Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

[Regarder]

Yep. Kienzan has always been just a really sharp disc that can cut stronger people. You compress ki to a point and it has a higher powerlevel, so if you spin it into a flattened out disc with loads of ki backing up a thin edge, the same thing should be true. The "it can cut through anything" thing is a lot like how movie Broly got hyped into having infinitely growing power based on him powering up uncontrollably and not getting tired. DBM took one of those fan myths and ran with it for fun, but not the other, which is their prerogative.

[Noah]

Wait, so not only did she handicap herself by not going SS, she was also handicapping herself by not even trying? What was the point of this? Nobody learns anything. How very boring. There could have been consequences to this.

Exactly, we just wasted our time with this match, damn.

[rereboy]

Bullshit. Fuck this Kienzan nerfing. The thing has one special property. If that property can be nullified then it's useless. It'd be nice to have one attack in Dragon Ball that works regardless of raw power.

It was beaten with technique, not power. Vegetto has a Ki sword-beam technique that Bra adapted into a small ki blade.

So why couldn't Sauza cut Krillin's Kienzan when this tournament started?

Insufficient power or not good enough technique. Remember that Bra is most likely adapting Vegetto's ki sword-beam here, not copying Sauza's technique.

Wait, so not only did she handicap herself by not going SS, she was also handicapping herself by not even trying? What was the point of this? Nobody learns anything. How very boring. There could have been consequences to this.

Exactly, we just wasted our time with this match, damn.

By that logic we waste our time watching any fight except the final boss ones. Not to mention all the "this isn't even my true power" moments in the manga.

[Rubens]

Initially I was afraid she would deflect the kienzan with he bare hand, so I'm glad she use Vegetto's ki sword technique. I suppose it's slice and dice time for Cold now.

[ryou766]

I despise Bra even more now.

[HeroR]

I do agree that the Kienzan gets wank too hard on this forums. The, 'it cuts through anything', has no real basics in the manga since the last thing it cut was Buu which bullets can pierce. It can cut through enemies that would normally kill Krillin in a glanced., but I never brought it was an invincible attack that is utterly unblockable and would kill or seriously harm, let say Beerus, if it lands.

[miguelnuva1]

I think the best way to humble Bra is going to be when U18 Gogeta beats U16 Vegito. I still think that fight is coming and its going to be because Gogeta is going to combine Vegeta's new form with SSJ3.

[FoolsGil]

I don't understand why there is such an obsession with Bra being "humbled." Vegeta got his ass kicked countless times. Still goes on and on about Saiyan Pride this and Prince that. Even if Bra is absolutely crushed by Gast, or if by some miracle Cold proves he's a genius, and still takes Bra down, the moment she's back on her feet, she'll still be a blowhard. and then she goes back to a universe where she's the second strongest fighter with no one to oppose her but Vegetto

There's only one way I can see Bra changing because of this tournament, and its not by her defeat. She wins the fight. She meets up with Vegetto. He takes her up to the Vargas and forces her to forfeit. Why? Because she didn't fight honorably:

-Goku would have given Cold a senzu.
-Vegeta wouldn't have used any senzu until the fight was over.

So the Goku / Vegeta amalgamation is pissed because Bra didn't fight like a proper Saiyan, so he teaches her a lesson about Saiyan Pride or Honor by getting her DQ'd in the tournament. And even then, she doesn't necessarily become humbled. Just, know the proper ethics in a duel Whatever, and if we're lucky, this translates to not to be stuck up and frigid every waking moment of her life. But Highly unlikely stuff. Whatever happens to her, Bra isn't going to be humbled. Vegeta's blood is in her, she will always be who she is.

[Pantalones]

I do agree that the Kienzan gets wank too hard on this forums. The, 'it cuts through anything', has no real basics in the manga since the last thing it cut was Buu which bullets can pierce. It can cut through enemies that would normally kill Krillin in a glanced., but I never brought it was an invincible attack that is utterly unblockable and would kill or seriously harm, let say Beerus, if it lands.

Pretty much exactly my thoughts here.

It's bizarre how people take a couple of incidents with a stronger opponent being caught off-guard by it (Nappa almost getting himself killed by stupidly trying to take it head-on because he didn't know it was different than a standard blast, Freeza losing a chunk of tail because he didn't dodge fast enough) and somehow expand those few moments into this myth of a literally unstoppable technique that can cut through anything regardless of the situation.

