"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[dbzfan7]

Maybe it's some sort of hidden joke that those of Vegeta's line are not allowed to have Super Saiyan 3 . Kid Trunks fusing with Goten must have allowed him to bypass the rule, by having Goku's lineage mixed into Gotenks.

[kinisking]

I hate how absurdly strong Future Trunks has gotten, too. I mean, 10+ years of training will certainly yield great results, but for Goku to have use Super Saiyan God to defeat him? And before that, being on par with SSJ3 Goku as a SSJ2? This is the sort of power creep that has made power scaling in the Super anime a mess. Lets just hope this is the most extreme example the manga provides.

What did you expect him to use, Super Saiyan 4? Trunks was almost as strong as SS3 Goku, not SSG Goku. He used the form to one-shot him, and that was the next form after SS3.

The point is that Trunks shouldn't even be anywhere near as strong as Goku in any form.

Exactly. In what world does Gotenks <<<< God goku in BOG= base goku now<<< ss<<ss2<<<<ss3=ss2 trunks make sense?

[dbzfan7]

What did you expect him to use, Super Saiyan 4? Trunks was almost as strong as SS3 Goku, not SSG Goku. He used the form to one-shot him, and that was the next form after SS3.

The point is that Trunks shouldn't even be anywhere near as strong as Goku in any form.

Exactly. In what world does Gotenks <<<< God goku in BOG= base goku now<<< ss<<ss2<<<<ss3=ss2 trunks make sense?

Well the whole Gotenks thing didn't happen in the Manga. Even then with the anime you still have SSJ3 Gotenks<Base Goku<SSJ2 Goku/Trunks<SSJ3 Goku.

[Kagari]

What did you expect him to use, Super Saiyan 4? Trunks was almost as strong as SS3 Goku, not SSG Goku. He used the form to one-shot him, and that was the next form after SS3.

The point is that Trunks shouldn't even be anywhere near as strong as Goku in any form.

Exactly. In what world does Gotenks <<<< God goku in BOG= base goku now<<< ss<<ss2<<<<ss3=ss2 trunks make sense?

I don't think Toyotaro cares about power levels. He's just doing what seems cool at this point.

[Lord Beerus]

I really, REALLY dislike how strong Trunks is in the manga.

I hate how absurdly strong Future Trunks has gotten, too. I mean, 10+ years of training will certainly yield great results, but for Goku to have use Super Saiyan God to defeat him? And before that, being on par with SSJ3 Goku as a SSJ2? This is the sort of power creep that has made power scaling in the Super anime a mess. Lets just hope this is the most extreme example the manga provides.

What did you expect him to use, Super Saiyan 4? Trunks was almost as strong as SS3 Goku, not SSG Goku. He used the form to one-shot him, and that was the next form after SS3.

I honestly think Future Trunks should have just transformed into a SSJ3. This is the first time the franchise has ever portrayed a previous SSJ form being strong, or stronger, than the next one. The manga's power scaling is really starting go off the rails now. I mean, what's to say that SSJ3 now can't be stronger than Super Saiyan God with the proper training? SSJ2 Future Trunks being as strong as SSJ3 Goku ruins damn near everything about the SSJ transformation multipliers. You pretty much have to start from scratch or just assume Future Trunks basically achieved a new form in Full Power Super Saiyan 2, which make you wonder why Vegeta didn't achieve that given he had better training facilities and has been portrayed as better in training.

[LightBing]

I'm actually going to amend this to my post now, but I don't think there are any missing pages. The chapter runs from page 33 to 71, and all 39 pages were uploaded and accounted for. Unless there was a special chapter included in the magazine as well, I get the feeling the text about Whis and Beerus during Boo's rampage was fake...

That's disappointing if confirmed. The explanation was pretty good. I really don't get why people do these things.

Maybe it's some sort of hidden joke that those of Vegeta's line are not allowed to have Super Saiyan 3 . Kid Trunks fusing with Goten must have allowed him to bypass the rule, by having Goku's lineage mixed into Gotenks.

SSJ3 is a pretty flawed transformation. So that might not be a bad thing. I prefer if it stays almost exclusive to Goku, he does look great in it. The rest of the cast would look like they got a bunch of hair extensions.
I imagine that if Trunks even got SSJ3 he wouldn't use it. He would remember his mistakes of the past and prefer to improve/master SSJ2. You know, what Goku should've done...

[namekiansaiyan]

The anime definitely got the power levels right with this situation. I think Toyotaro might just be a huge Future Trunks fan.

[ArchedThunder]

Well the whole Gotenks thing didn't happen in the Manga. Even then with the anime you still have SSJ3 Gotenks<Base Goku<SSJ2 Goku/Trunks<SSJ3 Goku.

