Your Problem(s) with DragonBall Super

[sintzu]

Imagine a series that takes place after End of Z and has Goku in an almost Roshi type mentor role to Pan, Uub, and maybe even Goten and Trunks. It would be great! Sadly though it will probably never happen.

Or it could be like young justice where Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo & Tien are mentoring who you mentioned and maybe one or 2 more.

Gohan could be somewhere in the middle, he could be giving them instructions like his father and the others but he'll also be still learning from them.

There's a lot of story potential with the new generation but unfortunately the suits only care about selling merchandise and to them it can't be done without Goku being front and center.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

The way I see it, DBS is likely to continue after EoZ or even change some things about that ending, I mean, wasn't Toriyama unhappy with that ending?.
There are a lot of possibilities since the introduction of the 12 universes and Toriyama and Toei will take adventage of this.

Super starting pre-EoZ makes sense and was a wise decision but that this point the most sensible approach I think would be to ignore EoZ and over-write it. The longer Super goes on the harder things falling inline with EoZ become, plus it gives them greater creative control by ignoring it.

No. A wise decision would be to go past EoZ with a time skip. I don't like the ending much at all, but flat out ignoring it is a stupid idea.

That would not work because a) BoG and Resurrection "F" only touched on the surface about all this gods stuff they can't just drop all that b) going past EoZ timeskip or not is going to tread over GT. They still make money off GT to this day c) Toriyama may very well not be comfortable with going past EoZ d) Everyone is their prime, starting post EoZ where everyone is old wouldn't be much of an attraction for a new series would it? Super. e) Ignoring EoZ isn't stupid they could get to a similar point where Goku goes and trains Uub but honestly with all this gods stuff and universe tournaments, would Goku really be excited to train Uub who is the re-incarnation of Buu and probably won't reach the heights of gods I am guessing, like I said EoZ is becoming harder and harder sell. EoZ was essentially about the next generations Super go do that in any way possible it see's fit.

[sintzu]

With all this gods stuff and universe tournaments, would Goku really be excited to train Uub who is the re-incarnation of Buu and probably won't reach the heights of gods ?

The new stories explain why he was excited to train him, Freeza.

If Freeza was able to get as strong as he did in 4 months then how strong can Buu's reincarnation get after training with someone who's been trained by Whis ?

[jplaya2023]

my biggest issues with super is lack of a consistent power scaling model.

to make it simple AT can just group people by how much destruction they can cause... the below for example

moon buster
Roshi

planet buster
yamcha

multiple planet buster
tien
krilian

solar system buster
piccolo

galaxy buster
ssj1 gotenks

universe buster
ssj red goku

multi universe buster
ssj blue goku and vegeta

etc...

My second biggest issue is the lack of supportive characters having any kind of shine at all. AT needs to power piccolo up so that he can remain relevant. The kids need to take their training seriously so they can be the earths protectors one day. Gohan needs to fight again. etc.. et..

[namekiansaiyan]

my biggest issues with super is lack of a consistent power scaling model.

to make it simple AT can just group people by how much destruction they can cause... the below for example

moon buster
Roshi

planet buster
yamcha

multiple planet buster
tien
krilian

solar system buster
piccolo

galaxy buster
ssj1 gotenks

universe buster
ssj red goku

multi universe buster
ssj blue goku and vegeta

etc...

My second biggest issue is the lack of supportive characters having any kind of shine at all. AT needs to power piccolo up so that he can remain relevant. The kids need to take their training seriously so they can be the earths protectors one day. Gohan needs to fight again. etc.. et..

Piccolo's power up almost writes itself as everyone has though of Namekian God by now.

[jplaya2023]

Super starting pre-EoZ makes sense and was a wise decision but that this point the most sensible approach I think would be to ignore EoZ and over-write it. The longer Super goes on the harder things falling inline with EoZ become, plus it gives them greater creative control by ignoring it.

No. A wise decision would be to go past EoZ with a time skip. I don't like the ending much at all, but flat out ignoring it is a stupid idea.

That would not work because a) BoG and Resurrection "F" only touched on the surface about all this gods stuff they can't just drop all that b) going past EoZ timeskip or not is going to tread over GT. They still make money off GT to this day c) Toriyama may very well not be comfortable with going past EoZ d) Everyone is their prime, starting post EoZ where everyone is old wouldn't be much of an attraction for a new series would it? Super. e) Ignoring EoZ isn't stupid they could get to a similar point where Goku goes and trains Uub but honestly with all this gods stuff and universe tournaments, would Goku really be excited to train Uub who is the re-incarnation of Buu and probably won't reach the heights of gods I am guessing, like I said EoZ is becoming harder and harder sell. EoZ was essentially about the next generations Super go do that in any way possible it see's fit.

i believe EOZ is being retconned. My guess is they will re release chapters that rewrite EOZ

[Baggie_Saiyan]

With all this gods stuff and universe tournaments, would Goku really be excited to train Uub who is the re-incarnation of Buu and probably won't reach the heights of gods ?

The new stories explain why he was excited to train him, Freeza.

If Freeza was able to get as strong as he did in 4 months then how strong can Buu's reincarnation get after training with someone who's been trained by Whis ?

Since Buu was man made surely he won't have anything past the power we witnessed in the Buu arc, so surely that is most Uub will ever reach?

