[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

The more I watch, the more I'm seeing action that's really not too bad. It's very animated, even if it's drastically off-model, and not in a nice way.

[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

Heck, Goku's power-up in the episode, though not related to the Trunks and Cell fight, has some really cool shading going on:

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Anyway, back to the fight: I think it just feels much more dynamic than the disasterpieces found in the aforementioned Super episodes. Those episodes are not only poorly drawn, but feature zero good movement, a lack of animation, and almost zero redeemable features. #33 has a nice power-up and one nice scene after the credit, but after that, there's pretty much nothing worthwhile.

(God, I hope you were talking about this episode, otherwise I just wasted a load of time)

==

This title belongs to Episode 5, mate.

Episode 5 hasn't been the worst episode of Super for a long time now, and I really wish fans would drop it. It sticks in people's minds because it was the first instance of a truly terrible episode, but if you look at the episodes previously mentioned, you'll find much worse going on there.

With the exception of a few Ishikawa shots, the art and animation has been fairly decent in this arc.

I don't know who you mean, but you definitely don't mean Ishikawa. Possibly you mean Kitano, Toma, or Yashima? Ishikawa has yet to do any wrong on Super so far.

[Hit!!]

I feel like these corporations don't respect the fanbase and only think about money. How can you NOT fix that Goku vs Botamo fight?? I understand the schedule issues and all, but why haven't they solved that issue already?? Because they don't want to stop production, they don't want to take a break, they don't want to lose the tv slot at Fuji TV, but I'm pretty sure that I'm not alone when i say that i prefer waiting 2 months or 3 months or even 4 months, if that means that I'm gonna get a quality product, and that will benefit them in the long run, but these people don't think long term, they only want money NOW and the series suffers because of this.

[Sodhi]

They should have thought about things before episode #1 aired, now its all damage control at this point. They cant just a take a break now and break their contract with fuji tv(why would any business do that?) plus not only that but even if the series does take a long break, animators would have to leave SUper and work on something else, because they have projects other than Super, and animators need food.

[dhaval_dongre]

With the exception of a few Ishikawa shots, the art and animation has been fairly decent in this arc.

I don't know who you mean, but you definitely don't mean Ishikawa. Possibly you mean Kitano, Toma, or Yashima? Ishikawa has yet to do any wrong on Super so far.

Ya I actually meant Yashima. I got confused between both of them. Oh boy, I might have also possibly messed up their roles in my previous comments (lol). I also wanted to criticize Kitano like always, but his episode was better than all his previous works with the exception of #1, so I was a bit generous on him this time around.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Re The summoning I really don't see anything wrong there hardly group that in the Pooh fight.

[Avok]

Re The summoning I really don't see anything wrong there hardly group that in the Pooh fight.

What?

[emperior]

As of now though, the animation is getting a lot better but I still dislike how off-model the art is sometimes (except for Black)
And the sequence of Goku and Black punching each others was really bad and they even got Goku's SSJ2 hair wrong on that part. They also got his hair wrong when he was against Trunks and they could have done a better job with SSJ2 Trunks' hair.

When you say the scene of Goku and Black punching eachother do you mean when they clashed fists? I honestly thought that was one of the best parts of that fight.

I was talking about the scene when they punch eachothers for a few seconds and Goku's hair is SSJ1. That looked very bad to me.

It's from minute 2:00 to 2:05. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gD6M43X01EY
Sure, it's not that bad, but it just didn't feel good and the fact they got Goku's hair wrong AGAIN is getting annoying.

[Hit!!]

They should have thought about things before episode #1 aired, now its all damage control at this point. They cant just a take a break now and break their contract with fuji tv(why would any business do that?) plus not only that but even if the series does take a long break, animators would have to leave SUper and work on something else, because they have projects other than Super, and animators need food.

They don't have to break the contract, there's something called renegotiation.

By the way, i have a feeling episode 53 won't be airing this week either because right now i just heard on the radio that there was a tragic terrorist attack in Japan just a few minutes ago and you know that in a country such as Japan where there is basically 0 crime, this is a big deal.

[Sodhi]

They should have thought about things before episode #1 aired, now its all damage control at this point. They cant just a take a break now and break their contract with fuji tv(why would any business do that?) plus not only that but even if the series does take a long break, animators would have to leave SUper and work on something else, because they have projects other than Super, and animators need food.

They don't have to break the contract, there's something called renegotiation.

Hows that gonna help?. Read the full comment first before responding to one sentence. Thank you
Edit: Thats terrible news. Everyday some bullcrap happens in the world these days.

[Alee9977]

As of now though, the animation is getting a lot better but I still dislike how off-model the art is sometimes (except for Black)
And the sequence of Goku and Black punching each others was really bad and they even got Goku's SSJ2 hair wrong on that part. They also got his hair wrong when he was against Trunks and they could have done a better job with SSJ2 Trunks' hair.