And there's absolutely no reason to believe that Vegetto's ki-sword technique wouldn't be able to split a Kienzan in half. We've never really seen the Kienzan interact with other ki attacks, and especially not with that particular technique, which in the series was used exactly once against Super Buu. "Stronger blade cuts through weaker blade" is such a common thing in anime that it shouldn't surprise anyone, let alone trigger exaggeratedly outraged cries of the Kienzan being "nerfed," that a Bra who's the daughter of the guy who came up with that technique (and Goku also knew the Kienzan, by the way, so it's entirely possible that energy-sword move is an upgraded Kienzan itself!) would be able to pull something like that.

[TonyTheTiger]

It's not a "myth" so much as it's just better that way. It's better for Dragon Ball to have techniques that operate outside the power paradigm.

[Regarder]

It's not a "myth" so much as it's just better that way. It's better for Dragon Ball to have techniques that operate outside the power paradigm.

Yeah, but Kienzan is just a ki disc. There's no particular reason for it to have that property. "Cut through EVERYTHING" sounds like a magic type attack, or at least something using something weirder than just brute force to begin with.

[miguelnuva1]

I don't understand why there is such an obsession with Bra being "humbled." Vegeta got his ass kicked countless times. Still goes on and on about Saiyan Pride this and Prince that. Even if Bra is absolutely crushed by Gast, or if by some miracle Cold proves he's a genius, and still takes Bra down, the moment she's back on her feet, she'll still be a blowhard. and then she goes back to a universe where she's the second strongest fighter with no one to oppose her but Vegetto

There's only one way I can see Bra changing because of this tournament, and its not by her defeat. She wins the fight. She meets up with Vegetto. He takes her up to the Vargas and forces her to forfeit. Why? Because she didn't fight honorably:

-Goku would have given Cold a senzu.
-Vegeta wouldn't have used any senzu until the fight was over.

So the Goku / Vegeta amalgamation is pissed because Bra didn't fight like a proper Saiyan, so he teaches her a lesson about Saiyan Pride or Honor by getting her DQ'd in the tournament. And even then, she doesn't necessarily become humbled. Just, know the proper ethics in a duel Whatever, and if we're lucky, this translates to not to be stuck up and frigid every waking moment of her life. But Highly unlikely stuff. Whatever happens to her, Bra isn't going to be humbled. Vegeta's blood is in her, she will always be who she is.

Vegeta got humbled by Frieza and to a less part Goku in the Buu saga. I simply want to see Goku beat her because that's what he does, over comes the odds at the end of the day.

I also want to see Gogeta vs Vegito because he doesn't want to see that fight.

[rereboy]

It's not a "myth" so much as it's just better that way. It's better for Dragon Ball to have techniques that operate outside the power paradigm.

And she didn't beat it with power. Cold made a Ki thing that cuts and Bra made another Ki thing that cuts. Bra didn't have more power behind her Ki thing, her technique was simply better.

[HeroR]

I don't understand why there is such an obsession with Bra being "humbled." Vegeta got his ass kicked countless times. Still goes on and on about Saiyan Pride this and Prince that. Even if Bra is absolutely crushed by Gast, or if by some miracle Cold proves he's a genius, and still takes Bra down, the moment she's back on her feet, she'll still be a blowhard. and then she goes back to a universe where she's the second strongest fighter with no one to oppose her but Vegetto

There's only one way I can see Bra changing because of this tournament, and its not by her defeat. She wins the fight. She meets up with Vegetto. He takes her up to the Vargas and forces her to forfeit. Why? Because she didn't fight honorably:

-Goku would have given Cold a senzu.
-Vegeta wouldn't have used any senzu until the fight was over.

So the Goku / Vegeta amalgamation is pissed because Bra didn't fight like a proper Saiyan, so he teaches her a lesson about Saiyan Pride or Honor by getting her DQ'd in the tournament. And even then, she doesn't necessarily become humbled. Just, know the proper ethics in a duel Whatever, and if we're lucky, this translates to not to be stuck up and frigid every waking moment of her life. But Highly unlikely stuff. Whatever happens to her, Bra isn't going to be humbled. Vegeta's blood is in her, she will always be who she is.

