Regarding Tao Pai Pai and Jackie Chun..

Horgus · Post by **Horgus** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:30 pm

Which of the two are stronger?

I'd like to think that, given Jackie's advanced age, he would have been a bit weaker physically speaking, but he was an experienced master and had excellent offense and defense.

On the other hand, Tao basically beats Goku almost to death in their encounter, which does say a lot.

I lean towards Chun personally, given that in their fight Chun blew up the MOON after a prolonged encounter and still got up to fight. Tao was a killer, and Chun was simply fighting to win, not kill.

What do you think?

Pieter · Post by **Pieter** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:33 pm

Horgus wrote:Which of the two are stronger?

I'd like to think that, given Jackie's advanced age, he would have been a bit weaker physically speaking, but he was an experienced master and had excellent offense and defense.

On the other hand, Tao basically beats Goku almost to death in their encounter, which does say a lot.

I lean towards Chun personally, given that in their fight Chun blew up the MOON after a prolonged encounter and still got up to fight. Tao was a killer, and Chun was simply fighting to win, not kill.

What do you think?

He was very surprised to hear that Goku beat Tao Pai Pai so I think the Mercenary wins this one.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:44 pm

Pieter wrote:He was very surprised to hear that Goku beat Tao Pai Pai so I think the Mercenary wins this one.

That may've just been hearing that Goku was that powerful.

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:13 pm

Meh, the same Goku who matched evenly with Jackie was decimated by Taopaipai in seconds...

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:25 pm

Duo wrote:Meh, the same Goku who matched evenly with Jackie was decimated by Taopaipai in seconds...

And then Roshi nearly matches a Tien that is equal to Goku.

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:38 pm

Rocketman wrote:
Duo wrote:Meh, the same Goku who matched evenly with Jackie was decimated by Taopaipai in seconds...
And then Roshi nearly matches a Tenshinhan that is equal to Goku.

A Tenshinhan whom was stated to be signifcantly holding back.

Tyro · Post by **Tyro** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:02 pm

Rocketman wrote:And then Roshi nearly matches a Tenshinhan that is equal to Goku.

But Muten Roshi had been training for three years.

Duo wrote:A Tenshinhan whom was stated to be significantly holding back.

I'm not sure he specifically meant he was holding back strength, but more so holing back techniques he'd use later. When Tenshinhan states he'd show Muten Roshi his full power, even if it was only for a second, he uses the Taio-ken technique which leads me to believe he couldn't get any stronger.

Pieter · Post by **Pieter** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:17 pm

If he could have defeated Tao Pai Pai wouldn't he have done so? He didn't want Piccolo Daimaou to be walking around on earth. Although Daimaou was a killer of a bigger magnitude they're both evil.

Conan the SSJ · Post by **Conan the SSJ** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:19 pm

Pieter wrote:If he could have defeated Tao Pai Pai wouldn't he have done so? He didn't want Piccolo Daimaou to be walking around on earth. Although Daimaou was a killer of a bigger magnitude they're both evil.

Tao Pai Pai was simply an assassin. Sure, he was evil, but he wasn't on pure evil par to Daimao. For example, he could've killed Upa after doing so to Bora, but didn't. He simply took what he was after, the Dragonball, and only killed Bora and (he thought) Goku because they stood in his way. Tao had reservations and, as crazy as this sounds, a shred of compassion to the extent where he didn't just kill who he pleased (though there was that hotel clerk). Akira Toriyama himself has stated, Piccolo Daimao is the first pure evil enemy of Goku's in the DB series.

tainted saiyan · Post by **tainted saiyan** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:06 pm

Also, Chun didn't have killing intent while fighting Goku. Still, Tao Pie Pie might have had a little bit more trouble when Roshi was in his prime.

