900 Minutes of Uncut Action, DBZ Season 1 Arrives

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MajinVejitaXV
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Post by MajinVejitaXV » Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:10 pm

Victator Supreme wrote:No I wouldn't. But thats not the case now is it?
Ah. So, the visual format is important to you. So, the question is, how much of the visual can be taken before you complain?

For me, 15% is more than enough. Especially when what is given in return is practically worthless. Funny how people dismiss the cropped portions as "hair and feets lol" when the gained footage is...grass and rocks. Maybe a cloud.
But the idea of a Dragonball radio serial is intriguing.
Hm, I dunno if there are any for DragonBall, but Drama CD's are commonplace in Japan.

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Post by Pieter » Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:22 pm

MajinVejitaXV wrote:
Pieter wrote:As I've said before, the introductions aren't good comparison material because even the dbox makers messed with it, unlike episode footage.
Uh...which DragonBoxes are you watching? O_o;;

-Corey
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/ ... 10_new.jpg

This is from the *creditless* version of the opening animation.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/ ... isode2.jpg

This is how they are in episode. They messed with its color temperature.

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Post by Victator Supreme » Tue Mar 06, 2007 8:44 pm

Ah. So, the visual format is important to you. So, the question is, how much of the visual can be taken before you complain?

For me, 15% is more than enough. Especially when what is given in return is practically worthless. Funny how people dismiss the cropped portions as "hair and feets lol" when the gained footage is...grass and rocks. Maybe a cloud.
I'm not dismissing it. My first post since the dvd was released, was about the cropping being a serious concern.

Like I said I understand anybody being mad about it and not buying the set. But I can not understand treating those who buy it like collaborators. Which you have not done. You have been a civil reasonable dude.

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Post by BrollysKin » Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:07 pm

Pieter wrote:
MajinVejitaXV wrote:
Pieter wrote:As I've said before, the introductions aren't good comparison material because even the dbox makers messed with it, unlike episode footage.
Uh...which DragonBoxes are you watching? O_o;;

-Corey
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/ ... 10_new.jpg

This is from the *creditless* version of the opening animation.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/ ... isode2.jpg

This is how they are in episode. They messed with its color temperature.
But why are there subs on it? The Dragonbox has no subs.
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Post by Acid_Reign » Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:10 pm

BrollysKin wrote:But why are there subs on it? The Dragonbox has no subs.
Does "IPPAI OPPAI" mean anything to you in English? :P

They aren't subs. They're sing-along captions.

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Post by Conan the SSJ » Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:13 pm

BrollysKin wrote:But why are there subs on it? The Dragonbox has no subs.
Those are "hardcoded" so to speak to appear with the opening credits in every episode, they're not part of a subtitle track. FUNi's masters of both original DragonBall and DBZ, however, only contain textless versions of the openings (they didn't even get the second DB opening and the original Cha-La sequence for DBZ episodes 1-21 isn't an option). You'll notice these "subs" with the GT openings on FUNi's DVDs as well, as FUNi got those masters completely untouched.
Last edited by Conan the SSJ on Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
14 years later

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Post by Undercooked Sausage » Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:13 pm

FDLink wrote:
Undercooked Sausage wrote:Obviously most people here would prefer a 4:3 version. However, we're not going to get one regardless of how many fanboys complain. Reason being is that organizing a boycott of this boxset in order to get the message out to FUNI that what they are giving us is insufficient is far beyond the ability of the hardcore DBZ fanbase and that the majority of us would rather spend 30 dollars on a cropped season one than try and make a demand.

Reprimanding people who bought the season boxset is a complete waste of time. Realistically, this is the best we'll get from FUNimation. It's a hopeless battle to fight.
See, this is the attitude that pisses me off. This attitude also happens to be shared by a signifcant number at these very forums, which is extremely disheartening. Those of you who buy this set while hoping for a 4:3 one are just like all those small-town folk who bitch about a Wal-Mart opening in their town, but shop there anyway just because "well, it's so durn cheap!"

