"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by fadeddreams5 » Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:40 pm

HeroR wrote:
LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta wrote:
8'er wasn't like 18 and 17 he was completely robotic like 16.

Hit's a stern serious character goku has to fight at the end of a tournament out in space, and he cares about winning the right way more then winning and has fun doing what he does. he's almost equal with goku, goku does a kaioken against him in a ssj form, who' stronger is ambiguous, there's no clear winner, and he's the strongest from where he comes from, and he's very very old.....NONE of that sounds like pikkon? Literally all of that applies to Pikkon. He eeven has a similar face and height and body build.

The only thing pikkon and piccolo really have in common is they're green and have weighted clothes. By that logic nappa is a raditz clone.

I'm glad you could enjoy the arc, wish I could. I think this arc is much better so far. like 50x better IMO. but Hit is way to similar to Pikkon, even more of a copy then Nouva Shenron was!
Android 8 was confirmed to be a person who was brought back to life as an android. He wasn't completely robotic like 16.

Hit is a 1000 years old assassin who so powerful that he never needed to improve until he met Goku. Upon fighting Goku and realizing his limits, he chose to improve himself, and as a thank you to Goku he allowed Goku to use his ultimate move and refused to play keep away like Champa suggested. He was also held back from using his best techniques because there was no killing, so Goku tried to have the rules removed. When that failed, Goku forfeited himself because he couldn't fight Hit at his best, and neither of them liked being called pawns of the gods. As another thank you, Hit lost to Monaka.

Hit has more in common with Freeza than Pikkon in that they were both extremely talented warriors who were born the best, never needed to train, until they met Goku. Whereas Freeza became bitter and resentful, Hit was gracious and was happy to finally find a worthy opponent.

Goku beat Pikkon in their match, there is no ambiguous about it. The only reason the match was thrown out was because the Grand Kai didn't want to train Goku because he was out of shape, so he pulled a loophole abuse. The Kaioken was also only used for several seconds and wasn't even a major factor in the fight. There is also no ambiguous about how is stronger between Goku and Pikkon. Pikkon was straight up stronger than Goku, and Goku only won because Pikkon's ultimate attack has too long of a prep time and Goku can teleport. We also have no clue how old Pikkon is and it doesn't really matter because he's dead. We get no background on Pikkon other than he's the best fighter from the Earth Quadrant and he experience no personal growth from fighting Goku.

When Pikkon was being drawn, the notes literally said, 'he's like Piccolo, give him this expression'. So he is literally a Piccolo expy and he even took Piccolo's personality. The simulates between Hit and Pikkon is extremely thin.
If we're basing similarities and discrepancies on backstory, then the characters are gonna be radically different. By this logic, there is nothing similar between Frost and Frieza either, even though, in actuality, they're practically the same character. As far as overall presentation, roles in the story, and personality, Hit is basically Pikkon 2.0. As far as appearance, Pikkon is like Piccolo--hell, Goku even notes that particular comparison.

And really, we don't even know Pikkon's backstory, yet he is periodically assigned to kill or enforce, just like Hit. Pikkon is seen beating up old villains, including Frieza. Hit beats up Frost.

I don't recall the Grand Kai making up a rule. He just enforced it and sighed in relief that he didn't have to train them. Goku got a ring out, but Pikkon held the upper hand throughout the fight and probably could have killed Goku in a death match.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by JustSomeFella » Wed Aug 10, 2016 2:19 pm

Chelentano wrote:
JustSomeFella wrote:I really don't like that chapter portraying the events of Trunks' future in such a light-hearded and comical way. Feels very misguided.
It really isn't all that comical. There is just a few babies there, but it isn't comical at all.
Piccolo's goofy, pouty face after being killed begs to differ.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Chelentano » Wed Aug 10, 2016 2:30 pm

JustSomeFella wrote:
Chelentano wrote:
JustSomeFella wrote:I really don't like that chapter portraying the events of Trunks' future in such a light-hearded and comical way. Feels very misguided.
It really isn't all that comical. There is just a few babies there, but it isn't comical at all.
Piccolo's goofy, pouty face after being killed begs to differ.
Yeah, and Goku's panel is a bit goofy too. But those are two gags in a crude story. That's normal in Dragon Ball.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Noah » Wed Aug 10, 2016 2:55 pm

Doctor. wrote:
Noah wrote:Just see Super as its own thing and then you'll see how it makes perfect sense, Goku might considered to be evil because then he would have nothing holding him back, he's just wanna grow stronger and fight stronger opponents, something that he can't acomplish being committed with Earth's safety.
You can't see Super as its own thing, it's a sequel. It doesn't make sense for Goku to turn evil at any point in the series.

