Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

[HeroR]

Vegito likely taught Bra everything she knows like a Master would usually do with an apprintce.

That wouldn't be a problem, if we ever saw Vegetto used these techniques or it had some foreshadow in some way. This literally come out of nowhere.

Man, you must have hated Buu. He was stronger than everyone else, had techniques no one else had, had overpowered regeneration with no consequences, came out of nowhere, and got to beat up on established characters the whole arc.

WHAT A MARY SUE.

Comparing what Buu did to what Bra just did, not even close.

Buu was a new character who had magical abilities. It also made sense why there was no forewarning of Buu because he has been sealed away for billion of years so the only people who would remember him are the gods and people who are extremely long lived. Plus, we know Toriyama writes by the seat of his pants so he wouldn't have fought of Buu until the moment he needed a new villain after Cell.

Bra is a known character who just pulled a modified version of a technique that has never been seen before or even hinted at. Even in Dragon Ball when characters used a new technique, they tell you they're using a new technique like Tien's multiplier technique.

I'm not even a big fan of Gotenks's weird nonsense but at least there the fusion dance itself is essentially magic.

It's not described as magic in the guidebooks, but even if it was, that doesn't make Gotenks a fucking magician.

Bra's advanced techniques are as much BS as Gotenks' advanced techniques.

Here's the thing, Goku learned the Fusion Dance from aliens in Otherworld, and Goten and Trunks had to train to used it. So the Fusion Dance didn't really come out of nowhere, and given that Goku had been dead for seven years with the greatest fighters in the universe, it would makes sense for Goku to pick up some oddball techniques. Like I said, Bra using a solid After Image, cool whatever. It probably could happened. A solid After Image that turns to goo that can hold down an opponent, yeah that's a bridge too far for me.

[rereboy]

Well, that's kind of part of my point. Dragon Ball does stupid ass things sometimes. I don't think that necessarily makes it ok for DBM to do it, too. If something is stupid I'm going to call it stupid regardless of the source.

You'd rather just have the same old "stronger", "bigger Ki beams", instead of an actual different technique that is not even as weird as what we saw in the original manga?

Bra is a known character who just pulled a modified version of a technique that has never been seen before or even hinted at. Even in Dragon Ball when characters used a new technique, they tell you they're using a new technique like Tien's multiplier technique.

Like Krillin when he used a disc technique out of nowhere in the saiyan saga that would have killed a much stronger opponent, without any previous hint of that technique, besides unshown and unspecified implied training and talent? A technique, btw, that continued to prove effective after that and was never shown in the manga to be ineffective when it hit the opponent?

Or Goku suddenly being able to read minds in Namek, which shocks even Krillin?

Or basically almost any other new technique that was introduced... Basically they all get introduced with just the "oh, he trained" explanation.

Here's the thing, Goku learned the Fusion Dance from aliens in Otherworld, and Goten and Trunks had to train to used it. So the Fusion Dance didn't really come out of nowhere, and given that Goku had been dead for seven years with the greatest fighters in the universe, it would makes sense for Goku to pick up some oddball techniques. Like I said, Bra using a solid After Image, cool whatever. It probably could happened. A solid After Image that turns to goo that can hold down an opponent, yeah that's a bridge too far for me.

In your opinion, it doesn't come out of nowhere if it simply said that it's an alien technique and because Goku had seven years to learn "odd stuff"... But it comes out of nowhere when it's Bra, who comes from a different universe, who has Vegetto's genes, who learned her stuff from Vegetto all her life during almost two decades, and with Vegetto being a fusion created by Kaioshin's magical earings of the two most talented mortals and what we saw him do in the original manga? That seems incoherent to me.

[TonyTheTiger]

Well, that's kind of part of my point. Dragon Ball does stupid ass things sometimes. I don't think that necessarily makes it ok for DBM to do it, too. If something is stupid I'm going to call it stupid regardless of the source.

You'd rather just have the same old "stronger", "bigger Ki beams", instead of an actual different technique that is not even as weird as what we saw in the original manga?

