DBZ vs DBS - Animation [Comparing Objectively]

[Quantum-Kakarrotto]

Just to clarify, my point was not to ask people, "Do fans want better animation for Super" since that answer is obvious, but rather, "If Super did receive top-tier work, would it actually be appreciated considering the reaction to a lot of this stuff?"

It's, "Do fans actually want those type of visuals in a show like Dragon Ball or are they after a nostalgia trip, even if that doesn't add up to what's considered anything special by today's industry?"

I ask this because, as outlined above, reactions to unique animators like Tate and Shida have been mixed. I've seen posts about how Shida's cut in Battle of Gods is too flashy, and how 'modern beams' (Karasawa and Takahashi's work, for example) aren't 'solid' like the ones found in the original series.

All kinds of complaints about contemporary animation styles that make me wonder whether fans actually want Dragon Ball to evolve with the medium or stick to what it had back in the day. I just found it confusing since some of the same people who do say these things also ask for the series to look like X and Y, even if said series features far more abstract work than anything ever seen in Dragon Ball before.

I'm not condemning either point of view, but it's something I wonder about, and would love to see spoken about honestly. I think it would definitely help me better understand what some fans would like, since at the moment, it's all a bit confusing for me. It seems contradictory.

If Super did receive top-tier animation work, I believe it would be appreciated by fans considering when Kai was being released fans wanted the animation to look as it did in the opening and closing of the series and not have the same animation from the 90's. Same with how most fans reacted to the animation of the Episode of Bardock special when that was being released and how a majority of the fan base loved the animation along with the Yo Son Goku Special. Dragon Ball fans I think want to move on to a better animated series and leave behind what we had before.

I hope this helps answer some of your questions, unless I got your question wrong again.

EDIT: Also if a Dragon Ball series did look like X and Y, I would watch it if the coloring was a bit toned down and less flashy. It works for Pokemon but not for Dragon Ball.

[kinisking]

I'd rather have high quality drawings with "stiff" animation than simple drawings with amazing animation if I were to choose between one. But I'd rather have both in dragonBall

[nite_jay]

The opening for Kai was really lame for me. The animation was just bland and stiff. I'd rather just have consistent animation similar to episode 38.

Also, the "_______ animation style isn't for Dragonball" needs to stop imo. You can't automatically write it off because it isn't just a whole bunch of repeated frames every 3 seconds.

[Boo Machine]

I'd rather have high quality drawings with "stiff" animation than simple drawings with amazing animation if I were to choose between one. But I'd rather have both in dragonBall

I'm the exact opposite. I'd much prefer simple drawings that are well animated than pictures that look good. Like you, I'd love to have both, but if I had to pick one I'd rather see that sweet sweet movement baby.

[DragonHermit]

I'd rather have high quality drawings with "stiff" animation than simple drawings with amazing animation if I were to choose between one. But I'd rather have both in dragonBall

Only thing that bugs me with someone like Tate is the crappy faces. I can tolerate less detailed drawings, as long as the face isn't massively f'ed up.

[dbs fanboy]

I think that is nostalgia what makes the fans want the safe work.
At least those were my reasons to want that .
But after finally understanding the difference between animation and art a year ago, i really want the overexagerated animation, Tate's work is great, so if dbs had the opportunity to look like that, i would be very happy.

I've realized that i just want to see the characters on model just when they're not doing anything.

[z_cherub]

I think that is nostalgia what makes the fans want the safe work.
At least those were my reasons to want that .
But after finally understanding the difference between animation and art a year ago, i really want the overexagerated animation, Tate's work is great, so if dbs had the opportunity to look like that, i would be very happy.

I've realized that i just want to see the characters on model just when they're not doing anything.

Gotta blend/balance the two. You can't go from "safe" on model conversation scenes to off-model but pretty, fluid movement without it being too jarring to the audience.

[dbs fanboy]

I think that is nostalgia what makes the fans want the safe work.
At least those were my reasons to want that .
But after finally understanding the difference between animation and art a year ago, i really want the overexagerated animation, Tate's work is great, so if dbs had the opportunity to look like that, i would be very happy.

I've realized that i just want to see the characters on model just when they're not doing anything.

Gotta blend/balance the two. You can't go from "safe" on model conversation scenes to off-model but pretty, fluid movement without it being too jarring to the audience.

Yeah you're right. But well i don't know if we could ever have something like that with dbs.Maybe in the future...........

[SansrivaaL]

As for me I can see that Toei can really pull some good fight scenes when needed, at least they havent pulled an ep 5 level of animation up until now.
I may be in the minority here but for me Super's best beats Z's best.

Z
[spoiler]



[/spoiler]

Super
[spoiler]







[/spoiler]

[Bansho64]

As for me I can see that Toei can really pull some good fight scenes when needed, at least they havent pulled an ep 5 level of animation up until now.
I may be in the minority here but for me Super's best beats Z's best.

Z
[spoiler]



[/spoiler]

Super
[spoiler]







[/spoiler]

You're missing a lot from Z and a lot from Super. For example, Shimanuki's cut from episode 103 and episode 98. Those two alone beat all of those clips you just posted in my opinion. And that's not even the tip of the iceberg. I'm not sure what Super's got but I'm hoping it's more than what you just posted.

[SansrivaaL]

As for me I can see that Toei can really pull some good fight scenes when needed, at least they havent pulled an ep 5 level of animation up until now.
I may be in the minority here but for me Super's best beats Z's best.