It is NOT a hopeless battle. We just need people to have a little self-control and take some responsibility. The DB fan community have knocked some sense into FUNi numerous times in the past (Ginyu/Trunks DVDs, Japanese voices in DBZ games, original music in DB dub, original music in new DBZ dub) all because we did what we do best: bitch until we're blue in the face.

Granted, we haven't always won, but with enough pressure, I think even FUNi can be convinced that their only releasing a widescreen version of the show is dividing up their potential market.
Actually the price of this boxset was hardly any relevance to me, I've already spent hundreds of dollars on Dragonball merchandise and am always willing to spend more. I've also not set foot in a Wal-Mart since 1992, but hey, assumptions always make an argument extremely respectable and valid.

Anyway, you can continue believing and I wish you were right, and I admire your bravado. I just don't think it will happen from what I've seen on the market. It's all about the Benjamins.

FUNi will release a full-screen release if they stand to make a profit.

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Post by ETC123 » Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:24 pm

YOu get to a point with dimwits that its the only viable option.
You missed one out- you could always prove me wrong, but since you can;t do that, you might as well turn to personal insults and calling me stupid, despite the fact that you can't prove me wrong.
When you go around comparing people who buy a cheap dvd set to collaborators, you can't help but get that impression.
That's quite a stretch there. God knows what sort of logic you used to arrive to that conclusion. I mean, I don't call people collaboraters, I call in to account their standards, I question why they allow this to happen. FUNimation are perfectly capable of producing cheap, 4:3 DBZ, if not cheaper had they not been run through a DVNR machine. Do you want an argument that appeals to your wallet? Think about it, if FUNimation hadn't gone and done what they did, there would be a possibility of it being cheaper. I mean, it's doubtful, but there you go.
When dealing with your type, nothing else really resonates, the way good old fashion profanity does.
My type being what, those who are calling you in to question, or those who are right? Clarify for me, please.
But no I'm not turning tricks on Main street, or selling scholl childen tainted milk. I'm buying a dvd set of questionable video quality, but is balanced out by sheer episode number and audio options.
Episodes and audio options that are not an excuse for a 16:9 set which has possibly incurred a higher price as it is. But I've told you repeatedly before about this, so I don't feel the need to go on about it again.

If all that is important to you people is the story, then stick to the Manga. It'll save you time, hassle, and will be more "the way it was meant to be seen" than the Anime will ever be.

As I've said, if you really loved DBZ, you wouldn't want a hacked or mangled product, despite how cheap it was. Standards, principles, nblahblah[/brokenrecord]

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Post by Victator Supreme » Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:38 pm

I do not want a mangled product. But guess what thats the only way I can watch the show right now.


My type being what, those who are calling you in to question, or those who are right? Clarify for me, please.
You forgot mouth breathing maudlin dimwit.
That's quite a stretch there. God knows what sort of logic you used to arrive to that conclusion. I mean, I don't call people collaboraters, I call in to account their standards, I question why they allow this to happen. FUNimation are perfectly capable of producing cheap, 4:3 DBZ, if not cheaper had they not been run through a DVNR machine. Do you want an argument that appeals to your wallet? Think about it, if FUNimation hadn't gone and done what they did, there would be a possibility of it being cheaper. I mean, it's doubtful, but there you go.
Well if my aunt had testicles, she would be my uncle. Here are the options I am being presented with by this forum, if I want to watch DBZ, since downloading is frowned upon.

A: Pay an ungodly amount for the Dragonbox dvd sets.

B: Hunt thru Ebay and bargin nins for the old dvd release.

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Post by ETC123 » Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:44 pm

Victator Supreme wrote:I do not want a mangled product. But guess what thats the only way I can watch the show right now.
Exactly, which is why you should I dunno, wait for a proper version. Demand one. Not so easily give in, maybe?
You forgot mouth breathing maudlin dimwit.
Ur A QT;) I want to keep you in a box and stroke you all day long and feed you lovehearts all day long
Well if my aunt had testicles, she would be my uncle.
I don't want to know about your strange fantasies, but getting on to the point here-
Here are the options I am being presented with by this forum, if I want to watch DBZ, since downloading is frowned upon.

A: Pay an ungodly amount for the Dragonbox dvd sets.