Pieter · Post by **Pieter** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:34 pm

Tao Pai Pai was simply an assassin. Sure, he was evil, but he wasn't on pure evil par to Daimao. For example, he could've killed Upa after doing so to Bora, but didn't. He simply took what he was after, the Dragonball, and only killed Bora and (he thought) Goku because they stood in his way. Tao had reservations and, as crazy as this sounds, a shred of compassion to the extent where he didn't just kill who he pleased (though there was that hotel clerk). Akira Toriyama himself has stated, Piccolo Daimao is the first pure evil enemy of Goku's in the DB series.

He would have killed Upa if someone payed his prize. Let's not forgot Goku was just a kid as well. In fact, he tries to kill Upa once he returns for the Dragonball (for no reason) but Goku just saves him.

Anyway to directly quote Chun in the Anime: "This is unbelievable...! Tao Pai Pai was the world's greatest assasin!" with a face of terror.

Drunken Master · Post by **Drunken Master** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:20 pm

Viz.

"You didn't really...take down Taopaipai...?"

And then this -

"Taopaipai ... The legendary World's Number 1 assassin...and this lad...he...he..."

Yeah, Tao was stronger.

lets go swimming · Post by **lets go swimming** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:48 pm

1. Tenshinhan was weaker than goku

2. Chun/roshi was holding back in his fight against tenshinhan as well, but he does state he would have lost.

So roshi is in nearly the same league as goku and tenshinhan after goku trained for a couple of years following the destruction of the red ribbon army.

21st budokai roshi loses, but I don't think 22nd budokai roshi would.

Pieter · Post by **Pieter** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:59 pm

1. Tenshinhan was weaker than goku

Is that why he won?

Anyway you have some good points, he probably could have won against Tao with proper training, even though he probably isn't too sure of that himself. The problem is that he couldn't attack Tao alone, because he'd have to deal with the Crane hermit too, and his students.

Gaiash · Post by **Gaiash** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:32 pm

Pieter wrote:
1. Tenshinhan was weaker than goku
Is that why he won?

He won because Goku fell to the ground before him, the match was pretty much a tie if you ignore the ringouts.

Conan the SSJ · Post by **Conan the SSJ** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:09 pm

lets go swimming wrote:1. Tenshinhan was weaker than goku

Tien being weaker is entirely your own opinion, it isn't fact. More or less, the two were exactly equal, I believe Goku even states such after Tien tells him he'd have lost had Goku not been hit by the truck. If one appears more superior to the other, it's all because of the element of surprise regarding the techniques and style of fighting both warriors pull off during their match. It's kinda nice, considering equally matched battles seem to be a rarity in DB/Z. The only following ones I can think of are Goku/Piccolo Daimao, Piccolo/#17, and SSJ2 Goku/Majin Vegeta.

EDIT: Fixed the quoting.

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 2:07 am

But Tenshinhan himself actually states that Goku is more powerful than himself at one point during the match. Hence, he uses his Fist of Four Arms technique.

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 2:45 am

After the match as well, Ten emphasizes that he won by luck, and that Goku was the better of the two, AND that it would serve as good training motivation.

And it did...the rematch rocks.

Lavender Saiyan · Post by **Lavender Saiyan** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 2:59 am

Well, during the 21'st Budokai, Tao is much stronger. Roshi & Goku were even while Tao easily beat Goku. However during the 22'nd, Roshi. Tien, though weaker than Goku, was a match for Goku who was easily stronger than Tao at this point. Roshi matched Tien, so Roshi is much stronger than Tao at this point.

As for the side debates going on here....Goku was infact all-together better than Tien. Tien himself admitted that Goku was superior to him in everyway when fighting head to head. Even his 4-Arms technique could not win.

As for Tien Vs.Roshi, both were stated to be holding back. Roshi later states Tien probably would have won. So that leaves room for Roshi to pull it out, it's just not as likely. So they're near even.

Sorry if that post seemed kinda jumbled and rushed. It's late.

Pieter · Post by **Pieter** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 8:22 am

Taking out the Crane hermit and his students would be extra hard for Roshi, since they have Bukujutsu. So yeah, he realized this is out of his control.

Kanzenshuu

Regarding Tao Pai Pai and Jackie Chun..

Regarding Tao Pai Pai and Jackie Chun..

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