Z
[spoiler]



[/spoiler]

Super
[spoiler]







[/spoiler]

You're missing a lot from Z and a lot from Super. For example, Shimanuki's cut from episode 103 and episode 98. Those two alone beat all of those clips you just posted in my opinion. And that's not even the tip of the iceberg. I'm not sure what Super's got but I'm hoping it's more than what you just posted.

Good for you then. I'm not really interested in comparing my opinion to yours.

What I put are already plenty enough, while SSJ Goku V Freeza had their moments I still find the one's I posted superior. Hence Why I said I may be in the minority, I'm not stating what I said as a fact.

[Bansho64]

Good for you then. I'm not really interested in comparing my opinion to yours.

What I put are already plenty enough, while SSJ Goku V Freeza had their moments I still find the one's I posted superior. Hence Why I said I may be in the minority, I'm not stating what I said as a fact.

I'm not trying to compare my opinion to yours either. I'm just saying there are a LOT more more moments from both series with good animation. Sorry if I came off as hostile. I'm just trying to make a point.

[Nejishiki]

[spoiler][/spoiler]

That gif is strangely edited. I can't put my finger on it, but the colors are too noticeable?

[Avok]

[spoiler][/spoiler]

That gif is strangely edited. I can't put my finger on it, but the colors are too noticeable?

Looks like they desaturated it.

[FTW395]

It's Honestly sad that an anime of 20 years ago had beter animation than Dragonball Super. I'm sorry but the lack of somewhat decent animation makes Super one of the worst animes I've ever watched. Dragonball GT is way better than Super just because of the animation. Even though DBGT has a garbage Story and Super has a fantastic one.

[JulieYBM]

It's Honestly sad that an anime of 20 years ago had beter animation than Dragonball Super.

That's not how things work. Twenty years later means that there is even more for new animators to have to learn.

[Lord Beerus]

As for me I can see that Toei can really pull some good fight scenes when needed, at least they havent pulled an ep 5 level of animation up until now.
I may be in the minority here but for me Super's best beats Z's best.

Z
[spoiler]



[/spoiler]

Super
[spoiler]







[/spoiler]

The clips from the Goku/Cell fight wasn't from Toei. Studio Cockpit animated the entire episode from where that fight came from. Honestly, the best animation that franchise has produced has been directly from Studio Cockpit. Also, your choices of what Super's best fight scenes are have a disturbing lack of Tate and Onishi.

[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

[nite_jay]

I don't know why people automatically think just because it's modern animation it should be 10x better than animation from decades ago. I know there may be a few more nifty effects or whatever, but I mean it's not like the computer or whatever draws it for them. When people say stuff like that it just makes me assume that they know nothing about animation.

[Armalord]

Just to clarify, my point was not to ask people, "Do fans want better animation for Super" since that answer is obvious, but rather, "If Super did receive top-tier work, would it actually be appreciated considering the reaction to a lot of this stuff?"

It's, "Do fans actually want those type of visuals in a show like Dragon Ball or are they after a nostalgia trip, even if that doesn't add up to what's considered anything special by today's industry?"

I ask this because, as outlined above, reactions to unique animators like Tate and Shida have been mixed. I've seen posts about how Shida's cut in Battle of Gods is too flashy, and how 'modern beams' (Karasawa and Takahashi's work, for example) aren't 'solid' like the ones found in the original series.

All kinds of complaints about contemporary animation styles that make me wonder whether fans actually want Dragon Ball to evolve with the medium or stick to what it had back in the day. I just found it confusing since some of the same people who do say these things also ask for the series to look like X and Y, even if said series features far more abstract work than anything ever seen in Dragon Ball before.

I'm not condemning either point of view, but it's something I wonder about, and would love to see spoken about honestly. I think it would definitely help me better understand what some fans would like, since at the moment, it's all a bit confusing for me. It seems contradictory.

Not hugely informed on animation. I looked through your thread - which I respect you for since you put in a lot of work to inform the fanbase.

However, my main issue with the series is probably the character designs and the color choices used. I feel that with the way characters are animated would be a lot less prevalent were it not for how much the characters clash with the background/scenery. I feel like this also has an effect on the tone of the series or may just be a choice based on the audience that the show is directed at(?) Since it definitely seems a lot less mature.

One of the earlier post showed a Naruto Shippuden clip of off-model(?) animation. It's definitely noticeable but I feel like it works better here because of the way the series as a whole looks. Less saturated(?)/darker colours such that the animation tricks/styles aren't as glaring and the colours fit the tone the anime is going for too

I'm not quite sure if it's a Toei thing? But most of their modern anime just seems so plasticy, colorful and cartoonish which honestly just makes it painfully obvious when characters aren't drawn on-model.

Regardless, based on the One Punch Man clips, that's something I'd like to see in Super. Assuming the colours/tones matched or fit. And of course, if they had the same production.

[Lookerman]

I'd rather have high quality drawings with "stiff" animation than simple drawings with amazing animation if I were to choose between one. But I'd rather have both in dragonBall

I'm actually the opposite myself, but for an action show, and especially in DBS's case, I kinda want both- detailed art that makes the character look like the character (if not entirely detailed), and fluid, well-choreographed animation both in and outside of fights.

And aside from some exceptions, Super's not really been delivering in either case. Yeah, characters are recognizable, But they look sinfully ugly 80% of the time (I chalk that up to Yamamuro's designs and the animators being unable to nail it). And the movements look woefully worse in many cases.