B: Hunt thru Ebay and bargin nins for the old dvd release.
3. Buy the HK R3 release, which actually ends up being pretty cheap

Z. Buy the Spanish release.

@#$!. Or, finally, don't buy, as I said, the first piece of crap out there, possibly hoping FUNimation will mend its ways, when it won't because you're plugging away at a vastly inferior release.

I think we need to reevaluate who the dullard here is, because it's certianly not me. Subsequently you do not have to reply to me anymore, but seriously, don't feel the need to post a "YEAH SURE ILL IGNORE YOU BUT ONLY CUZ I WANT TO" thinking you've 'won' an internet argument. We're all losers here (take that in one of many ways, but never seriously, guys ;) ).

Ammendment- Yes, downloading is frowned apon here, but it's not like they can honestly stop you. However, when you begint o brag about downloads it does get a bit tiresome, from what I can tell from other forums.

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Post by Taku128 » Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:40 am

ETC, while your at it ripping anyone who supports this boxset a new asshole, could you wail on the people here? They don't even know why this boxset is wrong to begin with. They just say "OMG CUL WIDESCREEN!" and gobble it up.
­

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Post by DBW » Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:13 am

Pieter wrote: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/ ... 10_new.jpg

This is from the *creditless* version of the opening animation.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/ ... isode2.jpg

This is how they are in episode. They messed with its color temperature.
Since those are from my photobucket account, I may as well address them...

The first shot is from the raw 16mm film and the second is from in-episode content as you mentioned, but the color discrepancy was not caused by the DVD remastering. The credit/lyric overlays is what distorted the color of the original animation. This is just the way the show was made, and has nothing to do with the remastering process (just as the in-episode openings/endings are slightly zoomed in compared to the clean 16mm footage).

A good example of this is when you're watching an old animated show, and something is about to break off from a static object (I dunno, a piece of a cliff is gonna break off). Most of the time you can see exactly where something will break because the colors are slightly off. This isn't because the colorist is an idiot, it's because when you layer cels the colors become more and more distorted. I don't know exactly what process they used for these particular credits, but it obviously darkened the colors quite a bit.
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Post by Victator Supreme » Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:34 am

Exactly, which is why you should I dunno, wait for a proper version. Demand one. Not so easily give in, maybe?
I don't really care that much. I doubt there is any TV show that would elicit that kind of reaction. Maybe the Simpsons, because it would ruin sight gags. But I certainly would not act like people were collaborators for buying it.
Ur A QT;) I want to keep you in a box and stroke you all day long and feed you lovehearts all day long
You are speaking in an African clicking language now.

I don't want to know about your strange fantasies, but getting on to the point here-
If ifs and nuts were candy and nuts, it would be Christmas everyday.

3. Buy the HK R3 release, which actually ends up being pretty cheap

Z. Buy the Spanish release.

@#$!. Or, finally, don't buy, as I said, the first piece of crap out there, possibly hoping FUNimation will mend its ways, when it won't because you're plugging away at a vastly inferior release.
Why should I do so. Do the HKdvds have quality subs, or the new dub? Ditto the spanish releases. Funimation tends to always fix these things, why should this be any different? Its not like DBZ didn't sale the other times they fucked up, but they still fixed things.

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Post by EricM » Wed Mar 07, 2007 3:30 am

MajinVejitaXV wrote:
EricM wrote:
nathantheguitarist wrote:Now what's your point again? :roll:
Well some people say that the extra 5% on the side was pointless because it gets cutoff with overscan anyway. I'm saying with some widescreen TVs you can get the extra 5% on the sides, so it looks slightly less retarded.
Not really. You can go into service menus (which void your warranty, btw) and turn off/decrease overscan, however it doesn't change the fact that the unadulterated image from FUNimation's DVDs have a net 15% loss of image (20% lost prior to overscan in terms of vertical resolution and 5% gained horizontally). My point on the podcast was that my TV, which is admittedly high-end (Pioneer Premier PRO-910HD) has 2.5% overscan from factory on all sides, so I lose 25% vertically and gain nothing horizontally compared to the original 4:3 print. Only reason I brought it up is because FUNimation tried poorly to sell the widescreen idea by using overscan as justification. Too bad we're not retarded, or it might have worked.