That's a far-fetched scenario as Goku would never forfeit his friends' and the Earth's safety, but even if it was put to use, you could have Goku in an antagonist role, as in, everybody tries to reason with him, using force if necessary. Him having intentions that would put everyone in danger is different than him turning completely evil, he'd never kill innocent beings and that's what makes an evil character evil.
Of course you can, just stop considering Super as a main thing and watch it like a show whose sole purpose is entertainment. I mean you're right it would be non-sense to Goku out of nowhere decided to be an evil person, but if we ignore canon stuff things get easier.

Goku in his fight with Black could realize that there's no point in being a good guy at all, when you're evil you can do anything you want without giving a sh** for what happens next, plus he would have more challenges, he would finaly accept his true Saiyan heritage, as a brute savage that don't care about anything that doesn't involve fighting.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Kishido » Wed Aug 10, 2016 3:09 pm

What am I reading?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by fadeddreams5 » Wed Aug 10, 2016 3:34 pm

While I acknowledge that Goku is a retard in Super and distinctive to how he was originally portrayed, it would be a disservice to turn him evil just because. That's just...wrong.
"Dragon Ball once became a thing of the past to me, but after that, I got angry about the live action movie, re-wrote an entire movie script, and now I'm complaining about the quality of the new TV anime. It seems Dragon Ball has grown on me so much that I can't leave it alone." - Akira Toriyama on Dragon Ball Super

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Hellspawn28 » Wed Aug 10, 2016 3:50 pm

I'm 99% sure that Goku Black is Zamasu. Zamasu probably took over Goku's body in Trunks timeline since gods have shown the power to take over a body for a host. Kami did it before in the 23rd Tenkachi Budokai.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Kishido » Wed Aug 10, 2016 3:56 pm

Hellspawn28 wrote:I'm 99% sure that Goku Black is Zamasu. Zamasu probably took over Goku's body in Trunks timeline since gods have shown the power to take over a body for a host. Kami did it before in the 23rd Tenkachi Budokai.
Goku is dead in that timeline. And by a natural way

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by FortuneSSJ » Wed Aug 10, 2016 4:02 pm

Grimlock wrote:The two scans that show Pilaf asking Shenlong to make them younger has been leaked. Will somebody translate them? Are those pages canon/should be taken seriously or they are just a gag moment with no intention at all?
You can consider it canon to the new stuff.
The purpose is to explain how Pilaf Gang became younger in FT Trunks timeline, for people that couldn't sum 1+1.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Wed Aug 10, 2016 4:14 pm

Hellspawn28 wrote:I'm 99% sure that Goku Black is Zamasu. Zamasu probably took over Goku's body in Trunks timeline since gods have shown the power to take over a body for a host. Kami did it before in the 23rd Tenkachi Budokai.
A God who hates mortals decide to take over the body of a mortal to kill other mortals. Why? And how does he know Vegeta and why did he say, 'So, you're Son Goku', if they already met?

Also, Kami took over the body of a weak human. What makes you assume that Zamasu can take over someone many times stronger than him? And if Goku wasn't stronger than Zamasu, then why bother taking Goku's body.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Hellspawn28 » Wed Aug 10, 2016 4:22 pm

Kishido wrote:
Hellspawn28 wrote:I'm 99% sure that Goku Black is Zamasu. Zamasu probably took over Goku's body in Trunks timeline since gods have shown the power to take over a body for a host. Kami did it before in the 23rd Tenkachi Budokai.
Goku is dead in that timeline. And by a natural way
Maybe he took over his dead body?
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by fadeddreams5 » Wed Aug 10, 2016 4:23 pm

When Goku died after fighting Raditz, didn't his body disappear with him to the other world? Against Cell, the same thing happened since he's allowed to keep his body.

Why would this be different in Trunks' timeline? Maybe cause he died of natural causes? O_o
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Kanassa » Wed Aug 10, 2016 4:34 pm

fadeddreams5 wrote: By this logic, there is nothing similar between Frost and Frieza either, even though, in actuality, they're practically the same character. .
I disagree, while tey look simmilar and are both evil, they're different in personality and methods. Frieza blows up planets for funzies and rules through fear, while Frost is acharacter who puts on an act and is fully prepared to sacrfice his own dignity and pride to avoid harm in some situations, he makes everyone around him see him as a benevolent Lord and keeps his skeletons firmly inside his closet, doing so out of greed then an actual thirst for destruction.
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by fadeddreams5 » Wed Aug 10, 2016 4:39 pm

Same exact character, different means of attaining what they want. Frieza ruled by fear. Frost ruled by deception, likely because his universe actually has characters that can easily kill him. After being exposed, he's just Frieza.
"Dragon Ball once became a thing of the past to me, but after that, I got angry about the live action movie, re-wrote an entire movie script, and now I'm complaining about the quality of the new TV anime. It seems Dragon Ball has grown on me so much that I can't leave it alone." - Akira Toriyama on Dragon Ball Super

