kinisking wrote:
Eh, maybe Freeza was a bad example but still. The power level difference was too big. Also piccolo was blocking frosts punches with one hand. You think frost would have taken it more seriously.
Okay, I'll give you that one.
In the manga he's apparently as strong as ss3 goku. That's ridiculous even if you don't consider base form equals ssg. In anime, he was weaker but goku was struggling to block his attack using 4 fingers. But back in the Android arc he was able to block it with one finger easily in the same form. For black are you referring to episode 51? It's debatable whether or not he was ss2 because we don't know when he achieved the form. Also black said trunks gave him some trouble, so trunks was close enough, even if black was stronger
Piccolo was only able to block because Frost went easy on him, Piccolo got on Frost about. If Frost had taking Piccolo seriously, he could have KO him with one powerful attack. He didn't because he figure why go all out on an inferior opponent. That logic can be used on any villain like why didn't 60 million Freeza flattered 3 million Goku on hit, even after he exhausted himself using the Kaio-Ken X20.
Who as strong as Super Saiyan 3 Goku? Goku didn't struggle with Trunks at all and grin when Trunks attacked him.
Black was also said in the anime to be as strong or stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku. Both Goku and Black held back when they fought. We also know Trunks gained Super Saiyan 2 some time after he beat Dabura, so he did challenge Black as a Super Saiyan 2 and lost. Trunks only gave Black trouble because he kept running away before he could kill him. The same as the manga.
Did frost ever say he wasn't taking the fight seriously or is this something you're assuming?
In the manga vegeta says he's pretty much as strong as Goku as a ss3 apparently. In the Android saga goku as a super saiyan was able to block trunks attack with ONE finger and ZERO effort. However, now with an even stronger form he has to use 4 fingers and you can see his hands shaking. If ss3 was way above ssg how does that even remotely make sense?
Jinzoningen MULE wrote: Maybe I should start making it a point not to comment when I'm not sure of something. Too many people know what they're talking about around here.
Disclaimer: I might get into a disagreement with you. Sometimes I might even get feisty about it. I'll never harbor negative feelings because of it though. I hope you feel the same way!
I made a bet with Alee9977 that Vegeta won't be beaten quickly by an opponent. If I lose, I switch my avatar to Vegeta getting beat by hit. If I win, he switches it to Vegeta holding Black by his hair. This will last a month.
Piccolo said that Frost big error was that he underestimated him, and Goku said point blank he stood no chance against Frost and Piccolo ask Frost to go back to one of his other forms. And you saw when Frost did get serious he put a hole in Piccolo.
Goku blocked Trunks with his fingers while grinning. He just decided not to use just one finger this time.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.
I see the manga finally leaked. Or well a large part of it i guess since i didn't see the flashback of the Kaioshins. And according to that french dbz website there was an image where you could see Old Kaioshin being locked up inside the sword?? Well i didn't see those yet?
The manga fights are so fucking good. This might sound like a travesty but toyotorou might be better than Toriyama at choreography.
Jinzoningen MULE wrote: Maybe I should start making it a point not to comment when I'm not sure of something. Too many people know what they're talking about around here.
Disclaimer: I might get into a disagreement with you. Sometimes I might even get feisty about it. I'll never harbor negative feelings because of it though. I hope you feel the same way!
I made a bet with Alee9977 that Vegeta won't be beaten quickly by an opponent. If I lose, I switch my avatar to Vegeta getting beat by hit. If I win, he switches it to Vegeta holding Black by his hair. This will last a month.
kinisking wrote:The manga fights are so fucking good. This might sound like a travesty but toyotorou might be better than Toriyama at choreography.
Travesty? Why exactly? That's a respectable opinion. Obviously we can't all love Toriyama'so work. Also Toyo has proven that he is not a pushover. If he can improve his art to the point of keeping it consistent under time pressure he will in the future become Toriyama Jr.
However, he still lacks a lot in creativity. Almost all his battles look the same (or it is just me thinking that). Maybe once Toriyama officially stops working on the story, Toyotaro can again work his af magic
Trunks vs Black was certainly original. Loved that fight both the anime and manga excelled in it. The chapter was huge and apparently there's still some pages missing...
I'm very curious about all the dialogue, which was a lot.
It seems this arc ratio will be 1 episode = 1 chapter. Manga has been steadily growing in status.
DainIronfoot wrote:I noticed that Black appears to use Instant transmission at one point while fighting Trunks. Interesting...
The Kamehameha also.
kinisking wrote:The manga fights are so fucking good. This might sound like a travesty but toyotorou might be better than Toriyama at choreography.
That's your opinion and all but... Are you crazy? Dragon Ball was amazing in that regard, maybe the latter stuff was worse, overall it was great.