BTW, posting pictures off your TV is useless since all pictures posted here have been from PowerDVD or another program which has no overscan to begin with.

-Corey
Well I thought I'd just put up some shots oh how Funi intended people to watch it for people to examine, just for the sake of it.

There's a few scenery shots, with the extended imagery on the sides, and nothing important chopped off the top and bottom that look quite elegant in widescreen. Gives the shows a very nice cinematic look.

BTW, I'm not completely defending the set, I'd just like to say it doesn't look stupid 100% of the time.

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Post by Undercooked Sausage » Wed Mar 07, 2007 3:38 am

ETC123 is like my new favorite poster on this forum. He's the only one on here who knows how to board hard. Good stuff.

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Post by Victator Supreme » Wed Mar 07, 2007 5:40 am

Undercooked Sausage wrote:ETC123 is like my new favorite poster on this forum. He's the only one on here who knows how to board hard. Good stuff.
No wonder you are undercooked.

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Post by ETC123 » Wed Mar 07, 2007 7:44 am

Victator Supreme wrote: Post
I hate to say this, even if you do realise I'm right one day, there is still no reasoning with a cheapskate.

Youtube is the sort ofplace where rationale and common sense go to die, so I wouldn't bother with it just for the moment. I might move over on to FUNimation's forums but I dunno.

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Post by Pieter » Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:09 am

DBW wrote:
Pieter wrote: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/ ... 10_new.jpg

This is from the *creditless* version of the opening animation.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/ ... isode2.jpg

This is how they are in episode. They messed with its color temperature.
Since those are from my photobucket account, I may as well address them...

The first shot is from the raw 16mm film and the second is from in-episode content as you mentioned, but the color discrepancy was not caused by the DVD remastering. The credit/lyric overlays is what distorted the color of the original animation. This is just the way the show was made, and has nothing to do with the remastering process (just as the in-episode openings/endings are slightly zoomed in compared to the clean 16mm footage).

A good example of this is when you're watching an old animated show, and something is about to break off from a static object (I dunno, a piece of a cliff is gonna break off). Most of the time you can see exactly where something will break because the colors are slightly off. This isn't because the colorist is an idiot, it's because when you layer cels the colors become more and more distorted. I don't know exactly what process they used for these particular credits, but it obviously darkened the colors quite a bit.
Hey, I got them from an old post of yours that's why it's your account. I guessed that the difference was inflicted by the makers because Funimation's intro's always look more like the creditless version.

The creditless version does look a lot better. The color temperature in-episode is way too blue-ish, but I hope that this is only true for the introduction.

I showed this because I think that comparing the two introductions isn't very representative for the overall product. http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/t ... ibo/55.png In this shot for example Season 1 wins, because the dbox looks way too blue-ish.

For the guy asking for a good comparison, here's a shot I made earlier:
http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/5130/compare1ph8.jpg

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Post by MajinVejitaXV » Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:20 am

Victator Supreme wrote:I don't really care that much. I doubt there is any TV show that would elicit that kind of reaction.
Hm...you're new to the internet, aren't you?

There have been quite a few shows that I've seen elicit a reaction when something was changed for DVD release, be it aspect ratio, music or any number of other things. See, the companies are marketing stuff to us, the consumers. If they fuck up and we're vocal, they change it. People who take the apathetic approach, such as you seem to be doing, and try to undermine the efforts of those who would work for a better product are the reason FUNimation will continue to make these shitty sets.
If ifs and nuts were candy and nuts, it would be Christmas everyday.
Dude, just...stop. Please. It doesn't help your case when you mess up a common saying.

It's "If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas," btw.
Funimation tends to always fix these things, why should this be any different?
Because they've already told us the telecine of the series is done? With that being the case, it means their digital master is stuck in 16:9. Plus, it's had all that DVNR which makes it look like crap anyhow.

-Corey

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Post by Mystery Person X » Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:42 am

Victator Supreme wrote:I doubt there is any TV show that would elicit that kind of reaction.
Well, people complained about Kung Fu season 1 being cropped to widescreen and it (at least) got fixed for season 2.

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