[sintzu]

Since Buu was man made...

How did Bibbidi make Majin Boo? What process was there, what were Boo’s ingredients, etc…

Though in the manga Kaiōshin said that Bibbidi made him, the truth is that one called “Boo” was not actually created by Bididi, but has existed since time immemorial. He cycled between rampages and long hibernation. During numerous iterations of this cycle, he absorbed the evil elements of mankind, becoming steadily more violent. Bibbidi merely knew the means of calling Boo from out of his long slumber. Since the current Boo is a slightly different life-form due to the changes brought about when the evil Boo was expelled, it’s not known whether he’ll still go into long hibernation.

[Lord Frieza]

With all this gods stuff and universe tournaments, would Goku really be excited to train Uub who is the re-incarnation of Buu and probably won't reach the heights of gods ?

The new stories explain why he was excited to train him, Freeza.

If Freeza was able to get as strong as he did in 4 months then how strong can Buu's reincarnation get after training with someone who's been trained by Whis ?

Nowhere if the GT fanboy get their way and Super and GT are in the same universe.

[sintzu]

Nowhere if the GT fanboy get their way and Super and GT are in the same universe.

It seems like Toriyama only takes his work into account while writing new stories so that won't happen as long as he's the main writer.

[perucho1990]

The way I see it, DBS is likely to continue after EoZ or even change some things about that ending, I mean, wasn't Toriyama unhappy with that ending?.
There are a lot of possibilities since the introduction of the 12 universes and Toriyama and Toei will take adventage of this.

Super starting pre-EoZ makes sense and was a wise decision but that this point the most sensible approach I think would be to ignore EoZ and over-write it. The longer Super goes on the harder things falling inline with EoZ become, plus it gives them greater creative control by ignoring it.

We might get to see EoZ but happening in another alternative, and thats due to the events that happened in the Mirai Trunks Arc.

In EoZ Tori said Gohan was the strongest nonfused character in the series, but DBS Gohan isnt even close to that.., meaning overwritting EoZ has already started it..

We might get even more tweaks for Pan and Uub...

[sintzu]

In EoZ Tori said Gohan was the strongest nonfused character in the series.

That was just a rumor.

[nite_jay]

Besides the iffy animation, the only real problems I have with the show is the pacing and lack of tension so far. The stories so far have either been too fast or slow paced and the only time I got excited for where thing were going next was the Hit fight.

[SSJ Human]

They're going to say EOZ was all a dream.

[SaiyanZ]

Mainly Goku being way more childlike and stupid than he actually is, and how the writers are going out of their way (initially) to make Vegeta constantly upstage Goku (an example which I posted in an earlier thread was right before Vegeta beat up Freeza, when he said "I'm not as naive as he is", only to zoom in on the gang's face when he said that). Vegeta's characterization with the whole Saiyan pride thing against Cabbe is ridiculous as well considering he doesn't care about them. The person who places the music at points in the episode has no sense of how to do so and how to build appropriate tension either (though I felt last ep did not do this, I thought it was great). Better audio designer is needed too. Also, about the new color designer, thank God, the other guy was horrible. Sunrise's anime always has beautiful colors.

Although I do agree with you on almost everything you said, I do see great character development in the Vegeta v. Cabbe fight. We actually see that Vegeta was actually willing to train a stranger Saiyan after hearing about Cabbe's speech about saving others in his universe. This actually showed a sympathetic side to Vegeta's character that Z hasn't already shown us. I'm quite certain that the old Vegeta from Z would never bring himself to do that due to his silly pride.

I suppose, but I don't see it as character development as in he's changed in a way we've never seen before, I see it as another example of Vegeta's turn of character in the Buu arc. I think the fact that these Saiyans aren't warlike like their U7 counterparts explains why Vegeta was willing to train him, but to care so much about pride even after going Majin is a little contradictory imo.

[namekiansaiyan]

They're going to say EOZ was all a dream.

That would be good actually.

[TheMikado]

They're going to say EOZ was all a dream.

That would be good actually.

It would kind of being easier to make Super be all a dream/retconned through time manipulation since within the Super series time manipulation has now taken a major part in 3 of its 4 arcs and God powers/universes are now relevant all throughout the series. Basically the get to the end of Super and the Omni-king rewinds time in their universe to where Goku never met Beerus.

[namekiansaiyan]

They're going to say EOZ was all a dream.

That would be good actually.

It would kind of being easier to make Super be all a dream/retconned through time manipulation since within the Super series time manipulation has now taken a major part in 3 of its 4 arcs and God powers/universes are now relevant all throughout the series. Basically the get to the end of Super and the Omni-king rewinds time in their universe to where Goku never met Beerus.

We need to go past the end of Z so we have no restrictions in Dragon Ball Super and the end of Z only introduces Uub anyway.

[sintzu]

Basically the get to the end of Super and the Omni-king rewinds time in their universe to where Goku never met Beerus.

That would make the whole adventure feel like a complete waste of time so hopefully that won't happen.

[TheMikado]

Why does it need to? Or do you mean you want it?

Also if they just rewind time so that it never happened why would it matter if it went past EoZ anyway? Having the end of Super be that they rewind it so that it never happened makes everyone happy by allowing it to go past the EoZ while still keeping it intact as "canon".