I just want shit to make sense. You can introduce different interesting techniques without pulling them straight out of your ass. A simple explanation would suffice.

[rereboy]

I just want shit to make sense. You can introduce different interesting techniques without pulling them straight out of your ass. A simple explanation would suffice.

Where do you want the explanation to be? In the comments? Because each page only has 4 or 5 panels and the last panels were kind of occupied with what was happening. If there is going to be an explanation it will obviously be presented in due time where it can fit.

Right now, what you are doing is reading the page of a manga where a technique first appears and complaining that everything is not immediately clear and explained in that very same page.

Furthermore, when exactly were Gotenks' ghosts explained in the manga? They weren't. All that was explained was that they explode on contact. How Gotenks does it and so on, was never even touched. Not to mention other similar moments, like Goku suddenly being able to read minds on Namek. So, even something like that wouldn't be different from the original manga.

[TonyTheTiger]

You're not making a case by pointing to Toriyama's hack writing and being like "see, Dragon Ball does stupid things all the time!" I enjoy Dragon Ball in spite of those things. I still routinely dislike that they happen.

[Saiga]

But just think of the slogan.

DRAGON BALL MULTIVERSE

"Consistently comparable to the worst moments of the manga!"

[Lunaar]

But just think of the slogan.

DRAGON BALL MULTIVERSE

"Consistently comparable to the worst moments of the manga!"

Congrats, you've earned a spot on my signature.

[rereboy]

You're not making a case by pointing to Toriyama's hack writing and being like "see, Dragon Ball does stupid things all the time!" I enjoy Dragon Ball in spite of those things. I still routinely dislike that they happen.

The case that I pointed out to you was that you are basically demanding a full explanation in the same page that the technique was introduced. Your dislike or like towards DB or towards DBM doesn't make that criticism any more fair or coherent.

As for the comparisons to the original manga, considering that this is a fan manga based on it, those comparisons are extremely relevant, and if a fan manga like this, which obviously can't be held to the same standard as an actual professional, official manga, draws more negativity and criticism than the original by doing stuff that isn't that different from what was done in the original manga, and isn't even as weird as what was done in the original manga, then something is amiss. It's not just a case of "look, they did it too!!" as you make it sound by over-simplifying it.

But just think of the slogan.

DRAGON BALL MULTIVERSE

"Consistently comparable to the worst moments of the manga!"

Sure, why not simply just roll on with hate and sarcasm? That's always cool. And it's frankly much easier to do that than to try to keep a non-exaggerated and just approach in our criticism. Much easier to say something is rubbish and even add a gag about it when we don't especially like it than to try to have a measured response, taking its context, what it is, how it compares, and so on, in consideration when we don't especially like something.

[TonyTheTiger]

a fan manga like this, which obviously can't be held to the same standard as an actual professional, official manga

It absolutely can be.

[rereboy]

a fan manga like this, which obviously can't be held to the same standard as an actual professional, official manga

It absolutely can be.

You hold an amateur to the same standard that you hold a professional? You would criticize an amateur football player in the exact same way that you would a professional one?

You can do whatever you want but that makes no sense. It's like criticizing a kid like you would an adult.

[TonyTheTiger]

Considering how low the bar is for "professional, official" material in the world of Dragon Ball, that's not an unreasonable position. Besides, I never said DBM fails to meet those standards.

[rereboy]

Considering how low the bar is for "professional, official" material in the world of Dragon Ball, that's not an unreasonable position. Besides, I never said DBM fails to meet those standards.

Just because in some cases some fan created work can approach or even match the quality of professional work, like in some cases an amateur football player can match a professional one in quality, that doesn't mean that the standards for professional work aren't incomparably superior.

That just means that in those cases some part of the fan created work has surpassed by a great margin the standards of its own amateur "realm". That doesn't make it a professional work, though, nor does it make it part of professional standards.

The fact that some official db work is that poor just makes dbm look better in its own amateur context.

[coola]

Beautiful page, but really Bra, now you are stealing Crescent Beam attack from Sailor Venus?