When you say the scene of Goku and Black punching eachother do you mean when they clashed fists? I honestly thought that was one of the best parts of that fight.

I was talking about the scene when they punch eachothers for a few seconds and Goku's hair is SSJ1. That looked very bad to me.

It's from minute 2:00 to 2:05. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gD6M43X01EY
Sure, it's not that bad, but it just didn't feel good and the fact they got Goku's hair wrong AGAIN is getting annoying.

I think that is from Shimanuki right?
Yeah, it was really bad, it reminded me some scenes from Goku vs Frieza fight in Super.
I mean, the Goku vs Black fight was going really good until that moment.
Also it's not the first time they got messed up with the hairs, in the Majin Vegeta vs Goku SSJ2 fight Goku had his SSJ1 hair almost all the time.

[Ajay]

Here's the deal with that Shimanuki shot:

Shimanuki was an assistant supervisor on the episode and wasn't credited for key animation. That shot isn't inbetweened whatsoever, which is why it's so damn stiff. Go through frame by frame, it's just going post-to-pose.

There're a number of reasons this could have happened, but it's likely that an animator ran out of time and couldn't complete his cut before the due date, or the finished work was so bad that Shimanuki redid the entire thing from scratch.

As for why the hair's wrong in each of those episodes (Kuroyanagi and Shimanuki's cuts), I get the feeling their presence on the episode was quite a late addition, so they probably weren't given a full rundown. The fact that Shimanuki's touch is felt in only two scenes is pretty telling, not to mention how rough Kuroyanagi's work was considering his usual level of output.

I mean, perhaps they just got it wrong, that's always a possibility, but the contents of episodes point more towards the above than anything else, I suppose.

[StrawHatPatriot]

<giant post about Z Ep #165 snipped>

Hell, you say it's off-model, but even then, those Trunks gifs have nice animation and more importantly the faces look good and consistent.

That's been the biggest issue with Super so far. The characters aren't drawn consistently in the same episode, and their faces aren't even drawn like Dragon Ball characters sometimes. I think it was the last episode or the episode before where Bulma just looked downright strange.

the actual animation of Super would be less noticeable if they simply improved the drawings. episode 5 is a perfect example of that.

The lighting doesn't help either though. Ultimate Tenkaichi's anime cutscenes look closer to the original series due to the lighting being more consistent with the series.

[samuo2]

They didn't change the most awful animated fight in the history of Dragon Ball? What an insult to the fans. I was really hoping they do that in the blu-ray.

This title belongs to Episode 5, mate.

If this doesn't look "Dragon Ballesque" for you, you can't be helped.

For Shimanuki's cuts: it doesn't look as good as currently but it was hugely enough, especially if, like Ajay said, it's a last-minute add.

[PMD]

I, uh, WOULD encourage folks to perhaps not be so overdramatic and hyperbolic . If you're going to be, you better back that up with more than just a single sentence...!

I think in this case I don't need to say so many more about Botamo vs Goku, because we all know that scene is awful and people said enough already. No point to back anything up with anything. That scene is awful, period.

And yes, I think is the worst fight in terms of animation in the entire franchise, ever. That's not being "overdramatic", it's just an opinion and you're not agree, just that.

Regarding Grade III Trunks vs Cell, I think is not even close, because the bad animation is just a couple of seconds of a different episode. Overall, that fight is pretty cool, watchable. Botamo vs Goku is just terrible.

They didn't change the most awful animated fight in the history of Dragon Ball? What an insult to the fans. I was really hoping they do that in the blu-ray.

This title belongs to Episode 5, mate.

Disagree, because Tate.

[nite_jay]

I definitely think the blu-ray version of episode 5 is a pretty solid fight, especially the SSJ3 part. I also know that it will undoubtly be hated amongst a lot of the fanbase too though, but I can understand why.

[Anime Kitten]

I've decided that Ishikawa is my favorite, with Tate coming as a close second. I really like how Ishikawa makes them look young. It's an art style that I'd like to follow one day.

[JulieYBM]

I've always thought Dragon Ball Z Episode #164 was pretty bad. It's got a good on-model shots, but it otherwise very stiffly animated. Obara's work in Episode #165 is much better, even if Uchiyama has screwed it up.

[dhaval_dongre]

Obara's work in Episode #165 is much better, even if Uchiyama has screwed it up.

It reminds me of a certain character from a well known fantasy series which gets constantly delayed all the time.

[samuo2]

I've decided that Ishikawa is my favorite, with Tate coming as a close second. I really like how Ishikawa makes them look young. It's an art style that I'd like to follow one day.

Remind me, Ishikawa is the one who has very detailled characters but not a this good animation right ? The exemple which come in my mind when I hear about him is the Vegeta/Frost fight am I right ?