He was saying that God Goku is stronger than Gotenks and Goku absorbed the power of Super Saiyan God into him. Also nothing really implies that SSJ2 Goku and Trunks are equal in the anime, Trunks doesn't manage to do anything to Goku. That's like saying Trunks is as strong as Blue Vegeta because Vegeta blocked some blows from Trunks.

[Cipher]

The anime definitely got the power levels right with this situation. I think Toyotaro might just be a huge Future Trunks fan.

I rather like this, as it's more clear what kind of threat Black poses.

The manga seems to have taken a firm stance in Goku and Vegeta's base power (closer to their Boo arc levels). Now we have Trunks at around Super Saiyan 3, which Black some great deal stronger, which means a potential problem that the reader can immediately get behind.

In the anime, we have Goku some ???? level stronger than Trunks, and Black also some ???? level stronger than Trunks, and it's not clear whether he starts off as any kind of issue to Goku at all.

[dbzfan7]

Maybe it's some sort of hidden joke that those of Vegeta's line are not allowed to have Super Saiyan 3 . Kid Trunks fusing with Goten must have allowed him to bypass the rule, by having Goku's lineage mixed into Gotenks.

SSJ3 is a pretty flawed transformation. So that might not be a bad thing. I prefer if it stays almost exclusive to Goku, he does look great in it. The rest of the cast would look like they got a bunch of hair extensions.
I imagine that if Trunks even got SSJ3 he wouldn't use it. He would remember his mistakes of the past and prefer to improve/master SSJ2. You know, what Goku should've done...

Can't even say if that flaw is still around. Doesn't make much sense to have a vastly more powerful form be less draining than SSJ3. Heck by manga standards SSJB is arguably even more draining than SSJ3.

Well the whole Gotenks thing didn't happen in the Manga. Even then with the anime you still have SSJ3 Gotenks<Base Goku<SSJ2 Goku/Trunks<SSJ3 Goku.

He was saying that God Goku is stronger than Gotenks and Goku absorbed the power of Super Saiyan God into him. Also nothing really implies that SSJ2 Goku and Trunks are equal in the anime, Trunks doesn't manage to do anything to Goku. That's like saying Trunks is as strong as Blue Vegeta because Vegeta blocked some blows from Trunks.

I'm saying we already had this in the anime, so it's not that surprising to see it come back here.

Also I have them in the same tier. Majin Vegeta is in the same tier as SSJ2 Gohan, but could still kick his ass. Goku wouldn't go SSJ3 (or in this case God), if he could end the bout quickly without it. He can still win in a dragged out battle, but not stompingly easily.

[kinisking]

The point is that Trunks shouldn't even be anywhere near as strong as Goku in any form.

Exactly. In what world does Gotenks <<<< God goku in BOG= base goku now<<< ss<<ss2<<<<ss3=ss2 trunks make sense?

Well the whole Gotenks thing didn't happen in the Manga. Even then with the anime you still have SSJ3 Gotenks<Base Goku<SSJ2 Goku/Trunks<SSJ3 Goku.

But I assume final form freeza Vs Goku happened in the manga continuity so base Goku is still hella strong. And Goku clearly had the upper hand in ss2 form. You could see he was toying with him. Even if it was true, still better than the manga Haha.

[Pannaliciour]

Trunks beeing stronger okey, but stronger than ssj3 goku post whis training etc = shit

Btw in manga goku never absords god ki in base/ssj but in anime and the movie he did. Wich one is het now??

[ArchedThunder]

I'm saying we already had this in the anime, so it's not that surprising to see it come back here.

Also I have them in the same tier. Majin Vegeta is in the same tier as SSJ2 Gohan, but could still kick his ass. Goku wouldn't go SSJ3 (or in this case God), if he could end the bout quickly without it. He can still win in a dragged out battle, but not stompingly easily.

The point of the fight was to gauge Black's power, in the anime Goku goes SSJ3 because he's trying to gauge Black's strength, he was already having no problem against Trunks while SSJ2, in the manga Goku goes SSJ3 (and then God) because Trunks is matching him in power.

[dbzfan7]

I'm saying we already had this in the anime, so it's not that surprising to see it come back here.

Also I have them in the same tier. Majin Vegeta is in the same tier as SSJ2 Gohan, but could still kick his ass. Goku wouldn't go SSJ3 (or in this case God), if he could end the bout quickly without it. He can still win in a dragged out battle, but not stompingly easily.

The point of the fight was to gauge Black's power, in the anime Goku goes SSJ3 because he's trying to gauge Black's strength, in the manga Goku goes SSJ3 (and then God) because Trunks is matching him in power.

He started in SSJ2 to see where Trunks is as that's what Trunks became, then jumped up a level to show a bit more what he could do. Trunks was NOT one shot material in SSJ2. Beerus and Whis do nothing but applaud Trunks. He's billed to be able to tangle with Goku. If it was all about a power demonstration. He could just power up his ki to the max SSJ3, and punt Trunks to end the fight right there instead of the other tussle.