[Fionordequester]

You hold an amateur to the same standard that you hold a professional?

YES! YES YES YES YES YES! Absolutely!

Like, I know you're trying to be "fair" to this fan manga. But if I know people like Salagir right, they wouldn't feel happy about that. Instead, they would feel as though they're work was being belittled; like "oh, it's just a fan manga, you can't expect it to ever amount to anything".

I mean heck, I'm going to be voicing Zen Buu for the Audio Drama. You'd better believe I want people to be judging me by the same standards they would judge Chris Sabat; how else would I ever improve if people keep giving me a constant stream of "Oh, of course you're doing well! You're doing a really good job [for some random guy on the internet who decided to pick up a mic one day...]"

[Marco Polo]

Beautiful page, but really Bra, now you are stealing Crescent Beam attack from Sailor Venus?

That ki weapon has a weird shape

Also, Bra's boobs (lol) should be more "spread apart" in that pose because she is raising her arms (and thus her pectoral muscles).

[TonyTheTiger]

Beautiful page, but really Bra, now you are stealing Crescent Beam attack from Sailor Venus?

That ki weapon has a weird shape

Also, Bra's boobs (lol) should be more "spread apart" in that pose because she is raising her arms (and thus her pectoral muscles).

Anyone remember THE PACT?

[Regarder]

It looks like Cold is going to get chopped in half. Was Bardock's vision wrong?

[Lord Beerus]

In the name of the moon, Bra will punish King Cold.

[HeroR]

You hold an amateur to the same standard that you hold a professional?

YES! YES YES YES YES YES! Absolutely!

Like, I know you're trying to be "fair" to this fan manga. But if I know people like Salagir right, they wouldn't feel happy about that. Instead, they would feel as though they're work was being belittled; like "oh, it's just a fan manga, you can't expect it to ever amount to anything".

I mean heck, I'm going to be voicing Zen Buu for the Audio Drama. You'd better believe I want people to be judging me by the same standards they would judge Chris Sabat; how else would I ever improve if people keep giving me a constant stream of "Oh, of course you're doing well! You're doing a really good job [for some random guy on the internet who decided to pick up a mic one day...]"

Thank you for this. I do fan work too, and I would be insulted if my work isn't judged to professional standards or dismissed because it isn't 'official'. In rereboy's defense of this comic, he probably gave it the worst insult.

And you can have unquie and different powers, but they need to make sense, especially with a pre-existing character who pulls moves out of nowhere. Dragon Ball, most of the new and crazier stuff goes to new characters whose limits are unknown.

[rereboy]

You hold an amateur to the same standard that you hold a professional?

YES! YES YES YES YES YES! Absolutely!

Like, I know you're trying to be "fair" to this fan manga. But if I know people like Salagir right, they wouldn't feel happy about that. Instead, they would feel as though they're work was being belittled; like "oh, it's just a fan manga, you can't expect it to ever amount to anything".

The author's feelings are irrelevant. A fan-created work doesn't cease to be a fan-created work just because the work has great quality or because the author is giving it his best effort. It is what it is. Only professional works are professional works. This is not a professional work. Their realities and nature are different.

Denying its nature for whatever reason, like the author's feelings, ultimately serves no real purpose because even the author should recognize the weaknesses and the reality of his work, which include the limitations that he is bound to compared to the professionals who work on this for a living and get a real salary out of it besides other kinds of support. An author that gets offended instead of recognizing his reality has blinded himself.

Thank you for this. I do fan work too, and I would be insulted if my work isn't judged to professional standards or dismissed because it isn't 'official'. In rereboy's defense of this comic, he probably gave it the worst insult.

If Salagir gets upset because I say that DBM is a fan-created work, that's, frankly, his problem. DBM is a fan-created work. That is a fact. Period.

If Salagir wants to deny that because he feels it is derogatory, instead of just being factual, then he is just failing to recognize the reality of his own work.

I'm not here to "defend" DBM no matter what, or to especially care about what Salagir feels. My post were just about pointing out the excessive and illogical negativity and criticism.