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Kanassa » Wed Aug 10, 2016 4:49 pm

fadeddreams5 wrote:Same exact character, different means of attaining what they want. Frieza ruled by fear. Frost ruled by deception, likely because his universe actually has characters that can easily kill him. After being exposed, he's just Frieza.
Okay, how are they the same EXACT character? And no, both being evil doesn't mean much. Also, their different means show their differing personalities.
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:

Kanassa wrote:
FoolsGil wrote:I hope Mark is dead. But chances are the dragonballs will bring his stupid ass back. :D
- FoolsGil, Out of Context, 2017

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Sonicjamareiz » Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:15 pm

That "retard" remark is getting old he was only like that for 2 episodes and its only been that one writer that made Goku that way then suddenly thats all Goku's about. Yet another small thing taking totally out of proportion this fanbase is going to implode if this keeps up. :wtf:
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Chiki » Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:19 pm

HeroR wrote:
Hellspawn28 wrote:I'm 99% sure that Goku Black is Zamasu. Zamasu probably took over Goku's body in Trunks timeline since gods have shown the power to take over a body for a host. Kami did it before in the 23rd Tenkachi Budokai.
A God who hates mortals decide to take over the body of a mortal to kill other mortals. Why? And how does he know Vegeta and why did he say, 'So, you're Son Goku', if they already met?

Also, Kami took over the body of a weak human. What makes you assume that Zamasu can take over someone many times stronger than him? And if Goku wasn't stronger than Zamasu, then why bother taking Goku's body.
You don't think Black is Zamasu? Then how do they have the same ki except Black's is more evil?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:24 pm

Chiki wrote:
HeroR wrote:
Hellspawn28 wrote:I'm 99% sure that Goku Black is Zamasu. Zamasu probably took over Goku's body in Trunks timeline since gods have shown the power to take over a body for a host. Kami did it before in the 23rd Tenkachi Budokai.
A God who hates mortals decide to take over the body of a mortal to kill other mortals. Why? And how does he know Vegeta and why did he say, 'So, you're Son Goku', if they already met?

Also, Kami took over the body of a weak human. What makes you assume that Zamasu can take over someone many times stronger than him? And if Goku wasn't stronger than Zamasu, then why bother taking Goku's body.
You don't think Black is Zamasu? Then how do they have the same ki except Black's is more evil?

Similar, not the same.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Chiki » Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:32 pm

HeroR wrote:
Chiki wrote:
HeroR wrote:
A God who hates mortals decide to take over the body of a mortal to kill other mortals. Why? And how does he know Vegeta and why did he say, 'So, you're Son Goku', if they already met?

Also, Kami took over the body of a weak human. What makes you assume that Zamasu can take over someone many times stronger than him? And if Goku wasn't stronger than Zamasu, then why bother taking Goku's body.
You don't think Black is Zamasu? Then how do they have the same ki except Black's is more evil?

Similar, not the same.
That's what the "except Black's ki is more evil" part is for. When they were talking about Zamasu and Black's respective kis, Whis mentioned only that the difference was Black's ki was more evil, and nothing else. If there were any other difference it would have been mentioned.

I guess there is a possibility that some evil guy killed Zamasu and put his ki into Goku's body (that's hard to even put into words), maybe even Gomasu. But that is very confusing and unlikely after all the attention Zamasu has received.

I'm personally a fan of the theory that Zamasu is going to split himself into two halves, good and evil. Evil Zamasu will kill the good half (which is why you see him falling in the OP) and become Black.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by fadeddreams5 » Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:42 pm

Sonicjamareiz wrote:That "retard" remark is getting old he was only like that for 2 episodes and its only been that one writer that made Goku that way then suddenly thats all Goku's about. Yet another small thing taking totally out of proportion this fanbase is going to implode if this keeps up. :wtf:
I've been calling Super's Goku a retard for months or half a year now. I think it caught on.
Kanassa wrote:
fadeddreams5 wrote:Same exact character, different means of attaining what they want. Frieza ruled by fear. Frost ruled by deception, likely because his universe actually has characters that can easily kill him. After being exposed, he's just Frieza.
Okay, how are they the same EXACT character? And no, both being evil doesn't mean much. Also, their different means show their differing personalities.
How are they not? Frost looks like Frieza, he acts like Frieza (post-reveal), he has the same VA as Frieza, he has the same goals as Frieza, and has nothing that distinguishes him from Frieza, besides the poison and deception. Sure, he went about his business differently than his counterpart, but did it to attain the same thing: a lavish lifestyle and glory.

On a side note, Frost is the worst character ever introduced in this entire franchise, imo. No exaggeration.
"Dragon Ball once became a thing of the past to me, but after that, I got angry about the live action movie, re-wrote an entire movie script, and now I'm complaining about the quality of the new TV anime. It seems Dragon Ball has grown on me so much that I can't leave it alone." - Akira Toriyama on Dragon Ball Super

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