I should probably wait for the translation, but geez, this chapter was bad. I mean, the manga became pretty bad since the U6 arc, but with the fantastic last chapter I thought it was going to turn around, but it seems if anything that it was just an outlier. Even the art seems to be slipping from Toyotaro. I mean, he's amazing at close-up panels and creating an atmosphere, but pretty mediocre at everything else. His fight coreography is also pretty bad, taking the worst from Z's anime and making it the stand out of his fights. I know people want him to become the storyboard artist for the anime, but that would only bring it down. I will wait for the translation, but right now, I am very unimpressed. The pacing was pretty bad too, but I can forgive that, being a monthly manga and all.
LightBing wrote:Trunks vs Black was certainly original. Loved that fight both the anime and manga excelled in it. The chapter was huge and apparently there's still some pages missing...
I'm very curious about all the dialogue, which was a lot.
It seems this arc ratio will be 1 episode = 1 chapter. Manga has been steadily growing in status.
DainIronfoot wrote:I noticed that Black appears to use Instant transmission at one point while fighting Trunks. Interesting...
The Kamehameha also.
kinisking wrote:The manga fights are so fucking good. This might sound like a travesty but toyotorou might be better than Toriyama at choreography.
That's your opinion and all but... Are you crazy? Dragon Ball was amazing in that regard, maybe the latter stuff was worse, overall it was great.
Maybe it's been too long since I read it or the anime is ruining me but I'm always blown away in ways I don't remember the manga ever doing. Him grabbing his sword strap to hit the sword out of blacks hands was creative af.
Jinzoningen MULE wrote: Maybe I should start making it a point not to comment when I'm not sure of something. Too many people know what they're talking about around here.
Disclaimer: I might get into a disagreement with you. Sometimes I might even get feisty about it. I'll never harbor negative feelings because of it though. I hope you feel the same way!
I made a bet with Alee9977 that Vegeta won't be beaten quickly by an opponent. If I lose, I switch my avatar to Vegeta getting beat by hit. If I win, he switches it to Vegeta holding Black by his hair. This will last a month.
kinisking wrote:The manga fights are so fucking good. This might sound like a travesty but toyotorou might be better than Toriyama at choreography.
I wouldn't go that far. Toriyama had many classic battles in DB/DBZ, and he's one of the best at showing impact from hits, making them look painful
GodVegetto91 wrote:Why the hell does Gojiitaaf say it's complete when there's missing pages! Darn the ones with the flasback to the kaioshin realm and such.
He did this last month as well. And refused to budge when people told him it's incomplete
kinisking wrote:Maybe it's been too long since I read it or the anime is ruining me but I'm always blown away in ways I don't remember the manga ever doing. Him grabbing his sword strap to hit the sword out of blacks hands was creative af.
Choreography and cinematography are Mr.Toriyama strong points, certainly not storytelling. Besides his ingenuity to write by the seat of his pants. From the top of my head: Goku vs Vegeta and Vegeta vs Recoome are examples of what distinguish Dragon Ball from other mangas.
This not to say Toyotarõ is bad, this fight is very creative. He excels when he does his own thing, not when he's fishing for callbacks. Which is about 30% of Super, if I can guess a figure.
It's best to simply not visit, refer to, or use sources that do not understand what they are talking about. If you stop visiting them, they'll eventually fade away.
:: [| Mike "VegettoEX" LaBrie |] ::
:: [| Kanzenshuu - Co-Founder/Administrator, Podcast Host, News Manager (note: our "job" titles are arbitrary and meaningless) |] ::
:: [| Website: January 1998 |] :: [| Podcast: November 2005 |] :: [| Fusion: April 2012 |] :: [| Wiki: 20XX |] ::
Pretty cool chapter. Can't wait to hear what information it gives us.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
LightBing wrote:Trunks vs Black was certainly original. Loved that fight both the anime and manga excelled in it. The chapter was huge and apparently there's still some pages missing...
I'm very curious about all the dialogue, which was a lot.
It seems this arc ratio will be 1 episode = 1 chapter. Manga has been steadily growing in status.
DainIronfoot wrote:I noticed that Black appears to use Instant transmission at one point while fighting Trunks. Interesting...
The Kamehameha also.
kinisking wrote:The manga fights are so fucking good. This might sound like a travesty but toyotorou might be better than Toriyama at choreography.
That's your opinion and all but... Are you crazy? Dragon Ball was amazing in that regard, maybe the latter stuff was worse, overall it was great.
Yeah, it keeps making me wonder how that body was taken or is being used.
Also, are we even sure that there are other pages missing? I don't recall any actual images on the French Website regarding the Flashback just some dialogue.
kinisking wrote:The manga fights are so fucking good. This might sound like a travesty but toyotorou might be better than Toriyama at choreography.
I wouldn't go that far. Toriyama had many classic battles in DB/DBZ, and he's one of the best at showing impact from hits, making them look painful
GodVegetto91 wrote:Why the hell does Gojiitaaf say it's complete when there's missing pages! Darn the ones with the flasback to the kaioshin realm and such.
He did this last month as well. And refused to budge when people told him it's incomplete
Yeah, the manga has started be scanned in 2 parts now where it's getting so big. There should be more than 39 pages.
[/spoiler]
Dragon Ball was amazing in that regard, maybe the latter stuff was worse, overall it was great.