It isn't about Bra changing, at least not to me. It's about Bra getting what has been coming to her, just like all of Vegeta's ass whooping were well deserved, and in the end he did become a better person. It just took a lot of humiliation congas to get there.

It is also a common theme in Dragon Ball. Someone get the big head, they're in for a fall. Even Goku runs into this. He feels invincible after taking out King Piccolo, Mr. Popo beats his butt into the ground. Goku felt mighty against the Ginyu Force, he gets his body stolen. He thought he had Golden Freeza at his mercy, he gets laser by a mook. The big different between Toriyama and the writers of Multiverse is that Toriyama is not afraid to punished his characters when they act smug and stupid. Whether the lesson sinks in is up to the character. I will give Multiverse credit for humbling Vegetto who was given the most anti-climactic next to Android 18. So, maybe they will do the same with Bra. Although, after this ass pull, I am not too hopeful.

Finally, she may go back to her universe still number two, but she will always know that there is someone out there who is better than her, which is the big theme of Dragon Ball.

[The Monkey King]

I am completely OK with this.

I always hated the idea that the kienzan is an OP unstoppable move that can kill anything it touches, it just doesn't make sense.

The way some of you people talk about it it's like you believe saiyan saga Krillin could slice Beerus and Whis in half with a kienzan.

It's a powerful technique but not infallible and the way it was dispatched by Bra makes sense.

[FoolsGil]

It isn't about Bra changing, at least not to me. It's about Bra getting what has been coming to her, just like all of Vegeta's ass whooping were well deserved, and in the end he did become a better person. It just took a lot of humiliation congas to get there.

It is also a common theme in Dragon Ball. Someone get the big head, they're in for a fall. Even Goku runs into this. He feels invincible after taking out King Piccolo, Mr. Popo beats his butt into the ground. Goku felt mighty against the Ginyu Force, he gets his body stolen. He thought he had Golden Freeza at his mercy, he gets laser by a mook. The big different between Toriyama and the writers of Multiverse is that Toriyama is not afraid to punished his characters when they act smug and stupid. Whether the lesson sinks in is up to the character. I will give Multiverse credit for humbling Vegetto who was given the most anti-climactic next to Android 18. So, maybe they will do the same with Bra. Although, after this ass pull, I am not too hopeful.

Finally, she may go back to her universe still number two, but she will always know that there is someone out there who is better than her, which is the big theme of Dragon Ball.

Well, when you put it like that, I suppose a kick in the pants would be good for Bra after all.

I am completely OK with this.

I always hated the idea that the kienzan is an OP unstoppable move that can kill anything it touches, it just doesn't make sense.

The way some of you people talk about it it's like you believe saiyan saga Krillin could slice Beerus and Whis in half with a kienzan.

It's a powerful technique but not infallible and the way it was dispatched by Bra makes sense.

The funny thing about the Kienzan debate, no one really knows though. You, and others can claim that Beers wouldn't be cut from the Kienzan, but we don't really know, because its never been tried. I believe the attack under normal circumstances are unstoppable, which is why in the series Krillin doesn't cut shit(or just a flesh wound) with it, doesn't train with it, and even in circumstances when he could have used it and would have connected, he didn't. I also believe Beers is an abnormal circumstance. Super clearly shows that the God Tiers are on a higher level than Mortal Tiers, as I see it. But really, I don't know. None of us do. And we should stop pretending we do.

Still ticked that Bra deflected it though.

[Puto]

In filler, the Kienzan was unable to cut Cell, and Cell is a character who could've regenerated from that anyway, so if they wanted to make it unstoppable they could have without it automatically defeating the main villain at the time.

[Scarz]

Okay, I'm just as confused as Cold.

[FoolsGil]

...Last update when I thought it was just an afterimage variant, cool. But now the block parts aren't dissapating, they're sticking to Cold's body. and are heavy enough to bring him down...It's like something from RWBY, or that one guy in Bleach with his weight based shikai...and now I'm calling hax. That is way too much.

[Marco Polo]

Looks like a variant of Giras' Merry-Go-Round Gum technique. That or nano-machines.