[ArchedThunder]

He started in SSJ2 to see where Trunks is as that's what Trunks became, then jumped up a level to show a bit more what he could do. Trunks was NOT one shot material in SSJ2. Beerus and Whis do nothing but applaud Trunks. He's billed to be able to tangle with Goku. If it was all about a power demonstration. He could just power up his ki to the max SSJ3, and punt Trunks to end the fight right there instead of the other tussle.

Beerus says Trunks is pretty good, that's it. Goku easily blocked every hit that Trunks threw at him and even grabbed his fists out of the air holding them in place, similar to how he had no problem holding Trunks' fist when threw a punch at him after waking up. Nothing implies that Trunks is a match for Goku in the anime, in fact they make it pretty clear that he isn't.

[dbzfan7]

He started in SSJ2 to see where Trunks is as that's what Trunks became, then jumped up a level to show a bit more what he could do. Trunks was NOT one shot material in SSJ2. Beerus and Whis do nothing but applaud Trunks. He's billed to be able to tangle with Goku. If it was all about a power demonstration. He could just power up his ki to the max SSJ3, and punt Trunks to end the fight right there instead of the other tussle.

Beerus says Trunks is pretty good, that's it. Goku easily blocked every hit that Trunks threw at him and even grabbed his fists out of the air holding them in place, similar to how he had no problem holding Trunks' fist when threw a punch at him after waking up. Nothing implies that Trunks is a match for Goku in the anime, in fact they make it pretty clear that he isn't.

They make it clear they are in the same realm. Otherwise Goku could just stand there and let Trunks tickle him. Nowhere do they show Goku could OHKO Trunks at any point til he powered up further. In fact if he's leagues above he wouldn't need to go SSJ2 either. The point of going SSJ2 before SSJ3, was to match Trunks current level. Hell if he was so much weaker than SSJ2 Goku, then what the hell is with being surprised with his sword being blocked? Goku already blocked everything else while sparring so that should be no surprise. Yet it's treated as such a big deal. Even in the manga using fingers to block the sword as an SSJ2 wasn't a big deal. Yet here it is. Trunks isn't even impressed by Goku or stunned until he goes SSJ3. Before that he's not at all surprised or taken back by Goku as an SSJ2. He never comments on Goku being amazing until he transformed into an SSJ3.

Like I said, Majin Vegeta is in the same realm as SSJ2 Gohan. But just because they're on the same realm doesn't mean he isn't stronger than Gohan. Hell Goku doesn't even go for any offense on Trunks and powers up immediately. He felt him out and then went for the finish. Just like how Freeza was in the same realm as Goku to not get destroyed by him, but he didn't have enough power to beat him. Or recently Goku is in Freeza realm of power, but not close enough to overpower him as he still has the power advantage.

[Cipher]

But I assume final form freeza Vs Goku happened in the manga continuity so base Goku is still hella strong. And Goku clearly had the upper hand in ss2 form. You could see he was toying with him. Even if it was true, still better than the manga Haha.

We actually don't get base Goku vs. Freeza in the manga, so it's free of the most major implications that Goku and Vegeta ever radically powered up their base forms.

As of this chapter, it seems the manga has taken a petty hard-lined approach that lower forms have approximately retained their Boo arc levels and that limits on each form exist to some extent. By design or by accident, with the omission of the Freeza arc (wonder if Toyotarou would've changed that fight or if he'd planned on taking this direction yet), it plays out perfectly well.

[SaiyanSoul]

This chapter practically confirms that Black is the God of Destruction for Universe 7 in Trunk's time line because Zamasu get's promoted to full time Kaioshin or kills Goasu and takes his place then either kills or seals the other remaining supreme kai's. Zamasu basically splits the evilness from his heart and give's it goku's body for it to manifest and become it's own entity. Black takes on the role of God of Destruction doing what Zamasu always wanted (Bring judgment to mortals) and Zamasua stays with his job as Kaioshin bringing a unique balance to their universe. If Zamasu dies then so does Black kinda like Kami and Piccolo.

[TheShadowEmperor8055]

Oi, oi, oi. Didn't know Goku Black could use Instant Transmission.

[Patrolman Jaco]

That doesn't really prove anything. They're just singular hits. Doesn't really give me a feel for choreography. I'll admit Toriyamas impacts seem stronger but I still think Trunks bouncing off the sword is more impressive than any of thr Toriyama things you pointed out.

God so many people sleep on Dragon Balls fight choreography, probably because of Toei's horrendous pacing, overuses of Ki spam and repeated frames.

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Also Goku using Kamahamaha with his feet as a form of jet propulsion during his fight with Piccolo at the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai, god I hope Toyotaro brings that back.